Nerve Agent Used in Attempted Murder of Russian Spy

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Not Trump, Bolton.

Bolton's just an advisor. He isn't actually in charge of the military. That's still Trump and Mattis.

A very dangerous advisor.

[Kramanica]

Bolton's just an advisor. He isn't actually in charge of the military. That's still Trump and Mattis.

A very dangerous advisor.

He only ever gets shit because he supported the Iraq war along with most of Congress. He's really not that bad, and he's no friend of Putin which one would think most here would agree with.

[Kartofian]

I think it extremely likely. Russia has also killed a lot just not so theatrically. Trying to deal with either as if they think like us is simply stupid and has to do with mistaking our uniqueness as a people for something universal. For example we still can't come to grips with Putin's popularity in Russia. To us, Putin is a deviant, but Putin is not one of us, he is a Russian, and among Russians he's seen as an IDEAL.

Let's face it, Putin won the last election through corruption. If Russia held a fair election, Navalny would have had a fighting chance of winning.

No, Putin won because he is popular. If Navalny did stand in the election, complete with state TV access and all, I say he would get about 20% give or take 5%.

Still worried that the expulsion will cause WW3.

It won't, simply because no one is willing to escalate that far. Putin will continue to escalate, and be even more of a nuisance, he can come close to threatening war, but he won't pull the trigger. Western leaders, on the other hand, have a reputation to maintain outside of their own countries - they can't escalate up to a near-war scenario.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Let's face it, Putin won the last election through corruption. If Russia held a fair election, Navalny would have had a fighting chance of winning.

No, Putin won because he is popular. If Navalny did stand in the election, complete with state TV access and all, I say he would get about 20% give or take 5%.

Well, Kim Jong-un is popular in North Korea. Anyone accounted for propaganda?

(And the younger generation of Russians is more anti-Putin)

[Kartofian]

No, Putin won because he is popular. If Navalny did stand in the election, complete with state TV access and all, I say he would get about 20% give or take 5%.

Well, Kim Jong-un is popular in North Korea. Anyone accounted for propaganda?

(And the younger generation of Russians is more anti-Putin)

Russia isn't a totalitarian state, the comparison is ridiculous.

Got any data to back up that claim? Because, I heard the complete opposite:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/better-off-than-their-parents-why-russias-youth-are-backing-putin-1521205201
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/12/putin-generation-russia-soviet-union/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-s-millennial-fans-can-t-wait-russian-election-n833406
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/03/09/feature/russias-young-people-are-putins-biggest-fans/?utm_term=.4aa5e692897c

[Dooom35796821595]

Well, Kim Jong-un is popular in North Korea. Anyone accounted for propaganda?

(And the younger generation of Russians is more anti-Putin)

Russia isn't a totalitarian state, the comparison is ridiculous.

Got any data to back up that claim? Because, I heard the complete opposite:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/better-off-than-their-parents-why-russias-youth-are-backing-putin-1521205201
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/12/putin-generation-russia-soviet-union/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-s-millennial-fans-can-t-wait-russian-election-n833406
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/03/09/feature/russias-young-people-are-putins-biggest-fans/?utm_term=.4aa5e692897c

Yeah, it's not like they stop the opposition from running, stuff ballot boxes, have mad state propaganda or murder people with WMDs on foreign soil...

And Hitler was popular with the German youth, the young are more susceptible to indoctrination.

[Kartofian]

Russia isn't a totalitarian state, the comparison is ridiculous.

Got any data to back up that claim? Because, I heard the complete opposite:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/better-off-than-their-parents-why-russias-youth-are-backing-putin-1521205201
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/12/putin-generation-russia-soviet-union/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-s-millennial-fans-can-t-wait-russian-election-n833406
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/03/09/feature/russias-young-people-are-putins-biggest-fans/?utm_term=.4aa5e692897c

Yeah, it's not like they stop the opposition from running, stuff ballot boxes, have mad state propaganda or murder people with WMDs on foreign soil...

And Hitler was popular with the German youth, the young are more susceptible to indoctrination.

> it's not like they stop the opposition from running
Navalny was the only one

> stuff ballot boxes
Eh, well yeah uhm.....

> have mad state propaganda
To describe it as mad is unfair. Is there propaganda? Sure. To imply that it was decisive in the vote is wrong.

> And Hitler was popular with the German youth, the young are more susceptible to indoctrination.
Is this the old liberals are turning my kids gay!?!?!? trope, but in reverse? I wonder what the Parkland students would think of your words, or the young Obama voters?
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/study-youth-vote-was-decisive-083510

Did you even bother to read the articles? Would you say the reasons for them supporting Putin are legitimate? Or are they indoctrinated jew America haters?

[Vassenor]

Let's face it, Putin won the last election through corruption. If Russia held a fair election, Navalny would have had a fighting chance of winning.

No, Putin won because he is popular. If Navalny did stand in the election, complete with state TV access and all, I say he would get about 20% give or take 5%.

Just ignore all the video of people voting twice.

[Kartofian]

No, Putin won because he is popular. If Navalny did stand in the election, complete with state TV access and all, I say he would get about 20% give or take 5%.

Just ignore all the video of people voting twice.

The election was fake. Doesn't change the fact that Putin won, and that he won thanks to his popularity. Even when adjusting for voter fraud, Putin had an easy majority -- the polling predicted this as well.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-03-19/russian-election-a-fake-democracy-but-real-support-for-putin

There are, however, fewer reasons this time around than in several previous elections to describe the outcome as fake, too. Sergei Shpilkin, a physicist and electoral statistician who convincingly demonstrated irregularities in previous vote outcomes, noted that the vote falsification level was "likely at a record low" and close to what he'd seen back in 2004, during Putin's second, conflict-free election. According to Shpilkin, up to 8 million votes may have been added to the actual count.
Even correcting the official data for that would yield a respectable 60 percent turnout and almost 74 percent for Putin. Without the correction, the turnout hit 67.4 percent, more than in 2004 and 2012, and Putin won 77.7 percent of the vote -- his highest ever.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Well, Kim Jong-un is popular in North Korea. Anyone accounted for propaganda?

(And the younger generation of Russians is more anti-Putin)

Russia isn't a totalitarian state, the comparison is ridiculous.

Got any data to back up that claim? Because, I heard the complete opposite:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/better-off-than-their-parents-why-russias-youth-are-backing-putin-1521205201
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/12/putin-generation-russia-soviet-union/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-s-millennial-fans-can-t-wait-russian-election-n833406
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/03/09/feature/russias-young-people-are-putins-biggest-fans/?utm_term=.4aa5e692897c

Scholars regard Russia as a dictatorship. Because it is. It's the 10th most corrupt country on Earth.

[Kartofian]

Russia isn't a totalitarian state, the comparison is ridiculous.

Got any data to back up that claim? Because, I heard the complete opposite:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/better-off-than-their-parents-why-russias-youth-are-backing-putin-1521205201
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/12/putin-generation-russia-soviet-union/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-s-millennial-fans-can-t-wait-russian-election-n833406
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/03/09/feature/russias-young-people-are-putins-biggest-fans/?utm_term=.4aa5e692897c

Scholars regard Russia as a dictatorship. Because it is. It's the 10th most corrupt country on Earth.

The views is not nearly as unanimous as you think it is.
https://mic.com/articles/156026/is-vladimir-putin-a-dictator-here-s-what-experts-have-to-say#.TOYkrRzkY

For Stephen Crowley, a professor of politics at Oberlin College, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

"Most political scientists that I'm aware of would say that Russia is in between a democracy and an outright dictatorship, what some would call a 'hybrid regime' or 'electoral authoritarianism,' though Putin has certainly been drifting more toward [the] authoritarian side," Crowley said in an email.

A dictator, as it is typically defined, is a ruler with absolute power over a region, power which has oftentimes been obtained by force. Putin, Crowley says, meets this criteria in a number of ways, including the ways he has safeguarded his hold on Russia's top political office and ruled largely through executive authority.

But Crowley cautions against comparing the Russian president to other dictators, like North Korea's Kim Jong-Un or Syria's Bashar al-Assad, because Russia still has "contested elections, opposition parties, and at least some degree of freedom of speech."

And most Russians have once lived under the Soviet Union's central committee, they know what a dictatorial power looks like. And most consider Putin to not be a dictator. Corruption does not determine whether a country is dictatorial or not.

Do you concede your point that "most young Russians are anti-Putin"?

[Sharania]

We could start trading 2:1 for each we lose? (This is sarcasm)

Somehow I doubt more serious action wouldn't bring cries of brutality from you and the other human rights brigade types.

Nice for you to drop by, TEM II! First of all – I demand an apology. Here, let me remind you of your slanderous claim:

Now, I want everyone here on NSG be my witnesses! TES II wrote that:

Of course, I am always glad to provide entertainment. They claim to be Russian too, I would normally doubt but their posting style is quite similar to yours, so I guess I have to believe it :^)

They also accused me of being “dishonest”. Now, TES II – go and show everyone where I EVER claimed to be from Russia OR a Russian! Please – I’m waiting! Or are you, yourself, dishonest and disingenuous? Only can libel others, who you PERSONALLY dislike?

TES II – your apologies. Here and now. So that everyone will it. I’m waiting.

Next – it is time for EVERYONE to understand, that the wars nowadays are fought differently. Money is the weapons– so let’s use it! Besides – it is all totally legal and within acceptable norms, as opposed to the primitive, ham-fisted Neanderthal tactics of those who still dream of testosterone soaking macho-macho all destroying wars of the past.

You go after their money. No like it’s been with half-hearted (and possibly Kremlin leaked) Panama Papers. Do it for real. Expose all dirty money – and take them away. Thus they won’t allow themselves to build new tanks, planes and missiles. Thus they won’t be funneling funds on troll-farms and into all too willing (and all too right-wing) Western parties and organizations, who, desperate for power and loathed by their own people, have no qualms to take a foreign “SHILL-ing” (well, ruble).

Say, TEM II, are you by chance one of those who number yourself among the “proud gun owners”? The NRA confirmed that it accepts foreign donations. The Federal Election Commission is investigating whether a top Russian banker with Kremlin ties illegally funneled money to the NRA to aid Trump's campaign for president. Wouldn’t you agree, TEM-II, that it will be just WONDERFUL if all these organizations (and their supporters) involved in the shady dealings with the enemies of the US will get their just reward?

You, TEM II, with your ideas of how to do things “RIGHT” is in the past. And those who wear the “paleo” badge of your on and off supporters – they know how the fossils are “born”, don’t they?

[Sharania]

The election was fake.

In that case… WHY NOT REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE THE RESULTS?! Where is logic?! It is really simple. If something is false, illegal – you act accordingly. The US refused to recognized the Bolshevik regime in Russia for years, thus undermining their legitimacy and standing firm on their principles – longer then some European countries did. The international law and practice say that if you recognize the results of the elections, you retroactively legitimize any irregularities and crimes. You absolve them – you APPROVE them. What’s the mater that you say “they were fake elections” if you still recognize the results?

You know who was not afraid to call the elections in Russia by their proper name? Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The Regime stole everything from him, threw him into gulag for 10 years, kicked off country, constantly threatens to kill him – and he is not afraid to say that he does no recognize the results of these fake elections. I wonder, how the statepersons of the Free World would look him into eyes knowing well that he is much better and braver person then they are?

[Kartofian]

The election was fake.

In that case… WHY NOT REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE THE RESULTS?! Where is logic?! It is really simple. If something is false, illegal – you act accordingly. The US refused to recognized the Bolshevik regime in Russia for years, thus undermining their legitimacy and standing firm on their principles – longer then some European countries did. The international law and practice say that if you recognize the results of the elections, you retroactively legitimize any irregularities and crimes. You absolve them – you APPROVE them. What’s the mater that you say “they were fake elections” if you still recognize the results?

You know who was not afraid to call the elections in Russia by their proper name? Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The Regime stole everything from him, threw him into gulag for 10 years, kicked off country, constantly threatens to kill him – and he is not afraid to say that he does no recognize the results of these fake elections. I wonder, how the statepersons of the Free World would look him into eyes knowing well that he is much better and braver person then they are?

The logic is very simple you see. I may not be a philosopher, but I happen to know, and be able to spot, the difference between de jure and de facto. It something I learned rather early whilst hopping fences.

> The US refused to recognized the Bolshevik regime in Russia for years, thus undermining their legitimacy and standing firm on their principles – longer then some European countries did.

That worker soooooo well!! Right?

> The international law and practice say that if you recognize the results of the elections, you retroactively legitimize any irregularities and crimes.

Where?

You see, I am not the one for moralizing and pontificating and telling people what should be fake or not. Just because the election was rigged, and I happen to think that it was, does not change the reality of the situation. The majority of Russians support Putin and want him as their president. I also happen to think that that is the best course of action.

Also, Khodorkovsky can get lost.

[Sharania]

That worker soooooo well!! Right?

YES! They were contained in 1920-30 with entire world literally refusing to deal with them.

> The international law and practice say that if you recognize the results of the elections, you retroactively legitimize any irregularities and crimes.

Where?

Uhm, what is so arcane in the term "international law"? The UN charter? Conventions (Vienna 1961)? Stuff like this, you know?

You see, I am not the one for moralizing and pontificating and telling people what should be fake or not.

You said it was fake. It is "either/or" situation. Simple as math - or programming. No shades of gray.

Just because the election was rigged, and I happen to think that it was, does not change the reality of the situation. The majority of Russians support Putin and want him as their president.

How do you know that if the elections were rigged?

I also happen to think that that is the best course of action.

Why? This is incosistence and show of weakness.

Also, Khodorkovsky can get lost.

Why?

[Kartofian]

> YES! They were contained in 1920-30 with entire world literally refusing to deal with them.

Or perhaps because they were too busy killing each other? The west tried to contain the Soviet Union right up to their entry into WW II, didn't change jack shit.

> Uhm, what is so arcane in the term "international law"? The UN charter? Conventions (Vienna 1961)? Stuff like this, you know?

Show me where it states that recognizing a single election also means you recognize "any irregularities and crimes"

> You said it was fake. It is "either/or" situation. Simple as math - or programming. No shades of gray.

I said it was fake. You say it is fake. British government official said it was fake. Navalny said it was fake. Putin is still president and enjoys a plurality of support in Russia.

> How do you know that if the elections were rigged?

It wasn't that rigged, even western critics of Putin admit that he enjoys popular support in Russia. Unless Bershidsky is also a Kremlin puppet.

> Why? This is incosistence and show of weakness.

What inconsistence? I said I think the election is fake, but Putin is still the best ruler for Russia (at the moment). Is this what you are referring to?

> Why?

Too long to list here. Long story short I despise him.

[Poland-Galicia-Silesia]

It's frankly typical of politicians to choose an attempted assassination, that has not (yet) been conclusively proven to be the work of the Russian government, as the point to start a hardline stance against Russia.

Not the War in Donbass, not Crimea, not Syria, not the many other successful assassinations, no, it's the botched poisoning of a double agent.

[Petrasylvania]

It's frankly typical of politicians to choose an attempted assassination, that has not (yet) been conclusively proven to be the work of the Russian government, as the point to start a hardline stance against Russia.

Not the War in Donbass, not Crimea, not Syria, not the many other successful assassinations, no, it's the botched poisoning of a double agent.

That also injured numerous British citizens, but that's no big deal for you.

[Phoenicaea]

It's frankly typical of politicians to choose an attempted assassination, that has not (yet) been conclusively proven to be the work of the Russian government, as the point to start a hardline stance against Russia.

Not the War in Donbass, not Crimea, not Syria, not the many other successful assassinations, no, it's the botched poisoning of a double agent.

say, I would assign the fault at bureaucracy, about this missrepresentation of the cause.

[The New California Republic]

It's frankly typical of politicians to choose an attempted assassination, that has not (yet) been conclusively proven to be the work of the Russian government, as the point to start a hardline stance against Russia.

Not the War in Donbass, not Crimea, not Syria, not the many other successful assassinations, no, it's the botched poisoning of a double agent.

Yup, go right ahead and dismiss the release of an extremely dangerous nerve agent in a public area as something that should be quite inconsequential, an attack that injured and maimed innocent people I might add, and contaminated a large area, putting the lives of many others at serious risk.

*sigh*

[The New California Republic]

Yulia Skripal's condition is improving.

[Poland-Galicia-Silesia]

Yup, go right ahead and dismiss the release of an extremely dangerous nerve agent in a public area as something that should be quite inconsequential, an attack that injured and maimed innocent people I might add, and contaminated a large area, putting the lives of many others at serious risk.

*sigh*

Of course it's terrible, but it's been 24 days since the Counter Terrorism Command took over and still no conclusive evidence, apart from the nerve agent being a Soviet production.

[Fartsniffage]

Yup, go right ahead and dismiss the release of an extremely dangerous nerve agent in a public area as something that should be quite inconsequential, an attack that injured and maimed innocent people I might add, and contaminated a large area, putting the lives of many others at serious risk.

*sigh*

Of course it's terrible, but it's been 24 days since the Counter Terrorism Command took over and still no conclusive evidence, apart from the nerve agent being a Soviet production.

No conclusive evidence that you know about. The two things are very different.

[Vassenor]

Of course it's terrible, but it's been 24 days since the Counter Terrorism Command took over and still no conclusive evidence, apart from the nerve agent being a Soviet production.

No conclusive evidence that you know about. The two things are very different.

You're forgetting that the government is required to disclose all evidence about something like this because reasons.

[Poland-Galicia-Silesia]

You're forgetting that the government is required to disclose all evidence about something like this because reasons.

Don't take it from me.

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence ... e3749ba38e