Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

[United Muscovite Nations]

I just want to remind the Leftists here that Lenin said that an anti-Imperialist must hope for the defeat of his country when it begins an imperialist undertaking. In that vein, I want to remind everyone that if the US attacks Syria, that it is our duty as Anti-Imperialists to hope for the defeat of the US military and the victory of the Syrian Arab Army that is resistant to it.

[Pilarcraft]

I just want to remind the Leftists here that Lenin said that an anti-Imperialist must hope for the defeat of his country when it begins an imperialist undertaking. In that vein, I want to remind everyone that if the US attacks Syria, that it is our duty as Anti-Imperialists to hope for the defeat of the US military and the victory of the Syrian Arab Army that is resistant to it.

suggesting that an attack on Syria, with the casus belli of a war crime, done by numerous nations, is Imperialist overtaking.
And suggesting Syria isn't already the acting puppet of another Imperialist power (Russia)

[United Muscovite Nations]

I just want to remind the Leftists here that Lenin said that an anti-Imperialist must hope for the defeat of his country when it begins an imperialist undertaking. In that vein, I want to remind everyone that if the US attacks Syria, that it is our duty as Anti-Imperialists to hope for the defeat of the US military and the victory of the Syrian Arab Army that is resistant to it.

suggesting that an attack on Syria, with the casus belli of a war crime, done by numerous nations, is Imperialist overtaking.
And suggesting Syria isn't already the acting puppet of another Imperialist power (Russia)

An attack on a sovereign country without any evidence of a war crime, which would result in a lengthening of the civil war (and thereby many more deaths), is indeed imperialism.

[Cekoviu]

suggesting that an attack on Syria, with the casus belli of a war crime, done by numerous nations, is Imperialist overtaking.
And suggesting Syria isn't already the acting puppet of another Imperialist power (Russia)

An attack on a sovereign country without any evidence of a war crime, which would result in a lengthening of the civil war (and thereby many more deaths), is indeed imperialism.

Is gassing your own citizens okay then?

[United Muscovite Nations]

An attack on a sovereign country without any evidence of a war crime, which would result in a lengthening of the civil war (and thereby many more deaths), is indeed imperialism.

Is gassing your own citizens okay then?

I don't believe Assad did, but, even if he did, it wouldn't justify lengthening the civil war.

[Cekoviu]

Is gassing your own citizens okay then?

I don't believe Assad did, but, even if he did, it wouldn't justify lengthening the civil war.

I am admittedly not super well-informed in the intricacies of the Syrian civil war, but I feel like we should not just sit idly by and let Assad murder innocent civilians so we "don't lengthen the civil war."

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't believe Assad did, but, even if he did, it wouldn't justify lengthening the civil war.

I am admittedly not super well-informed in the intricacies of the Syrian civil war, but I feel like we should not just sit idly by and let Assad murder innocent civilians so we "don't lengthen the civil war."

If we overthrow Assad hundreds of thousands more will die. There is no secular opposition government waiting in the wings to take power.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I just want to remind the Leftists here that Lenin said that an anti-Imperialist must hope for the defeat of his country when it begins an imperialist undertaking. In that vein, I want to remind everyone that if the US attacks Syria, that it is our duty as Anti-Imperialists to hope for the defeat of the US military and the victory of the Syrian Arab Army that is resistant to it.

I don't hope for the defeat of my country when it enters an interventionist war, I just hope for my country to pull out.

[Pilarcraft]

I don't believe Assad did, but, even if he did, it wouldn't justify lengthening the civil war.

I am admittedly not super well-informed in the intricacies of the Syrian civil war, but I feel like we should not just sit idly by and let Assad murder innocent civilians so we "don't lengthen the civil war."

Even if Assad hadn't gassed his own people in Duma a few days ago (which, he did, but let's take the impossible route that he didn't), his actions in Eastern Ghouta are still enough to justify an open intervention in the civil war.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I am admittedly not super well-informed in the intricacies of the Syrian civil war, but I feel like we should not just sit idly by and let Assad murder innocent civilians so we "don't lengthen the civil war."

Even if Assad hadn't gassed his own people in Duma a few days ago (which, he did, but let's take the impossible route that he didn't), his actions in Eastern Ghouta are still enough to justify an open intervention in the civil war.

You realize Eastern Ghouta is controlled by Al Qaeda, right? What's he supposed to do, just let Al Qaeda own an entire city?

[Pilarcraft]

Even if Assad hadn't gassed his own people in Duma a few days ago (which, he did, but let's take the impossible route that he didn't), his actions in Eastern Ghouta are still enough to justify an open intervention in the civil war.

You realize Eastern Ghouta is controlled by Al Qaeda, right? What's he supposed to do, just let Al Qaeda own an entire city?

Not bomb it into oblivion? I mean, this isn't really a dilemma.
"What should we do?"
a- "Bomb the city into oblivion"
b- "do something else"

[Cekoviu]

I am admittedly not super well-informed in the intricacies of the Syrian civil war, but I feel like we should not just sit idly by and let Assad murder innocent civilians so we "don't lengthen the civil war."

If we overthrow Assad hundreds of thousands more will die. There is no secular opposition government waiting in the wings to take power.

I don't know if Rojava would be willing to take the whole of Syria, but it is a secular opposition in the northern region.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You realize Eastern Ghouta is controlled by Al Qaeda, right? What's he supposed to do, just let Al Qaeda own an entire city?

Not bomb it into oblivion? I mean, this isn't really a dilemma.
"What should we do?"
a- "Bomb the city into oblivion"
b- "do something else"

What do you think the US does when it's fighting in cities? The US bombed whole parts of Iraq to smithereens and killed like 50,000 people.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If we overthrow Assad hundreds of thousands more will die. There is no secular opposition government waiting in the wings to take power.

I don't know if Rojava would be willing to take the whole of Syria, but it is a secular opposition in the northern region.

I hope you seriously don't think that the Arabs would willingly be ruled by Kurds, or that the Turks would ever allow Rojava to control all of Syria.

[Cekoviu]

I don't know if Rojava would be willing to take the whole of Syria, but it is a secular opposition in the northern region.

I hope you seriously don't think that the Arabs would willingly be ruled by Kurds, or that the Turks would ever allow Rojava to control all of Syria.

I don't think they would, but your premise that there's no secular opposition is wrong.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Not bomb it into oblivion? I mean, this isn't really a dilemma.
"What should we do?"
a- "Bomb the city into oblivion"
b- "do something else"

What do you think the US does when it's fighting in cities? The US bombed whole parts of Iraq to smithereens and killed like 50,000 people.

whataboutism.txt

[Pilarcraft]

What do you think the US does when it's fighting in cities? The US bombed whole parts of Iraq to smithereens and killed like 50,000 people.

whataboutism.txt

I was waiting for someone else to point that out, thank you.

[Taihei Tengoku]

I just want to remind the Leftists here that Lenin said that an anti-Imperialist must hope for the defeat of his country when it begins an imperialist undertaking. In that vein, I want to remind everyone that if the US attacks Syria, that it is our duty as Anti-Imperialists to hope for the defeat of the US military and the victory of the Syrian Arab Army that is resistant to it.

As an anti-imperialist I hope that the Azov Battalion slaughters Grupa Wagner by the hundreds and detonates every unwashed T-90 in the Donbas.

[United Muscovite Nations]

What do you think the US does when it's fighting in cities? The US bombed whole parts of Iraq to smithereens and killed like 50,000 people.

whataboutism.txt

My point wasn't whataboutism, the point was that civilian casualties are inevitable in urban fighting and to criticize a government for having collateral damage in urban fighting is just foolish.

[Pilarcraft]

whataboutism.txt

My point wasn't whataboutism, the point was that civilian casualties are inevitable in urban fighting and to criticize a government for having collateral damage in urban fighting is just foolish.

Bombarding with the intention of having casualties is different than bombarding and the bombs ending up killing people. What happened in Ghouta wasn't "we hope we don't hit civilians" (at least, in pretense), it was an open attack on civilians.

[United Muscovite Nations]

My point wasn't whataboutism, the point was that civilian casualties are inevitable in urban fighting and to criticize a government for having collateral damage in urban fighting is just foolish.

Bombarding with the intention of having casualties is different than bombarding and the bombs ending up killing people. What happened in Ghouta wasn't "we hope we don't hit civilians" (at least, in pretense), it was an open attack on civilians.

How do you know that? If that were the case, why did the Assad government help evacuate the neighborhood's civilians?

[Taihei Tengoku]

Deportation and exile is a common tactic of Fertile Crescent despots dating back to Ashurbanipal and beyond.

[West Leas Oros]

So... I’m taking an economics class, getting lots of capitalist drivel shoved down my throat, and am looking for a way to create the ideal socialist economy, keeping both productivity and consumer satisfaction in mind. I ask because otherwise I’m considering converting to mixed market capitalism. Please keep me from betraying glorious proletariat. Convince me to stay.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So... I’m taking an economics class, getting lots of capitalist drivel shoved down my throat, and am looking for a way to create the ideal socialist economy, keeping both productivity and consumer satisfaction in mind. I ask because otherwise I’m considering converting to mixed market capitalism. Please keep me from betraying glorious proletariat. Convince me to stay.

Oh no! All those bourgeois facts being shoved down your throat.

[Jelmatt]

So... I’m taking an economics class, getting lots of capitalist drivel shoved down my throat, and am looking for a way to create the ideal socialist economy, keeping both productivity and consumer satisfaction in mind. I ask because otherwise I’m considering converting to mixed market capitalism. Please keep me from betraying glorious proletariat. Convince me to stay.

Wow that's actually a terrible mindset... "validate my beliefs so I don't change them." I don't even care that I agree with you, but that's not how you should approach forming your political views.