Is St. Patrick's Day "Cultural Appropriation"?

[Hatterleigh]

Uhh... What?

Apparently the solution to Irish-American people not liking stereotypical depictions of their culture is to leave America. We're just trying to find how deep that rabbit hole goes.

Except people don't do blackface anymore.. And there are literally no other black developed nations on earth so there's quite a big difference. But yeah I see your point.

[Yami-Chan]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

[Hatterleigh]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

I agree. Dumb crackaaaaaas!!!

[Len Hyet]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

Not only are you wrong, you're laughably wrong, and wrong in such a way that it betrays the fact that you are either deliberately ignorant or lying, but certainly trying to stir shit up.

[The Two Jerseys]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

Be careful not to cut yourself on that edge.

[Sovaal]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

No. That’s just a fucking moronic statement.

[Hammer Britannia]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

Same thing goes with the Japanese

Everything they have was stolen from the Chinese and Koreans :^)

[Liriena]

OP is blatantly preaching to the choir with the whole "du leftz finks hwite peplz baaad cuz dreds" conversation starter, so OP immediately loses all respect points and won't be getting the time of day from me.

That being said... is St. Patrick's Day "cultural appropriation"? Well... kinda. St. Patrick's Day has been widely appropriated, vacated of its original meaning and turned into a corporate-sponsored day of drunkenness and bad imitations of Irish accents (not that there's anything wrong with drunkenness, though). When millions of people without any degree of Irish heritage or even a shred of curiosity for Irish history put on green clothing and drink beer on St. Patrick's Day, something's off.

Now, one caveat I would like to add is that cultural appropriation is not necessarily harmful or a moral failing. However, it can certainly be harmful and immoral when said cultural appropriation involves commodification and historical erasure, specially when what's being commodified and historically erased is a day originally dedicated to a historic political, social and/or cultural struggle.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

OP is blatantly preaching to the choir with the whole "du leftz finks hwite peplz baaad cuz dreds" conversation starter, so OP immediately loses all respect points and won't be getting the time of day from me.

That being said... is St. Patrick's Day "cultural appropriation"? Well... kinda. St. Patrick's Day has been widely appropriated, vacated of its original meaning and turned into a corporate-sponsored day of drunkenness and bad imitations of Irish accents (not that there's anything wrong with drunkenness, though). When millions of people without any degree of Irish heritage or even a shred of curiosity for Irish history put on green clothing and drink beer on St. Patrick's Day, something's off.

Now, one caveat I would like to add is that cultural appropriation is not necessarily harmful or a moral failing. However, it can certainly be harmful and immoral when said cultural appropriation involves commodification and historical erasure, specially when what's being commodified and historically erased is a day originally dedicated to a historic political, social and/or cultural struggle.

I don't think I imitated an Irish accent last night. I...really don't think I did. Well...I guess I wouldn't know for sure.
I'm half-Irish though so my imitation is at least passable.

[Great Kauthar]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

White Americans have no culture, actual Europeans do.

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

Same thing goes with the Japanese

Everything they have was stolen from the Chinese and Koreans :^)

This is equally as stupid as the original statement. While China and Korea did influence Japan greatly, it's culture is distinct. During the Nara and Heian periods, while the country was politically influenced by China, a vibrant Japanese culture was birthed. The Heian period of Japan alone provided some of the greatest literary masterpieces in world history, such as the Genji Monogatari, the Makura no Sōshi, and of course the Tales of Ise.

[Liriena]

Tales of Ise.

Almost finished reading this one. 'tis good.

[Great Kauthar]

Tales of Ise.

Almost finished reading this one. 'tis good.

It really is. It was the first uta monogatari I read and has introduced me into a whole new subgenre of literature I adore.

[Cekoviu]

No because white people have no culture. Everything they have was stolen from an oppressed group.

If you group all white people together, of course they don't have a culture, but neither does any other race.

[Hatterleigh]

OP is blatantly preaching to the choir with the whole "du leftz finks hwite peplz baaad cuz dreds" conversation starter, so OP immediately loses all respect points and won't be getting the time of day from me.

That being said... is St. Patrick's Day "cultural appropriation"? Well... kinda. St. Patrick's Day has been widely appropriated, vacated of its original meaning and turned into a corporate-sponsored day of drunkenness and bad imitations of Irish accents (not that there's anything wrong with drunkenness, though). When millions of people without any degree of Irish heritage or even a shred of curiosity for Irish history put on green clothing and drink beer on St. Patrick's Day, something's off.

Now, one caveat I would like to add is that cultural appropriation is not necessarily harmful or a moral failing. However, it can certainly be harmful and immoral when said cultural appropriation involves commodification and historical erasure, specially when what's being commodified and historically erased is a day originally dedicated to a historic political, social and/or cultural struggle.

Can you at least try to not be incredibly condescending? I realize that the whole "left hates whitey because cultural appropriation" argument is often overused, but it's completely relevant to this situation.

Anyways, I don't see how turning a holiday meant for respecting a saint into a holiday centered around drunkenness, irish stereotypes, american consumerism, and sinful activities is less insulting than most forms of common cultural appropriation you guys talk about. I rarely see you lefties talk about anything that is still important to a political or social struggle as culturally appropriative, as you folks are usually too busy considering dances, music, and costumes on the list of insensitive ideas. I know this sounds like some sort of "sjw rekt" argument but it's completely true. And don't give me lip about how "B-but muh oppressive past!" Because the irish were treated poorly in america for a long time as well. There were many areas where the irishmen was seen as inferior to black people. Hell, even in schools the anti-irish sentiment in America is usually either brushed over or not even mentioned, which is funny because during the first wave or irish immigrants many americans literally thought Irish people were subhuman.

[Cetacea]

That unironically is an interesting idea. How do you treat a culture in which appropriating other cultures is a legitimate tradition?

I had an interesting discussion about pizza the other day. What is pizza? One might argue it's an Italian food but it's a global phenomenon due to America. Even so, what is pizza? Thin crust, thick crust, cheese filled crust? Apparently there's a kind of D.O.C thing where pizza has to be a particular kind of mozzarella and tomato from a certain region.

The idea of pizza being a defined thing is tough, is St. Patrick's Day an Irish thing or something made global by the US?

Pizza is truely an interesting phenomena due to its Tomato base (as is Pasta Sauce in general).
Tomato originates in South America and got to Europe from Mexico, so the modern Pizza is indeed American

[Liriena]

OP is blatantly preaching to the choir with the whole "du leftz finks hwite peplz baaad cuz dreds" conversation starter, so OP immediately loses all respect points and won't be getting the time of day from me.

That being said... is St. Patrick's Day "cultural appropriation"? Well... kinda. St. Patrick's Day has been widely appropriated, vacated of its original meaning and turned into a corporate-sponsored day of drunkenness and bad imitations of Irish accents (not that there's anything wrong with drunkenness, though). When millions of people without any degree of Irish heritage or even a shred of curiosity for Irish history put on green clothing and drink beer on St. Patrick's Day, something's off.

Now, one caveat I would like to add is that cultural appropriation is not necessarily harmful or a moral failing. However, it can certainly be harmful and immoral when said cultural appropriation involves commodification and historical erasure, specially when what's being commodified and historically erased is a day originally dedicated to a historic political, social and/or cultural struggle.

Can you at least try to not be incredibly condescending? I realize that the whole "left hates whitey because cultural appropriation" argument is often overused, but it's completely relevant to this situation.

Anyways, I don't see how turning a holiday meant for respecting a saint into a holiday centered around drunkenness, irish stereotypes, american consumerism, and sinful activities is less insulting than most forms of common cultural appropriation you guys talk about. I rarely see you lefties talk about anything that is still important to a political or social struggle as culturally appropriative, as you folks are usually too busy considering dances, music, and costumes on the list of insensitive ideas. I know this sounds like some sort of "sjw rekt" argument but it's completely true. And don't give me lip about how "B-but muh oppressive past!" Because the irish were treated poorly in america for a long time as well. There were many areas where the irishmen was seen as inferior to black people. Hell, even in schools the anti-irish sentiment in America is usually either brushed over or not even mentioned, which is funny because during the first wave or irish immigrants many americans literally thought Irish people were subhuman.

There you go again, preaching to the choir, not actually engaging me, making broad, generalizing assumptions about my views and responding to arguments I did not make.

Get a blog.

[Cill Airne]

OP is blatantly preaching to the choir with the whole "du leftz finks hwite peplz baaad cuz dreds" conversation starter, so OP immediately loses all respect points and won't be getting the time of day from me.

That being said... is St. Patrick's Day "cultural appropriation"? Well... kinda. St. Patrick's Day has been widely appropriated, vacated of its original meaning and turned into a corporate-sponsored day of drunkenness and bad imitations of Irish accents (not that there's anything wrong with drunkenness, though). When millions of people without any degree of Irish heritage or even a shred of curiosity for Irish history put on green clothing and drink beer on St. Patrick's Day, something's off.

Now, one caveat I would like to add is that cultural appropriation is not necessarily harmful or a moral failing. However, it can certainly be harmful and immoral when said cultural appropriation involves commodification and historical erasure, specially when what's being commodified and historically erased is a day originally dedicated to a historic political, social and/or cultural struggle.

Can you at least try to not be incredibly condescending? I realize that the whole "left hates whitey because cultural appropriation" argument is often overused, but it's completely relevant to this situation.

Anyways, I don't see how turning a holiday meant for respecting a saint into a holiday centered around drunkenness, irish stereotypes, american consumerism, and sinful activities is less insulting than most forms of common cultural appropriation you guys talk about. I rarely see you lefties talk about anything that is still important to a political or social struggle as culturally appropriative, as you folks are usually too busy considering dances, music, and costumes on the list of insensitive ideas. I know this sounds like some sort of "sjw rekt" argument but it's completely true. And don't give me lip about how "B-but muh oppressive past!" Because the irish were treated poorly in america for a long time as well. There were many areas where the irishmen was seen as inferior to black people. Hell, even in schools the anti-irish sentiment in America is usually either brushed over or not even mentioned, which is funny because during the first wave or irish immigrants many americans literally thought Irish people were subhuman.

[Liriena]

I had an interesting discussion about pizza the other day. What is pizza? One might argue it's an Italian food but it's a global phenomenon due to America. Even so, what is pizza? Thin crust, thick crust, cheese filled crust? Apparently there's a kind of D.O.C thing where pizza has to be a particular kind of mozzarella and tomato from a certain region.

The idea of pizza being a defined thing is tough, is St. Patrick's Day an Irish thing or something made global by the US?

Pizza is truely an interesting phenomena due to its Tomato base (as is Pasta Sauce in general).
Tomato originates in South America and got to Europe from Mexico, so the modern Pizza is indeed American

I think pizza is an example of cultural appropriation gone wild in the best way. The number of varieties of pizza that have been invented outside of Italy is awesome.

[Zanera]

Cultural Appropriation is bullshit in general

Because, if it were true, then every single man, woman, and others would be Culturally Appropriating from somebody.

Burgers are German, Most pasta is Italian, Democracy is Greek, Ethiopian is Ethiopian, the First Civilizations were Sumerians, Chinese inventions, Proto-Slavic Horses, Fire from the Homo erectus, Christianity from the Jews, the list goes on.

Woah woah woah woah woah, you can't make a claim that burgers aren't American without backing it up.

[Great Pannonia]

If people on nationstates are so worried about cultureral appropriation, they should stop playing it. If they complain about everyone dressing up like an Irish stereotype, then they should stop playing as a nation that has nothing to do with their culture because they are being hypocritical.

[Irona]

I’ve never been convinced cultural appropriation is a bad thing. Just look at Brazil, or Argentina. It helps reduce discrimination and makes minority groups a core part of the national identity.

[Sovaal]

I’ve never been convinced cultural appropriation is a bad thing. Just look at Brazil, or Argentina. It helps reduce discrimination and makes minority groups a core part of the national identity.

Eh, I tho k it’s more of a case by case basis. I don’t see how most cases are bad, but I can get as to why people would see, say, drunk college white girls prancing around in stereotypical Native American clothes and such.

[The Grene Knyght]

OP is blatantly preaching to the choir with the whole "du leftz finks hwite peplz baaad cuz dreds" conversation starter, so OP immediately loses all respect points and won't be getting the time of day from me.

That being said... is St. Patrick's Day "cultural appropriation"? Well... kinda. St. Patrick's Day has been widely appropriated, vacated of its original meaning and turned into a corporate-sponsored day of drunkenness and bad imitations of Irish accents (not that there's anything wrong with drunkenness, though). When millions of people without any degree of Irish heritage or even a shred of curiosity for Irish history put on green clothing and drink beer on St. Patrick's Day, something's off.

Now, one caveat I would like to add is that cultural appropriation is not necessarily harmful or a moral failing. However, it can certainly be harmful and immoral when said cultural appropriation involves commodification and historical erasure, specially when what's being commodified and historically erased is a day originally dedicated to a historic political, social and/or cultural struggle.

Can you at least try to not be incredibly condescending? I realize that the whole "left hates whitey because cultural appropriation" argument is often overused, but it's completely relevant to this situation.

Anyways, I don't see how turning a holiday meant for respecting a saint into a holiday centered around drunkenness, irish stereotypes, american consumerism, and sinful activities is less insulting than most forms of common cultural appropriation you guys talk about. I rarely see you lefties talk about anything that is still important to a political or social struggle as culturally appropriative, as you folks are usually too busy considering dances, music, and costumes on the list of insensitive ideas. I know this sounds like some sort of "sjw rekt" argument but it's completely true. And don't give me lip about how "B-but muh oppressive past!" Because the irish were treated poorly in america for a long time as well. There were many areas where the irishmen was seen as inferior to black people. Hell, even in schools the anti-irish sentiment in America is usually either brushed over or not even mentioned, which is funny because during the first wave or irish immigrants many americans literally thought Irish people were subhuman.

If you don't want to be condescended to, don't make posts worthy of condescension, which includes, imo, straw-manning, idiotic and needless flaming (Like with "'"B-but muh oppressive past!'"), simplistic and sweeping arguments, or doubling down on the behaviour that had people condescending to you in the first place (i.e. all of the above).

[Liriena]

I’ve never been convinced cultural appropriation is a bad thing. Just look at Brazil, or Argentina. It helps reduce discrimination and makes minority groups a core part of the national identity.

Eh, I tho k it’s more of a case by case basis. I don’t see how most cases are bad, but I can get as to why people would see, say, drunk college white girls prancing around in stereotypical Native American clothes and such.

There's a distinction to be made between egalitarian cultural exchange and cultural exchange in a context of power disparity (the latter being what cultural appropriation usually stands for, academically speaking).

[Abraxim]

Can't people just enjoy this relatively minor holiday without bringing identity politics into it? Why is the left sour about literally anything remotely enjoyable?