Do you Nuke back?

[The Transhuman Union]

Vsauce music plays
No food = check.

Food doesn't vanish when there's a nuclear exchange.

Contaminated water = Good luck getting water.

What is water filtration?

Never seeing the sunlight in your life and getting a good amount of medical implications of it = check.

A nuclear exchange between the US and Russia won't necessarily blot out the sun everywhere forever.

BUT MAH NUKA COLA!
Also, they would probably nuke each other because y'know, politicians are not necessarily Einsteins or Da Vinci's. Why don't just kill your rival before you die?

World leaders aren't cartoon villains that hate each other just because. They have specific points of disagreement and opposing beliefs. If they believe that everyone everywhere is going to die then there's no point to their rivalry any more. North Korea can't take over the rest of the Korean peninsula if they're all dead, so why bother?

I'm not the person to ask for ethics and human nature, but people would, in my opinion, do weird things when the end of the world comes.
Specific points of disagreeement and opposing beliefs are no longer a thing at the final day of human life on Earth.
1. Food - Where it does come from? Magic?
2. Water - Filters? Good luck finding those because a) you're traversing the fallout and b) it won't help that much. We're not nearly as equipped as we were in the Cold War. Filters are not 100% reliable.
3. Sun - That's not the problem. You're not going outside because of the radiation, not necessarily the Sun (although that hurts as well).

[Ifreann]

Objectively speaking, there's really no good reason to nuke back, what do you gain from ruining a huge area of land and killing that number of people? If you have no chance of survival, why ruin another part of the world's chance if there's no way it could save you. From a utilitarian standpoint, it's a net loss for the world, and an objectively moral way to view a president's duty is to minimize unnecessary losses.

Letting Russia keep its nuclear capabilities after it nuked the US for no reason at all is not a very good idea. How can you be sure that they'll stop their nuking spree with you?

[Rubyna]

I think it has to do with upholding the legitimacy of mutually assured destruction. If other countries with nukes know for certain that we will nuke them back if they launch nuclear missiles at us, they will not attempt a strike. They know that will be the end of their country as well. Mutually assured destruction deters nuclear war and the legitimacy and seriousness of it must be upheld. The immoral move is to soften it and put millions in danger.

So it's not about an eye for an eye or trying to act tough, at least not fundamentally, though I am sure nuclear leaders use their nuclear capacity to make it seem that way (@Putin). It is about making sure your people stay safe and your country alive.

[Sovaal]

If the Russians start a nuclear war I would imagine they would evacuate their government from the cities and move them to secure sites in the Urals and Siberia. And if you’re willing to kill ten million people what’s a hundred million to you?

You do present a valid point, if they have been the first to strike then indeed they must have already secluded somewhere to turn the keys and kick the football.

But to answer your question, the difference between 10 and 100 is how much radioactive fallout my arsenal would shoot up into the air.
Even if my answers are stupid, my goal is the wish to protect the rest of the planet from as much nuclear fallout as possible.

The Russians just nuked a third of the North American continent, the planet is going to be affected regardless.

[Thuzbekistan]

Yes. Them and every single enemy we have. Not because it's ethical or moral, but because there is no way the destruction of our people could go unanswered. Ethics goes out the window when nukes are launched. If someone seeks to destroy you and your people in a nuclear holocaust, then the only thing to do is fire back and hope something in your country survives and nothing in theirs does.

[Cruciland]

1. Do you give the authorization for a full nuclear strike against Russia?
That's the entire point of mutually-assured destruction. If someone has the balls to destroy the US, you guarantee they suffer the same consequences. It's an effective deterrent, but if you don't go through with it then now you have a regime that's clearly not afraid to wipe other nations off the map taking over as the new #1 superpower.

In other words, yes.

2. What are your responsibilities as the US President at this point?
Issue an evacuation order to everyone. Get the EAS warnings blaring, get people to clear out of strategic targets, and hope to God we can wheel out enough missile systems (or hell, even CIWS systems would be worth a shot at this point) to prevent the US's complete annihilation.

3. What is the objectively moral thing to do?
The holy grail of nuclear warfare is to completely destroy your target while causing minimal damage to neighboring nations; it may not be possible with current technology, but it can still be mitigated as one attempts to expunge a dangerous superpower. If you have the ability to minimize fallout, such as with the development of fourth-generation nuclear weapons, then use those for airburst detonation. Try getting highly radioactive warheads to collide with the ground before going off in order to minimize continental fallout; there should be enough in the USA's stockpile to flatten Russia without relying on the bonus to blast radius provided by an airburst.

[Ifreann]

Food doesn't vanish when there's a nuclear exchange.

What is water filtration?

A nuclear exchange between the US and Russia won't necessarily blot out the sun everywhere forever.

World leaders aren't cartoon villains that hate each other just because. They have specific points of disagreement and opposing beliefs. If they believe that everyone everywhere is going to die then there's no point to their rivalry any more. North Korea can't take over the rest of the Korean peninsula if they're all dead, so why bother?

I'm not the person to ask for ethics and human nature, but people would, in my opinion, do weird things when the end of the world comes.
Specific points of disagreeement and opposing beliefs are no longer a thing at the final day of human life on Earth.

So why pursue a rivalry based on that?

1. Food - Where it does come from? Magic?

There are no stockpiles of food anywhere on Earth.

2. Water - Filters? Good luck finding those because a) you're traversing the fallout and b) it won't help that much. We're not nearly as equipped as we were in the Cold War. Filters are not 100% reliable.

No one anywhere on Earth has water filters.

3. Sun - That's not the problem. You're not going outside because of the radiation, not necessarily the Sun (although that hurts as well).

Everywhere becomes fatally irradiated immediately.

[The Grene Knyght]

Of course I nuke back. It'd be the culmination of my secret posadist agenda to do so.

[New United Bad Lands]

I would say Yes Nuke them back they would kill us all and North America would die and that would be that. The US would be known as a ONCE good country but if we nuke back we would live on in the minds of all of Europe. Yes, we would be murderers but we would have a great legacy to help us live on in the minds of every other country.

Message me and we can talk about this.

[The Transhuman Union]

I'm not the person to ask for ethics and human nature, but people would, in my opinion, do weird things when the end of the world comes.
Specific points of disagreeement and opposing beliefs are no longer a thing at the final day of human life on Earth.

So why pursue a rivalry based on that?

1. Food - Where it does come from? Magic?

There are no stockpiles of food anywhere on Earth.

2. Water - Filters? Good luck finding those because a) you're traversing the fallout and b) it won't help that much. We're not nearly as equipped as we were in the Cold War. Filters are not 100% reliable.

No one anywhere on Earth has water filters.

3. Sun - That's not the problem. You're not going outside because of the radiation, not necessarily the Sun (although that hurts as well).

Everywhere becomes fatally irradiated immediately.

Oh cool, now you are joking. Great. I can't see through the fog though. It doesn't matter. Everyone will die.
1) WOW! They are going to replenish by magic!
2) Filters won't help always. I told ya. Also with what filter are you going to filter out fallout. No filter was designed to do that.
3) Yes. And die.
'So why pursue a rivalry based on that?' Based on what? That they're going to die soon? Politicians may be stupid, but they don't have existential crises (hopefully).

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

It's better than spreading out the devastation and killing everyone. Besides, my point about "they [should have] known what they were getting into when they nuked a superpower" still stands.

Except what you’re doing is spreading out the devastation and killing everyone. Again, a nice sentiment, but a useless one.

You seem to be confusing "hitting back" with "spreading out the devastation". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Russia consists of more than just major cities.

[Valrifell]

Except what you’re doing is spreading out the devastation and killing everyone. Again, a nice sentiment, but a useless one.

You seem to be confusing "hitting back" with "spreading out the devastation". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Russia consists of more than just major cities.

Yeah, there's also the frozen hellscape

[Sovaal]

Except what you’re doing is spreading out the devastation and killing everyone. Again, a nice sentiment, but a useless one.

You seem to be confusing "hitting back" with "spreading out the devastation". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Russia consists of more than just major cities.

The nature of ‘hitting back’ is ‘spreading out decastation’. Out lying areas are going to be affected by fallout from nukes cities, along with the collapse of the government structure which will cause chaos and a collapse of the country and most likely the deaths of millions of people through starvation and radiation poisoning.

[Ifreann]

So why pursue a rivalry based on that?

There are no stockpiles of food anywhere on Earth.

No one anywhere on Earth has water filters.

Everywhere becomes fatally irradiated immediately.

Oh cool, now you are joking.

I'm just pointing out what needs to be true for your doomsday predictions to come true. No food for anyone anywhere, no water for anyone anywhere, no possibility of ever going outside for anyone anywhere. Do you think that sounds like a joke?

'So why pursue a rivalry based on that?' Based on what? That they're going to die soon? Politicians may be stupid, but they don't have existential crises (hopefully).

Based on disputes that are made invalid by the, apparently, imminent death of literally everyone everywhere.

[Kramanica]

Yes. If we go down then we take them down with us.

It's the whole point of nukes.

[The Transhuman Union]

Oh cool, now you are joking.

I'm just pointing out what needs to be true for your doomsday predictions to come true. No food for anyone anywhere, no water for anyone anywhere, no possibility of ever going outside for anyone anywhere. Do you think that sounds like a joke?

'So why pursue a rivalry based on that?' Based on what? That they're going to die soon? Politicians may be stupid, but they don't have existential crises (hopefully).

Based on disputes that are made invalid by the, apparently, imminent death of literally everyone everywhere.

Answer me this question.
1) Where you are going to get food that can sustain you (and other 'survivors') unless the fallout clears out? Agriculture is pretty much forever disabled as a option and possibly hunting as well. Remember, Chernobyl isn't going to have its fallout cleared soon. Neither will other fallout.
'Do you think that sounds like a joke?' Well, your statements were kinda jokey at first, but I changed my post.

[Auriania]

So by that point of view the Allies shouldn’t have gone to war with Nazi Germany.

No, it's more like when the Nazis destroyed artwork after they knew they were going to lose. The world lost art when it didn't need to, because a group decided to take something down with it.

[Ifreann]

I'm just pointing out what needs to be true for your doomsday predictions to come true. No food for anyone anywhere, no water for anyone anywhere, no possibility of ever going outside for anyone anywhere. Do you think that sounds like a joke?

Based on disputes that are made invalid by the, apparently, imminent death of literally everyone everywhere.

Answer me this question.
1) Where you are going to get food that can sustain you (and other 'survivors') unless the fallout clears out? Agriculture is pretty much forever disabled as a option and possibly hunting as well. Remember, Chernobyl isn't going to have its fallout cleared soon. Neither will other fallout.

No one anywhere on Earth has stockpiles of food, and the whole planet will be fatally irradiated immediately. It won't be possible to operate even limited indoor farming for any period of time anywhere. Right?

'Do you think that sounds like a joke?' Well, your statements were kinda jokey at first, but I changed my post.

These are the necessary conditions for this "everyone is already dead" prediction to be accurate. If you think it sounds absurd, well, maybe it is.

[The Transhuman Union]

Answer me this question.
1) Where you are going to get food that can sustain you (and other 'survivors') unless the fallout clears out? Agriculture is pretty much forever disabled as a option and possibly hunting as well. Remember, Chernobyl isn't going to have its fallout cleared soon. Neither will other fallout.

No one anywhere on Earth has stockpiles of food, and the whole planet will be fatally irradiated immediately. It won't be possible to operate even limited indoor farming for any period of time anywhere. Right?

'Do you think that sounds like a joke?' Well, your statements were kinda jokey at first, but I changed my post.

These are the necessary conditions for this "everyone is already dead" prediction to be accurate. If you think it sounds absurd, well, maybe it is.

'Indoor farming' *giggles* Yeah, good luck with electricity. And LED lights. And water. And fertilizer. And nutrients.
The stockpiles on food argument is useless. I'm saying how to REPLENISH food, not how to GET food.

[Kramanica]

No one anywhere on Earth has stockpiles of food, and the whole planet will be fatally irradiated immediately. It won't be possible to operate even limited indoor farming for any period of time anywhere. Right?

These are the necessary conditions for this "everyone is already dead" prediction to be accurate. If you think it sounds absurd, well, maybe it is.

'Indoor farming' *giggles* Yeah, good luck with electricity. And LED lights. And water. And fertilizer. And nutrients.
The stockpiles on food argument is useless. I'm saying how to REPLENISH food, not how to GET food.

What is your point? What the world will be a nuclear irradiated hellhole regardless of whether we nuke Russia back or not.

At least destroying them prevents them from carrying out the rest of their plan or threatening anyone else with annihilation.

[The Transhuman Union]

'Indoor farming' *giggles* Yeah, good luck with electricity. And LED lights. And water. And fertilizer. And nutrients.
The stockpiles on food argument is useless. I'm saying how to REPLENISH food, not how to GET food.

What is your point? What the world will be a nuclear irradiated hellhole regardless of whether we nuke Russia back or not.

At least destroying them prevents them from carrying out the rest of their plan or threatening anyone else with annihilation.

4,500 nuclear bombs is a good amount of fallout, I'm telling ya. More bombs? More fallout to be carried by wind systems.

[Ifreann]

No one anywhere on Earth has stockpiles of food, and the whole planet will be fatally irradiated immediately. It won't be possible to operate even limited indoor farming for any period of time anywhere. Right?

These are the necessary conditions for this "everyone is already dead" prediction to be accurate. If you think it sounds absurd, well, maybe it is.

'Indoor farming' *giggles* Yeah, good luck with electricity. And LED lights. And water. And fertilizer. And nutrients.

And all of those things either don't exist, or would become immediately impossible to access.

The stockpiles on food argument is useless. I'm saying how to REPLENISH food, not how to GET food.

Clearly they can't ever. Everywhere will be fatally irradiated for all time.

[Mujahidah]

What is your point? What the world will be a nuclear irradiated hellhole regardless of whether we nuke Russia back or not.

At least destroying them prevents them from carrying out the rest of their plan or threatening anyone else with annihilation.

4,500 nuclear bombs is a good amount of fallout, I'm telling ya. More bombs? More fallout to be carried by wind systems.

Honestly from the megatonnage that Russia would have dropped on the US the world would already be pretty screwed up.

[The Transhuman Union]

'Indoor farming' *giggles* Yeah, good luck with electricity. And LED lights. And water. And fertilizer. And nutrients.

And all of those things either don't exist, or would become immediately impossible to access.

The stockpiles on food argument is useless. I'm saying how to REPLENISH food, not how to GET food.

Clearly they can't ever. Everywhere will be fatally irradiated for all time.

1) Get me electricity, Who is going to power it? How will be transmitted? Don't even get me started on transformers and resistors and oh boy.
2) LED lights. See above.
Bla bla...
You don't give me arguments how you will get that. How? It won't happen by magic, I'm sure.

Yes. Everything in the world would be radiated by the winds which blow radiation.

[Sovaal]

So by that point of view the Allies shouldn’t have gone to war with Nazi Germany.

No, it's more like when the Nazis destroyed artwork after they knew they were going to lose. The world lost art when it didn't need to, because a group decided to take something down with it.

The Allies destroyed plenty of art, architecture, land, cities, and lives in their war against the Nazis.