White? Why not pay more?

[Albrenia]

It's hard to deny that it is racism. Not really the sort of thing to make me angry though, since it could be easily brushed aside and the regular price paid. It's like a 2 on the Hitlerometer.

[Bombadil]

Since the word is being bandied about so much..

noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

[Galloism]

Since the word is being bandied about so much..

noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b : a political or social system founded on racism
3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Would seem to fit number 3 - just barely. As he asked white people to pay more but not black people, which is a discrimination in action based along racial lines.

However, given it was ultimately voluntary, the racism was very limited.

[Srianna Gestane]

You know, when the police uses this exact same line of reasoning to pull over a car with random black people "because blacks are statistically more likely to be involved in crime" it is called "racial profiling" and people get very upset.

This example isn't comparable. It's more like if, at an airport, the airport security publicly told every 'white' passenger passing through that they needed to stop and be searched--with it plain to see that 'black' passengers were not being stopped, and then when those being discriminated against in this manner asked why, the security explained that, statistically, 'blacks' are more likely to be subjected to law enforcement attention.

Except, they'd need to do something to demonstrate just how much more likely, so the extent of the problem would be made clear. And it would be unacceptable for the government to do this, it's only appropriate for a private business. And private businesses don't have law enforcement powers, so it's really not comparable at all.

The guy could also just have asked EVERYONE if they wanted to pay extra (or less) - like all the restaurants with this "pay it forward" system do.
Or asked the people that arrived in a porsche wearing an Armani suit. Or - heck - a million things not related to ones skincolour.

But then how would he make the point that 'whites' earn more than twice as much money as 'blacks' in his city? He wouldn't have made the point at all, and people would be left unaware of the problem. They might not notice the income disparity is linked to race as strongly as it is, which was his entire point. It wasn't about the money. If he was going to do it every day, then yes, implementing a program that lets people choose how much to pay based on what they can afford would make sense.

[Bombadil]

Since the word is being bandied about so much..

noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b : a political or social system founded on racism
3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Would seem to fit number 3 - just barely. As he asked white people to pay more but not black people, which is a discrimination in action based along racial lines.

However, given it was ultimately voluntary, the racism was very limited.

Indeed, yet we're seeing a weirdly heightened sensitivity to racism from people who seem be disregarding the raised issue that, on average, the income disparity is more than double. If it was just a few percentage points I'd be 'well it's not really an issue given it falls within statistical difference' but more than double - $63K to $26K.. clearly there's an issue to highlight but in doing so.. OMG.. so racist!

[Galloism]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism



Would seem to fit number 3 - just barely. As he asked white people to pay more but not black people, which is a discrimination in action based along racial lines.

However, given it was ultimately voluntary, the racism was very limited.

Indeed, yet we're seeing a weirdly heightened sensitivity to racism from people who seem be disregarding the raised issue that, on average, the income disparity is more than double. If it was just a few percentage points I'd be 'well it's not really an issue given it falls within statistical difference' but more than double.. clearly there's an issue to highlight but in doing so.. OMG.. so racist!

Eh, it’s definitely racist. It’s just not a huge deal because it was voluntary.

Mostly though, I see it as a stupidly effective stunt to guilt the customers which will have no effect on the broader problem, because it doesn’t address what the root of the problem actually is.

It’s just a way to part fools with their money based on the premise of collective guilt. I respect that incidentally, as an accountant. Rule of acquisition #261: "A wealthy man can afford everything except a conscience."

However, I am rather disappointed that only 45% of men and 9% of women saw through it. We need to do more in school to help both men and women not get so easily taken in.

[Australian rePublic]

Indeed, yet we're seeing a weirdly heightened sensitivity to racism from people who seem be disregarding the raised issue that, on average, the income disparity is more than double. If it was just a few percentage points I'd be 'well it's not really an issue given it falls within statistical difference' but more than double.. clearly there's an issue to highlight but in doing so.. OMG.. so racist!

Eh, it’s definitely racist. It’s just not a huge deal because it was voluntary.

Mostly though, I see it as a stupidly effective stunt to guilt the customers which will have no effect on the broader problem, because it doesn’t address what the root of the problem actually is.

It’s just a way to part fools with their money based on the premise of collective guilt. I respect that incidentally, as an accountant. Rule of acquisition 261: "A wealthy man can afford everything except a conscience."

However, I am rather disappointed that only 45% of men and 9% of women saw through it. We need to do more in school to help both men and women not get so easily taken in.

Schools are part of the problem

[Srianna Gestane]

People spend $45 for a movie ticket, and all that is, is sitting in a box to get your emotions torqued. I think a lot of those people thought of this as a service, and chose to pay because they liked the experience, not just because it took advantage of their neuroses. (Though, maybe that's what action films do, too. I'm not a psychoanalyst.)

I'd probably have paid the $30, not because I'm above the poverty line (I'm not), not because I'm guilty (I'm worse off than they are, on average) but because I appreciate what the guy is doing and how he's doing it. This 'experiment' he did is almost like a work of art, and if I can't pay someone for something thought provoking like this, I have no business spending money on video games or spaghetti and meatballs.

[Galloism]

People spend $45 for a movie ticket, and all that is, is sitting in a box to get your emotions torqued. I think a lot of those people thought of this as a service, and chose to pay because they liked the experience, not just because it took advantage of their neuroses. (Though, maybe that's what action films do, too. I'm not a psychoanalyst.)

I'd probably have paid the $30, not because I'm above the poverty line (I'm not), not because I'm guilty (I'm worse off than they are, on average) but because I appreciate what the guy is doing and how he's doing it. This 'experiment' he did is almost like a work of art, and if I can't pay someone for something thought provoking like this, I have no business spending money on video games or spaghetti and meatballs.

Rule of acquisition #3: "Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to."

[Changtan]

On the topic of "Is It Racist?" - I don't think it is. Here's why:

- He's not forcefully making all his white clients pay the $30
- He's not refusing to serve white clients who only want to pay the $12

Seen a few comments about how "oh he didn't ask the black people to pay more" - the reason he did this was to “show, in principle, what the burden of cost looks like for people who have less resources.” Since black families in the area generally have less resources, why would he?

I think it's a pretty interesting idea, one that at the very least brings awareness to a fairly important social issue

Also, it's interesting that women were more willing to pay the $30 - I imagine part of that is empathy, what with gender pay gaps and stuff like that

[Australian rePublic]

People spend $45 for a movie ticket, and all that is, is sitting in a box to get your emotions torqued. I think a lot of those people thought of this as a service, and chose to pay because they liked the experience, not just because it took advantage of their neuroses. (Though, maybe that's what action films do, too. I'm not a psychoanalyst.)

I'd probably have paid the $30, not because I'm above the poverty line (I'm not), not because I'm guilty (I'm worse off than they are, on average) but because I appreciate what the guy is doing and how he's doing it. This 'experiment' he did is almost like a work of art, and if I can't pay someone for something thought provoking like this, I have no business spending money on video games or spaghetti and meatballs.

I'm really sorry to say this, but that kind of attitude is why you're below the poverty line. Spending money you don't have on garbage you don't need will get you nowhere financially, and spending more money than you need to on an item that costs less than you willing pay will only make matters worse. Again, I am sorry to say this. Perhaps you should re-examine your finances. I am NOT qualified to give professional financial advice

[Srianna Gestane]

That's the funny thing about Ferengi. They're hung up on hoarding and haggling to accumulate status, right next door to a civilization that can transmute anything into anything, and is so darn wealthy the only limits imposed on what they create for themselves are the questions 'is this too much?', 'should we tone it back a little?', and 'do you think this looks tacky?'...

If you can afford anything you could ever want to buy--which includes me even though I'm 'below the poverty line', with the significant exception of real estate--you're free to invest your money in causes you believe in, instead of things that'd acquire you more money.

[Australian rePublic]

On the topic of "Is It Racist?" - I don't think it is. Here's why:

- He's not forcefully making all his white clients pay the $30
- He's not refusing to serve white clients who only want to pay the $12

Seen a few comments about how "oh he didn't ask the black people to pay more" - the reason he did this was to “show, in principle, what the burden of cost looks like for people who have less resources.” Since black families in the area generally have less resources, why would he?

I think it's a pretty interesting idea, one that at the very least brings awareness to a fairly important social issue

Also, it's interesting that women were more willing to pay the $30 - I imagine part of that is empathy, what with gender pay gaps and stuff like that

It's idiotic to make assumptions about what resources people have. By making these kind of assumptions, he's basically saying that black people are poor and white people are rich. By that logic, he should examine everyone individually so that minimum wage white person doesn't pay more than a black millionaire...

[Bombadil]

Indeed, yet we're seeing a weirdly heightened sensitivity to racism from people who seem be disregarding the raised issue that, on average, the income disparity is more than double. If it was just a few percentage points I'd be 'well it's not really an issue given it falls within statistical difference' but more than double.. clearly there's an issue to highlight but in doing so.. OMG.. so racist!

Eh, it’s definitely racist. It’s just not a huge deal because it was voluntary.

Mostly though, I see it as a stupidly effective stunt to guilt the customers which will have no effect on the broader problem, because it doesn’t address what the root of the problem actually is.

It’s just a way to part fools with their money based on the premise of collective guilt. I respect that incidentally, as an accountant. Rule of acquisition #261: "A wealthy man can afford everything except a conscience."

However, I am rather disappointed that only 45% of men and 9% of women saw through it. We need to do more in school to help both men and women not get so easily taken in.

You really think his goal was just to make some extra money?

There's plenty of experiments that show if you're put in the shoes of the situation you think differently to when you're outside observing. So it's a perfectly reasonable means of highlighting the issue.

[Srianna Gestane]

I'm really sorry to say this, but that kind of attitude is why you're below the poverty line. Spending money you don't have on garbage you don't need will get you nowhere financially, and spending more money than you need to on an item that costs less than you willing pay will only make matters worse. Again, I am sorry to say this. Perhaps you should re-examine your finances. I am NOT qualified to give professional financial advice

No, the poverty line is an income level. How much money a person spends, and on what, has nothing to do with whether they're above or below the poverty line, only how much they earn. It's theoretically possible I could support myself with investments, but I'd consider that immoral--I believe people should earn money, not game the system for it.

Also, over a third of my income goes to savings, so it's not like I have a spending problem.

[Galloism]

On the topic of "Is It Racist?" - I don't think it is. Here's why:

- He's not forcefully making all his white clients pay the $30
- He's not refusing to serve white clients who only want to pay the $12

Seen a few comments about how "oh he didn't ask the black people to pay more" - the reason he did this was to “show, in principle, what the burden of cost looks like for people who have less resources.” Since black families in the area generally have less resources, why would he?

I think it's a pretty interesting idea, one that at the very least brings awareness to a fairly important social issue

Would it be racist if a bus driver asked, but didn’t force, Black people to sit in the back of the bus?

Also, it's interesting that women were more willing to pay the $30 - I imagine part of that is empathy, what with gender pay gaps and stuff like that

I mean, I’m very concerned that the women were more economically irrational than the men. It’s a small sample and shouldn’t be something we make broad generalizations on, but we need to make sure our consumers are rational, or the economy will give bad results.

[Bombadil]

On the topic of "Is It Racist?" - I don't think it is. Here's why:

- He's not forcefully making all his white clients pay the $30
- He's not refusing to serve white clients who only want to pay the $12

Seen a few comments about how "oh he didn't ask the black people to pay more" - the reason he did this was to “show, in principle, what the burden of cost looks like for people who have less resources.” Since black families in the area generally have less resources, why would he?

I think it's a pretty interesting idea, one that at the very least brings awareness to a fairly important social issue

Also, it's interesting that women were more willing to pay the $30 - I imagine part of that is empathy, what with gender pay gaps and stuff like that

It's idiotic to make assumptions about what resources people have. By making these kind of assumptions, he's basically saying that black people are poor and white people are rich. By that logic, he should examine everyone individually so that minimum wage white person doesn't pay more than a black millionaire...

He's simply making a point, not putting in a concrete policy.

[Galloism]

Eh, it’s definitely racist. It’s just not a huge deal because it was voluntary.

Mostly though, I see it as a stupidly effective stunt to guilt the customers which will have no effect on the broader problem, because it doesn’t address what the root of the problem actually is.

It’s just a way to part fools with their money based on the premise of collective guilt. I respect that incidentally, as an accountant. Rule of acquisition #261: "A wealthy man can afford everything except a conscience."

However, I am rather disappointed that only 45% of men and 9% of women saw through it. We need to do more in school to help both men and women not get so easily taken in.

You really think his goal was just to make some extra money?

He’s a businessman. Don’t businessmen try to make extra money?

There's plenty of experiments that show if you're put in the shoes of the situation you think differently to when you're outside observing. So it's a perfectly reasonable means of highlighting the issue.

Not really. Because it doesn’t put the white people in the black peoples’ shoes. It just tried to leverage collective racial guilt to make them too ashamed to say no.

If you want to put them in black peoples’ shoes, you need to actually have their families decimated by the ironically named justice system, robbing them of their fathers and brothers by public policy, and look at the actual causes of the disparity.

You guilted em for a quick buck. Congratulations.

[Srianna Gestane]

If you want to put them in black peoples’ shoes, you need to actually have their families decimated by the ironically named justice system, robbing them of their fathers and brothers by public policy, and look at the actual causes of the disparity.

That's just... not how human empathy works. Most of us are able to feel what someone else might feel without actually suffering what they've suffered, so long as we have some comprehension of the situation.

[Bombadil]

You really think his goal was just to make some extra money?

He’s a businessman. Don’t businessmen try to make extra money?

There's plenty of experiments that show if you're put in the shoes of the situation you think differently to when you're outside observing. So it's a perfectly reasonable means of highlighting the issue.

Not really. Because it doesn’t put the white people in the black peoples’ shoes. It just tried to leverage collective racial guilt to make them too ashamed to say no.

If you want to put them in black peoples’ shoes, you need to actually have their families decimated by the ironically named justice system, robbing them of their fathers and brothers by public policy, and look at the actual causes of the disparity.

You guilted em for a quick buck. Congratulations.

Actually I looked into his background, he's quite heavily involved in black awareness programs, and part of his mission as a chef is to move people on from what he calls euro-centric food, meat and two veg stuff.

I don't think he's just out for a quick buck.

[Galloism]

He’s a businessman. Don’t businessmen try to make extra money?



Not really. Because it doesn’t put the white people in the black peoples’ shoes. It just tried to leverage collective racial guilt to make them too ashamed to say no.

If you want to put them in black peoples’ shoes, you need to actually have their families decimated by the ironically named justice system, robbing them of their fathers and brothers by public policy, and look at the actual causes of the disparity.

You guilted em for a quick buck. Congratulations.

Actually I looked into his background, he's quite heavily involved in black awareness programs, and part of his mission as a chef is to move people on from what he calls euro-centric food, meat and two veg stuff.

I don't think he's just out for a quick buck.

I don’t think you understand capitalism.

That being said - you could be right. He might not just be a good businessman. He could be engaging in valueless virtue signaling and just get extra money coincidentally.

[Galloism]

If you want to put them in black peoples’ shoes, you need to actually have their families decimated by the ironically named justice system, robbing them of their fathers and brothers by public policy, and look at the actual causes of the disparity.

That's just... not how human empathy works. Most of us are able to feel what someone else might feel without actually suffering what they've suffered, so long as we have some comprehension of the situation.

This gives zero comprehension of the situation.

[Srianna Gestane]

This gives zero comprehension of the situation.

I don't think so. For most of those who paid the $30, I suspect the realization dawned on them what it feels like to buy food, for someone whose income is much less than theirs.

[Srianna Gestane]

That being said - you could be right. He might not just be a good businessman. He could be engaging in valueless virtue signaling and just get extra money coincidentally.

So... like Hollywood?

[Galloism]

This gives zero comprehension of the situation.

I don't think so. For most of those who paid the $30, I suspect the realization dawned on them what it feels like to buy food, for someone whose income is much less than theirs.

I doubt it. To me it would make me realize I need to pack a lunch instead of eating out, then cause me to wonder why these other people aren’t doing that.

Then I’d start doing the math on eating out vs packing a lunch and realize I could save a couple hundred a month, and probably almost never eat out again.

That being said - you could be right. He might not just be a good businessman. He could be engaging in valueless virtue signaling and just get extra money coincidentally.

So... like Hollywood?

Touché.