Right Wing Discussion Thread XI: It's Okay To Be Right

[Conserative Morality]

Weaver wasn't using dog whistles in the 1940's, a period of segregation. Where he is being simply racist he is overt about it. To say his criticism of jazz is simply about racism is to dismiss the entire preceding part of the chapter. His conclusions about jazz are entirely consistent from where he's coming from. Indeed, to not have such conclusions would be jarringly inconsistent with his treatment of Western music in general

To detach such sentiments from his racism is to ignore the effects that one's thoughts have on one another. Our worldviews are intricately interconnected, and it's difficult to meaningfully argue for a separation of his racism with the way he characterizes the 'negro' form of music called jazz.

[Mujahidah]

Weaver's critique of jazz is pretty sound, tbh. And it's not like he just hated it out of racism, it's pretty obvious that anyone who thinks Romanticist music is degenerate would hate jazz

Yes, I'm sure the Nazis' were as well.

Hitler ate sugar, Reikoku. I disagree with Parkus but you can't just be like "Yeah buh Nazis." But honestly, that seems like your favorite argument, regardless of relevancy.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

It doesn't sound like he's bashing black people, but what sounds weird is: "something in the Negro's spontaneous manifestation of feeling linked up with Western man's declining faith in the value of culture"
Don't understand what he's getting at here.

[Reikoku]

Hitler ate sugar, Reikoku. I disagree with Parkus but you can't just be like "Yeah buh Nazis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideas_Have_Consequences

"Jazz is negro barbarism and destroys civilization" - Weaver's idea of consequence

But honestly, that seems like your favorite argument, regardless of relevancy.

I can taste the salt from here.

[Mujahidah]

Hitler ate sugar, Reikoku. I disagree with Parkus but you can't just be like "Yeah buh Nazis."

"Jazz is negro barbarism and destroys civilization" - Weaver's idea of consequence

But honestly, that seems like your favorite argument, regardless of relevancy.

I can taste the salt from here.

Hitler ate sugar is literally a logical fallacy. Excuse me having a preference for legitimate arguments.

[Reikoku]

I can taste the salt from here.

Hitler ate sugar is literally a logical fallacy. Excuse me having a preference for legitimate arguments.

Yeah, it's just not applicable here.

[Mujahidah]

Hitler ate sugar is literally a logical fallacy. Excuse me having a preference for legitimate arguments.

Yeah, it's just not applicable here.

It literally is. That and Godwin. You can call him a racist without resorting to "Lulz nazis said that too." That just makes you look silly.

[Benuty]

In order to implement equality on RWDT I hereby declare American Historical discussion outlawed for the next five pages and enforce everyone to discuss the only history that actually matters - European and near Eastern history.

Caesar's Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo when? Really tbh the big mistake was not putting our weight behind the reconstruction of the Roman constitution.

And not crucifying more traitors.

How did civil rights "fuck up everything"?

They weren't enforced, giving the South and the defeat-worshiping traitors within the idea that they could defy the Federal government, an attitude which persists to this day.

Maybe we should have had some competent presidents actually do their part in going full Andrew Jackson, and threaten to lynch anyone advocating secession at their home for all to see.

Get good.

[The Parkus Empire]

It doesn't sound like he's bashing black people, but what sounds weird is: "something in the Negro's spontaneous manifestation of feeling linked up with Western man's declining faith in the value of culture"
Don't understand what he's getting at here.

You would have to read the whole chapter. He doesn't attack jazz as an isolated thing, but as the culmination of Romanticist impulse to break down discipline and restraint

[Reikoku]

It literally is.

A logical fallacy, specifically a sub-type of Genetic Fallacy, that assumes that anything done or liked by a bad person must be bad itself, taking Not So Different to absurd levels.

That and Godwin.

Godwin's Law doesn't apply when someone is literally using the same language as the Nazis did.

That just makes you look silly.

Not as silly as you're making yourself out to look.

[Mujahidah]

Godwin's Law doesn't apply when someone is literally using the same language as the Nazis did.

No, it does. Because the guy wasn't arguing using Nazis, presenting himself as a Nazi, or otherwise endorsing Nazism. The Nazis are irrelevant.

Not as silly as you're making yourself out to look.

Ahhh the storied "no u" response. An argument for the ages, renowned as the H-Bomb of schoolyard arguing. Good one! I am vanquished. I cannot fight against such superior rhetorical whit.

[Luminesa]

Wasn't a direct quote, for fairness' sake.


YMMV if that's worse. He uses the coded language of racists to declare Jazz the work of the stupid, primitive, oversexualized, aggressive, lazy... haters of culture.

Weaver wasn't using dog whistles in the 1940's, a period of segregation. Where he is being simply racist he is overt about it. To say his criticism of jazz is simply about racism is to dismiss the entire preceding part of the chapter. His conclusions about jazz are entirely consistent from where he's coming from. Indeed, to not have such conclusions would be jarringly inconsistent with his treatment of Western music in general

So what do YOUUUUU think of Jazz and it’s role in Western society?

IMO, Jazz represents a sort of freedom and power that was not allowed to musicians both white and black in the early 20th century. And peoples’ dislike for it only fueled its power, especially overseas. Modern music could not have grown without jazz.

[Reikoku]

No, it does. Because the guy wasn't arguing using Nazis, presenting himself as a Nazi, or otherwise endorsing Nazism. The Nazis are irrelevant.

Godwin's Law doesn't preclude real comparisons to Nazism, such as believing “black people are an inferior unintelligible race and their degenerate music is destroying Western civilization.” what CM stated absolutely is valid to compare to the Nazis. If you want to continue to be obtuse and whine about how unfair it is for racists to be compared to Nazis, do it on your own time, not mine.

[Mujahidah]

Weaver wasn't using dog whistles in the 1940's, a period of segregation. Where he is being simply racist he is overt about it. To say his criticism of jazz is simply about racism is to dismiss the entire preceding part of the chapter. His conclusions about jazz are entirely consistent from where he's coming from. Indeed, to not have such conclusions would be jarringly inconsistent with his treatment of Western music in general

So what do YOUUUUU think of Jazz and it’s role in Western society?

IMO, Jazz represents a sort of freedom and power that was not allowed to musicians both white and black in the early 20th century. And peoples’ dislike for it only fueled its power, especially overseas. Modern music could not have grown without jazz.

Jazz isn't my taste but I wouldn't call it "degenerate" or any of the other right-wing buzzwords. To be honest it can be soothing and fun sometimes, but its not really my genre in general.

[Mujahidah]

No, it does. Because the guy wasn't arguing using Nazis, presenting himself as a Nazi, or otherwise endorsing Nazism. The Nazis are irrelevant.

Godwin's Law doesn't preclude real comparisons to Nazism, such as believing “black people are an inferior unintelligible race and their degenerate music is destroying Western civilization.” what CM stated absolutely is valid to compare to the Nazis. If you want to continue to be obtuse and whine about how unfair it is for racists to be compared to Nazis, do it on your own time, not mine.

If you don't want to be called out for Godwin and Hitler Ate Sugar, don't rest your entire arguing identity on them.

[The East Marches II]

Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo when?

EDIT: Really tbh the big mistake was not putting our weight behind Reconstruction.

And not hanging more traitors.

We did the best we could with what we had. Reconstruction was as stupid as it was idealistic. Grant had the right idea with railroads. Hanging more wouldn't have brought peace quicker, just kept the war longer. We should have given the freed slaves land holdings at the very frontier edge. Not kept them in the South.

[Reikoku]

Weaver wasn't using dog whistles in the 1940's, a period of segregation. Where he is being simply racist he is overt about it. To say his criticism of jazz is simply about racism is to dismiss the entire preceding part of the chapter. His conclusions about jazz are entirely consistent from where he's coming from. Indeed, to not have such conclusions would be jarringly inconsistent with his treatment of Western music in general

So what do YOUUUUU think of Jazz and it’s role in Western society?

IMO, Jazz represents a sort of freedom and power that was not allowed to musicians both white and black in the early 20th century. And peoples’ dislike for it only fueled its power, especially overseas. Modern music could not have grown without jazz.

There's probably some jazz out there which would appeal to me, but for the most part, I don't care too much for the genre.

[Conserative Morality]

We did the best we could with what we had. Reconstruction was as stupid as it was idealistic. Grant had the right idea with railroads. Hanging more wouldn't have brought peace quicker, just kept the war longer.

Longer war, longer peace. =^)

We should have given the freed slaves land holdings at the very frontier edge. Not kept them in the South.

I agree with that much. Forty acres and a mule pls

[The East Marches II]

Brutus deserved the Tarpeian Rock. That he eventually died by the honorable method of suicide is criminal.

Brutus ought not to have taken the amnesty if he was so idealistic. What an asshole and an oath breaker.

[Reikoku]

Brutus deserved the Tarpeian Rock. That he eventually died by the honorable method of suicide is criminal.

Brutus ought not to have taken the amnesty if he was so idealistic. What an asshole and an oath breaker.

It does add credence to the Anglo claim to descend from Trojans.

[The East Marches II]

Brutus ought not to have taken the amnesty if he was so idealistic. What an asshole and an oath breaker.

It does add credence to the Anglo claim to descend from Trojans.

DELET THIS

[Luminesa]

So what do YOUUUUU think of Jazz and it’s role in Western society?

IMO, Jazz represents a sort of freedom and power that was not allowed to musicians both white and black in the early 20th century. And peoples’ dislike for it only fueled its power, especially overseas. Modern music could not have grown without jazz.

There's probably some jazz out there which would appeal to me, but for the most part, I don't care too much for the genre.

I like a bit of it, it’s definitely good chill music. Duke Ellington’s New Orleans Suite is probably my favorite jazz album.

[Reikoku]

It does add credence to the Anglo claim to descend from Trojans.

DELET THIS

Search your feelings, you know it to be true. You can already feel the urge to blame Germany and refuse to pay your debts.

[Conserative Morality]

So what do YOUUUUU think of Jazz and it’s role in Western society?

IMO, Jazz represents a sort of freedom and power that was not allowed to musicians both white and black in the early 20th century. And peoples’ dislike for it only fueled its power, especially overseas. Modern music could not have grown without jazz.

There's probably some jazz out there which would appeal to me, but for the most part, I don't care too much for the genre.

I like Jazz for its influences more than Jazz straight on. Like Rufus Harley.

[Herskerstad]

Of course a statist would hate the noble hero Brutus.

'noble hero'

Tell me more about how betraying the man who granted you clemency in the name of a corrupt, oppressive institution of murderers is noble?

Oh, of course, we're using the original meaning of the term. Yes, Brutus truly was a hero of the noble classes who wanted to keep the commons under their heel. =^)

His noble bloodline could not tolerate tyrants, a matter far more important than personal squabbles. Fate would only have it one way.