UK Rape Gang scandal, up to 1000 victims.

[Ostroeuropa]

is dangerous.
It doesn't completely rob you of your ability to say no to sex and turn you into a whore.

Of course it doesn't. But alcohol most certainly does inhibit one's judgement and degrade their ability to give proper consent to just about anything, especially sexual activity. The ability of alcohol to lower one's inhibitions is rather well documented throughout history. Surely you don't deny that it is contributing to the situations we witness on college campuses?

College campuses are safer than the wider population, they're merely louder and more organized on this topic.
So no, sorry, it sounds like you've got shit exactly backwards.

Probably because younger folk are more aware of issues like consent.

[Napkiraly]

That doesn't justify the idea that Western women are a go-go for a good ol' gang rape.

Did I say that? Like, did I say that anywhere? Rape is prohibited in Islam.

So you wouldn't mind if the West trashed the culture of these issue places to hell and back on our own turf and gave a stern "assimilate or leave" message?

[Ostroeuropa]

That doesn't justify the idea that Western women are a go-go for a good ol' gang rape.

Did I say that? Like, did I say that anywhere? Rape is prohibited in Islam.

The issue is muslims viewing it as not rape because western women are whores who are up for anything.
That view stems from the dysfunctional view of sex and consent Islam cultivates that one is either chaste or a whore and a sinner.
Some may be different and be more nuanced in their teaching and understanding.

But the trend is there. Denying or ignoring it rather than confronting it and dealing with it merely because it's uncomfortable for some/many muslims to admit their community is ethically in the wrong over something is perpetuating mistreatment and prejudice of others.

[Aillyria]

A marriage.

She was, at most, 13 when Mohammed had sex with her.

That's not marriage, that's pedophilia.

By modern standards, 600s Arabia wasn't modern progressive Western in culture. The idea of Aisha (ra) being that young are questionable in the first place, as it depends on taking the hadith at face value, which is unadvisable.

[Mujahidah]

Did I say that? Like, did I say that anywhere? Rape is prohibited in Islam.

So you wouldn't mind if the West trashed the culture of these issue places to hell and back on our own turf and gave a stern "assimilate or leave" message?

Muslims aren't asking for Britain to become a Muslim country. Muslims are asking simply to be allowed to be Muslim (something which, France, for instance, makes obscenely difficult).

[Kubumba Tribe]

Did I say that? Like, did I say that anywhere? Rape is prohibited in Islam.

The issue is muslims viewing it as not rape because western women are whores who are up for anything.
That view stems from the dysfunctional view of sex and consent Islam cultivates that one is either chaste or a whore and a sinner.
Some may be different and be more nuanced in their teaching and understanding.

But the trend is there.

That is effing rape, ok! Rape is rape, period, which is haram, period!

[Napkiraly]

So you wouldn't mind if the West trashed the culture of these issue places to hell and back on our own turf and gave a stern "assimilate or leave" message?

Muslims aren't asking for Britain to become a Muslim country. Muslims are asking simply to be allowed to be Muslim (something which, France, for instance, makes obscenely difficult).

I didn't say they couldn't be Muslim. I've been rather clear in saying that it's a problem primarily among certain cultural groups, with the issue not nearly among other ones even if they are majority Muslim as well. I'm saying any ounce of Pakistan other than some culinary dishes is prohibited.

[Kubumba Tribe]

So you wouldn't mind if the West trashed the culture of these issue places to hell and back on our own turf and gave a stern "assimilate or leave" message?

Muslims aren't asking for Britain to become a Muslim country. Muslims are asking simply to be allowed to be Muslim (something which, France, for instance, makes obscenely difficult).

But da'wah nice tho. It's a good thing when someone converts into Al-Islam.

[Vassenor]

Muslims aren't asking for Britain to become a Muslim country. Muslims are asking simply to be allowed to be Muslim (something which, France, for instance, makes obscenely difficult).

But da'wah nice tho. It's a good thing when someone converts into Al-Islam.

What happened to the whole "Islam cannot be compelled upon a person" thing?

[Ostroeuropa]

The issue is muslims viewing it as not rape because western women are whores who are up for anything.
That view stems from the dysfunctional view of sex and consent Islam cultivates that one is either chaste or a whore and a sinner.
Some may be different and be more nuanced in their teaching and understanding.

But the trend is there.

That is effing rape, ok! Rape is rape, period, which is haram, period!

You may say that, but not enough Muslims are. Or enough aren't listening.
Next time you see someone preaching about the evils of liquor, take a look around and think about if any of your peers there will walk away thinking these things about western women.

If your preacher says rape is rape and wrong, but simultaneously that alcohol makes people incapable of controlling their sexual desires or saying no, what does that amount to?

These rape gangs were tolerated. These people felt confident enough that they could go around recruiting their peers to form gangs to rape people.
That is the extent of the rot in these communities.

If you were to try and round up a posse to go raping, how many of your friends do you think would be up for it?
What would it say about where you lived and their attitudes that you thought you could get away with that, and in fact did?

The culture in these communities is broken and anti-western, they have to be dealt with.
I felt exactly the same about the catholic church, by the way. I argued for the pope to be detained and questioned.

[Aillyria]

Muslims aren't asking for Britain to become a Muslim country. Muslims are asking simply to be allowed to be Muslim (something which, France, for instance, makes obscenely difficult).

But da'wah nice tho. It's a good thing when someone converts into Al-Islam.

Only when it is of their own free will, inshallah.

[Kubumba Tribe]

But da'wah nice tho. It's a good thing when someone converts into Al-Islam.

What happened to the whole "Islam cannot be compelled upon a person" thing?

I said "da'wah" not "convert or die".

[Asinus Canadiensis]

She was, at most, 13 when Mohammed had sex with her.

That's not marriage, that's pedophilia.

By modern standards, 600s Arabia wasn't modern progressive Western in culture. The idea of Aisha (ra) being that young are questionable in the first place, as it depends on taking the hadith and face value, which is unadvisable.

Frankly, I'm being pretty generous in saying that she was 13. Most of Mohammed's early biographers estimated her age as being between ten and twelve when her marriage was consummated.

Granted, there's a certain bit of leeway that can be given to cultural relevance and the circumstances of the timeframe in question, but chalking it up to merely those factors is really missing the point, because by that logic, the Aztecs could get a pass for all the people they brutally murdered on their sacrificial altars since they thought doing otherwise would cause the world to end.

Point being, Mohammed's pedophilia is a black mark on his record. It's not reputation shattering given the context, no, but it's sufficient to call into question the typical Islamic attitude of him being some kind of perfect idealization of humanity. He very clearly was not.

[Liriena]

A marriage.

She was, at most, 13 when Mohammed had sex with her.

That's not marriage, that's pedophilia.

José de San Martín married a fourteen-year-old, but we don't blame him or our idolization of him as a national hero for our child molestation problems today.

[Asinus Canadiensis]

She was, at most, 13 when Mohammed had sex with her.

That's not marriage, that's pedophilia.

José de San Martín married a fourteen-year-old, but we don't blame him or our idolization of him as a national hero for our child molestation problems today.

He also typically isn't lauded for his conduct in his private life as being something others should strive for, so... kind of missing the point.

[Ostroeuropa]

That is effing rape, ok! Rape is rape, period, which is haram, period!

You may say that, but not enough Muslims are. Or enough aren't listening.
Next time you see someone preaching about the evils of liquor, take a look around and think about if any of your peers there will walk away thinking these things about western women.

If your preacher says rape is rape and wrong, but simultaneously that alcohol makes people incapable of controlling their sexual desires or saying no, what does that amount to?

These rape gangs were tolerated. These people felt confident enough that they could go around recruiting their peers to form gangs to rape people.
That is the extent of the rot in these communities.

If you were to try and round up a posse to go raping, how many of your friends do you think would be up for it?
What would it say about where you lived and their attitudes that you thought you could get away with that, and in fact did?

The culture in these communities is broken and anti-western, they have to be dealt with.
I felt exactly the same about the catholic church, by the way. I argued for the pope to be detained and questioned.

I mean shit.
I argued to bring back fucking mccarthyism to deal with Holywood, and to drag each and every one of the fuckers before a senate committe and get them to say on the damn record how much they knew, and jail the ones found to be liars for perjury, while condemning, ridiculing, and vilifying the ones who admitted they knew what was going on and trashing their careers.

This isn't me being anti-muslim.
I just cannot fucking stand rape culture.
The issue is not just the rapists. It's the people who tolerated it. The culture that fostered it. It all needs to be dealt with.

[Gravlen]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't something similar to this happen a few years ago where English police attempted to cover up immigrant tapes in some town?

It did. The Rotherham scandal. This is showing that nothing has changed.

Does it? How so? I mean, with the new revelations dating back 30 years, Operation Chalice taking place in 2013, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse being launched recently, and the Home Office and Ofsted conducting inspections to see how agencies in Telford are working to tackle the issue?

[Ostroeuropa]

It did. The Rotherham scandal. This is showing that nothing has changed.

Does it? How so? I mean, with the new revelations dating back 30 years, Operation Chalice taking place in 2013, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse being launched recently, and the Home Office and Ofsted conducting inspections to see how agencies in Telford are working to tackle the issue?

Fair point, i'll clarify.
The efforts to uncover the problem are making progress in exposing the problem and dealing with it, however, the Rotherham scandal and its prevalence in the media, as well as the knowledge that there were investigations underway, did nothing to prompt Telford police to come forward of their own volition or reform in the meantime.
The police have not changed, they are simply under investigation. There has been no institutional reform, unless we are to believe that these investigations into police misconduct on this issue will exist in perpetuity as a measure to combat the problem.

[Gravlen]

Who's "you people"?

What's the fault in that?

Again, because they supported bringing them here undocumented and bashed anyone who warned them of the consequences for doing so.

"Undocumented"? Who are you talking about?

[Fartsniffage]

Does it? How so? I mean, with the new revelations dating back 30 years, Operation Chalice taking place in 2013, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse being launched recently, and the Home Office and Ofsted conducting inspections to see how agencies in Telford are working to tackle the issue?

Fair point, i'll clarify.
The efforts to uncover the problem are making progress in exposing the problem and dealing with it, however, the Rotherham scandal and its prevalence in the media, as well as the knowledge that there were investigations underway, did nothing to prompt Telford police to come forward of their own volition or reform in the meantime.
The police have not changed, they are simply under investigation. There has been no institutional reform, unless we are to believe that these investigations into police misconduct on this issue will exist in perpetuity as a measure to combat the problem.

How does an institution reform when it's barely making ends meet doing what it already does? Reform costs money and the police are fucking broke.

[Liriena]

Again, because they supported bringing them here undocumented and bashed anyone who warned them of the consequences for doing so.

"Undocumented"? Who are you talking about?

Isn't it amazing when someone is so consumed by ideology that they just reflexively lump everyone they disagree with into one amorphous blob, and start incoherently mixing up places and groups?

[Albrenia]

That's a pretty long bow you're pulling there, dude.

Supporting immigration is not the same as supporting the actions of these fucking monsters who attack children.

No it isn’t. But leftists letting undocumented refugees in and ignoring our warnings has lead to this. And then I see people like Vassenor trying to lay this shit on us when it blows up in their face as usual...

I think even most of us lefties want immigration to have proper documentation and procedure, with serious criminals and the like getting a great big DENIED stamp. At least I bloody hope so.

I want compassion, not outright stupidity, in immigration.

[Vassenor]

Again, because they supported bringing them here undocumented and bashed anyone who warned them of the consequences for doing so.

"Undocumented"? Who are you talking about?

Apparently there are no Muslims who came in through the normal immigration channels or, heaven forbid, were born in the UK.

[Kramanica]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't something similar to this happen a few years ago where English police attempted to cover up immigrant tapes in some town?

It did. The Rotherham scandal. This is showing that nothing has changed.

Don't know if it's general incompetent or political pressure.

Whatever it is it needs to end.

[Kramanica]

"Undocumented"? Who are you talking about?

Isn't it amazing when someone is so consumed by ideology that they just reflexively lump everyone they disagree with into one amorphous blob, and start incoherently mixing up places and groups?

You mean like you do with right-wingers?