NATION

PASSWORD

White? Why not pay more?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1375
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kavagrad » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:50 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:Isn't this just your typical free-market price discrimination?

That being said, inb4 white ancaps and neoliberals flood this thread to oppose this, I guess.

Because black ancaps would wholeheartedly support this?

As I say, it's the use of a free market mechanism, so logically ancaps in general should support it, regardless of race, but I find it likely that somewhites will be choose to oppose this as it threatens their privilege.

And frankly, putting "racist white ancaps" would have only lead to a serious threadjack.
"Kava where are you? We need a purge specialist" - Dyl
"You'll always be a Feral Rat in my heart, Kava" - Podria
"It’s no fun being anti-Kava when he hates himself too" - Greylyn
Decorative Rubble Enthusiast

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:51 am

Granluras wrote:Okay, let’s do this: Sure let’s have some people pay a little extra based off of their wealth, thats good, give not just to blacks, but to any underpaid or unemployed individual.

They can then use this charity money to, through the assistance of some sort of affiliated employment agency, get employed, perfect their labor skills, and use the money they have left over and from their salaries to get better and more profitable jobs.

Eventually they can move up from weak lower class people to more properly funded middle class workers. That’s what America runs off of. Raising yourself up class-wise, capitalism, becoming greater, doing something with yourself, etc. **cough cough** American dream **cough cough**.

It sounds good, but if we gave people to option to pay, not just based on wealth, then that proposal would make more sense.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Kasynatia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 117
Founded: Dec 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kasynatia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:06 am

America was a white country until the 60's, and now everyone is trying to demonize more than half of the population and wanting them to pay up for things they have/had no part in. It's not our fault... none of this is.

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:07 am

Y'all.....
This was a social experiment, not something someone was actually doing to discriminate against white people! OP, you shoulda read the article before making this thread.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 16569
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:09 am

In principle it seems like a fair idea, so long as it is entirely voluntary; if people want to pay more out of solidarity with a marginalised group, then that's great and all power to them. In practice, however, I'm concerned that white patrons, regardless of their actual income bracket, might find themselves feeling pressured to pay the higher amount or else face social embarrassment and judgement from others. That's not really fair to lower-income white people. I personally would probably feel obliged in such a situation to pay the higher price, even though I'm not particularly well-off myself. I'm sure that's true for many people, including many who are in more dire straits than me. I wonder if the higher number of women agreeing to pay the higher price is maybe a consequence of women feeling more vulnerable than men, and thus less able to say no. By the same token, whilst I do applaud the non-white customers who turned down the excess money and offered to pay the same price as whites, I wonder if they did so on principle or because they wanted to avoid the social stigma attached to receiving hand-outs or being perceived as "poor."

All in all, it's a nice idea in theory, but when you dive into it there are a lot of issues with the approach taken here.
Anglican monarchist, paternalistic conservative and Christian existentialist.
"It is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard the masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on that road very soon."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo
⚜ GOD SAVE THE KING

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:33 am

If based on skincolour - no. Piss off.
If based on income (which may or may not correlate to skincolour in that area) - certainly. I like the pay it forward restaurants.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:52 am

It's a neat little "social experiment" that shines a light on a real socioeconomic problem. Which is good.

As an actual policy it would be at least weird, though.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:57 am

Liriena wrote:It's a neat little "social experiment" that shines a light on a real socioeconomic problem. Which is good.

As an actual policy it would be at least weird, though.

Liriena wrote:social experiment

Thank you! Someone understands.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Western-Ukraine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1163
Founded: Oct 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western-Ukraine » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:28 am

Disturbing concept that ought to be stopped. The colour of one's skin should not to be allowed to be used to discriminate against like this. Authorities have to step in to protect the common people from this catastrophe before more minds are corrupted.
Factbooks: National Politics
Region: U R N

Politics is a zero-sum game.

User avatar
Segral
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1764
Founded: Sep 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Segral » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:34 am

I wouldn't call it discrimination, and I understand the motive and message it's trying to get across, but...there's better ways to do this. There's a better way to fix racial disparities than introducing a racial disparity.
yea bro idk

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:36 am

Western-Ukraine wrote:Disturbing concept that ought to be stopped. The colour of one's skin should not to be allowed to be used to discriminate against like this. Authorities have to step in to protect the common people from this catastrophe before more minds are corrupted.

Calm down.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:41 am

“But I offer you an easy out. You can pay $12 or you can pay $30. What are you going to do?”

File a civil right lawsuit? :roll:
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:44 am

Aclion wrote:“But I offer you an easy out. You can pay $12 or you can pay $30. What are you going to do?”

File a civil right lawsuit? :roll:

Imagine setting that precedent on "social experiments". What would you do? would get banned.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Grinning Dragon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10384
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:47 am

Aclion wrote:“But I offer you an easy out. You can pay $12 or you can pay $30. What are you going to do?”

File a civil right lawsuit? :roll:

It was completely voluntary, with the side goal of wealth redistribution.
Roux Carre's food is meh anyways, and IMO isn't even worth being charged $12 let alone asking $30, the food is more inline with being an $6 or $8 meal.
Was first reported back in Feb 28th
Last edited by Grinning Dragon on Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13695
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:47 am

Cringe at the cringiness, and walk out. Just like outta this cringe worthy thread.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Imarssia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 103
Founded: Feb 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Imarssia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:51 am

People need to call it what it is: racism. If it involved asking someone to pay more "because they're black" [or asian, arab, hispanic, etc] then there would a massive outcry about this, as there should be no matter the race targeted, but when this happens to whites the issue seems to get swept under the rug. Then you see those who attempt to justify it by saying "well whites did bad stuff in the past" as if it's somehow every white persons fault for what others did.

An Asian island nation inhabited by Brits & Germans with a large minority of Japanese.
Features elements of Prussian culture. Politically aligned to the US, Australia, & Japan against China.
Very hot & Humid climate: Huge biodiversity.
A British dude in Uni studying Games development - Likes Programming - Fan of Stonks - Libright - I will not eat the bugs
Chiloshia wrote:The snek never sets on their empire

User avatar
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:53 am

Clearly racist, any action or rule or law based on just race is dumb and stupid.

If it's 12$ for the guy in front of you , I don't care if he/she is black, white, or pink with purple polka dots, it should be 12$ for everyone.

The end.
Last edited by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp on Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:55 am

Imarssia wrote:People need to call it what it is: racism. If it involved asking someone to pay more "because they're black" [or asian, arab, hispanic, etc] then there would a massive outcry about this, as there should be no matter the race targeted, but when this happens to whites the issue seems to get swept under the rug. Then you see those who attempt to justify it by saying "well whites did bad stuff in the past" as if it's somehow every white persons fault for what others did.

It's a minor, voluntary experiment aimed at highlighting something that is happening in that specific area right now.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:55 am

Liriena wrote:
Imarssia wrote:People need to call it what it is: racism. If it involved asking someone to pay more "because they're black" [or asian, arab, hispanic, etc] then there would a massive outcry about this, as there should be no matter the race targeted, but when this happens to whites the issue seems to get swept under the rug. Then you see those who attempt to justify it by saying "well whites did bad stuff in the past" as if it's somehow every white persons fault for what others did.

It's a minor, voluntary experiment aimed at highlighting something that is happening in that specific area right now.

Still a racist test.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:56 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Clearly racist, any action or rule or law based on just race is dumb and stupid.

If it's 12$ for the guy in front of you , I don't care if he/she is black, white, or pink with purple polka dots, it should be 12$ for everyone.

The end.

It's voluntary, and not particularly "racist" insofar as its sole purpose is highlighting a specific, observable socioeconomic problem in that area.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Western-Ukraine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1163
Founded: Oct 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western-Ukraine » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:57 am

Liriena wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Clearly racist, any action or rule or law based on just race is dumb and stupid.

If it's 12$ for the guy in front of you , I don't care if he/she is black, white, or pink with purple polka dots, it should be 12$ for everyone.

The end.

It's voluntary, and not particularly "racist" insofar as its sole purpose is highlighting a specific, observable socioeconomic problem in that area.

A noble goal doesn't change the fact that the so-called experiment is discriminating by ethnicity.
Factbooks: National Politics
Region: U R N

Politics is a zero-sum game.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:58 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Liriena wrote:It's a minor, voluntary experiment aimed at highlighting something that is happening in that specific area right now.

Still a racist test.

Not really. "White people in this area, on average, make far more than black people in this area" is not racist. It's an observable fact. Symbolically asking white customers to pay more (and giving them the option to refuse and pay the regular price instead) isn't really racist in such a context.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:59 am

Western-Ukraine wrote:
Liriena wrote:It's voluntary, and not particularly "racist" insofar as its sole purpose is highlighting a specific, observable socioeconomic problem in that area.

A noble goal doesn't change the fact that the so-called experiment is discriminating by ethnicity.

Discriminating by offering white customers the opportunity, which they can refuse, to participate in a symbolic gesture.

tfw white people even get the nicest form of racial discrimination
Last edited by Liriena on Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:01 am

Liriena wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Clearly racist, any action or rule or law based on just race is dumb and stupid.

If it's 12$ for the guy in front of you , I don't care if he/she is black, white, or pink with purple polka dots, it should be 12$ for everyone.

The end.

It's voluntary, and not particularly "racist" insofar as its sole purpose is highlighting a specific, observable socioeconomic problem in that area.

You still end up paying more for the same product then someone else or at the very least being offered.

I'm not disputing the facts, i'm saying that the end goal and idea is racist. Paying more based on skin color or paying less on skin color is stupid and should have no factor on a price.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:02 am

Liriena wrote:
Western-Ukraine wrote:A noble goal doesn't change the fact that the so-called experiment is discriminating by ethnicity.

Discriminating by offering white customers the opportunity, which they can refuse, to participate in a symbolic gesture.

tfw white people even get the nicest form of racial discrimination

I mean, good grief, the OP explicitly shows a very serious economic disparity between black and white people in that area... but your outrage is directed at the voluntary "social experiment" aimed at highlighting it. You're apocalyptically angry at the finger for pointing a bit rudely at a real problem.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: American Legionaries, Czechostan, Dantek, Elejamie, Fractalnavel, Juansonia, Kandorith, La Cocina del Bodhi, New Ciencia, Philjia, Port Caverton, Ryemarch, The Astral Mandate

Advertisement

Remove ads