Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

[Democratic Communist Federation]

It matters quite a lot. You need clear labels for crime in order safeguard justice and protect the innocent. You don't put people on trial for being bad people, you put people on trial for tangible transgression. To do anything else is an express flight to despotism.

Again, I am not a criminologist. I am also living in 2018, not at some unknown date in the future. Those matters will be worked out when the time comes.

[Ardoki]

Eh, so you have no idea about how your little revolution would work? Do you just intend to wing it?

I have no idea of whether there will even be a revolution. We could blow up the world tomorrow. There are no guarantees in communism.

There most likely won't be a communist revolution in the western world, ever.

[Ardoki]

If a killer is caught, killing them won't bring the victim back to life.

It stops them from killing anymore, though. You can't kill if you're dead.

You can't kill if you are imprisoned for life.

[Ardoki]

It matters quite a lot. You need clear labels for crime in order safeguard justice and protect the innocent. You don't put people on trial for being bad people, you put people on trial for tangible transgression. To do anything else is an express flight to despotism.

Again, I am not a criminologist. I am also living in 2018, not at some unknown date in the future. Those matters will be worked out when the time comes.

You don't need to be a criminologist to have an opinion.

[Geneviev]

It matters quite a lot. You need clear labels for crime in order safeguard justice and protect the innocent. You don't put people on trial for being bad people, you put people on trial for tangible transgression. To do anything else is an express flight to despotism.

Again, I am not a criminologist. I am also living in 2018, not at some unknown date in the future. Those matters will be worked out when the time comes.

If you don't have any plan for the future at all, outside of mass murder, that does not reflect well on your position. So what will happen? Will you refer to being a capitalist as thoughtcrime, punishable by the death penalty?

Forgive me if that is rude.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

If a killer is caught, killing them won't bring the victim back to life.

People are punished because they deserve to be punished, not because it will bring anyone back to life.

[Ardoki]

If a killer is caught, killing them won't bring the victim back to life.

People are punished because they deserve to be punished, not because it will bring anyone back to life.

Rehabilitation and prevention should be the goals of the criminal justice system, not punishment.

[Norstal]

It matters quite a lot. You need clear labels for crime in order safeguard justice and protect the innocent. You don't put people on trial for being bad people, you put people on trial for tangible transgression. To do anything else is an express flight to despotism.

Again, I am not a criminologist. I am also living in 2018, not at some unknown date in the future. Those matters will be worked out when the time comes.

Uhh, no, work it out now cause what you're saying is that I'm going to be imprisoned just cause I own a couple of stock options.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

You're a critical realist huh?

How'd you managed to lump "most communists" when there's about 1 billion communists over there in that country called China who disagrees with you?

Well I'll give you that they used to agree with you, but I think they learned their lessons.

Roy Bhaskar, the founder of critical realism, was a libertarian Marxist (a communist who wants to end all forms of oppression). He was not a Maoist or a Chinese market socialist.

Liberty requires justice. Justice requires liberty. IMO, one without the other won't work.

[Aillyria]

It stops them from killing anymore, though. You can't kill if you're dead.

You can't kill if you are imprisoned for life.

They can still:
- Kill other prisoners
- Kill a guard(s)
- Escape from prison and murder more people.

The solution for stopping murders from killing again is to execute them, same with rapists, same with pedos, and people who torture animals to death.

[Rostavykhan]

I used to be very left-leaning. But I have moderated a lot and now I'm a social democrat (a left-leaning social democrat though, like the current Labour Party under Corbyn). I'm now opposed to political extremism on both sides, this comment thread is quite disturbing.

I used to be more moderate after being far left for many years. I'm more radical than ever now, if only because I find moderates and the current political forces in power to be ultimately ineffective.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Never asked to be a prophet. Here in the good ol' USA, you can study hard in high school, go to a good community college, and land yourself a job.

Done. That is where I work.

But you're telling me that under your system, you're gonna replace it with...what? Hope and wishes and promises? Sprinkled with mass killing too.

I never said anything about mass killings.

[Norstal]

You're a critical realist huh?

How'd you managed to lump "most communists" when there's about 1 billion communists over there in that country called China who disagrees with you?

Well I'll give you that they used to agree with you, but I think they learned their lessons.

Roy Bhaskar, the founder of critical realism, was a libertarian Marxist (a communist who wants to end all forms of oppression). He was not a Maoist or a Chinese market socialist.

Liberty requires justice. Justice requires liberty. IMO, one without the other won't work.

I'd say killing people robs them of their liberty. Does that mean we should bring you to justice instead? How does that work I wonder.

[Ardoki]

You can't kill if you are imprisoned for life.

They can still:
- Kill other prisoners
- Kill a guard(s)
- Escape from prison and murder more people.

The solution for stopping murders from killing again is to execute them, same with rapists, same with pedos, and people who torture animals to death.

You don't kill people because they could kill in the future. Everyone has that capability.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

There most likely won't be a communist revolution in the western world, ever.

Then I mourn for the future.

[Norstal]

Never asked to be a prophet. Here in the good ol' USA, you can study hard in high school, go to a good community college, and land yourself a job.

Done. That is where I work.

But you're telling me that under your system, you're gonna replace it with...what? Hope and wishes and promises? Sprinkled with mass killing too.

I never said anything about mass killings.

Did you just invalidated your own beliefs in communism? Or are you like one of those Republican types who likes to destroy the things that made them successful?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

You don't need to be a criminologist to have an opinion.

Isn't that exactly what I have been doing? Giving my opinions.

[Geneviev]

I never said anything about mass killings.

You rather did. Killing capitalists, remember?

[Aillyria]

Roy Bhaskar, the founder of critical realism, was a libertarian Marxist (a communist who wants to end all forms of oppression). He was not a Maoist or a Chinese market socialist.

Liberty requires justice. Justice requires liberty. IMO, one without the other won't work.

I'd say killing people robs them of their liberty. Does that mean we should bring you to justice instead? How does that work I wonder.

Killing people who've proven themselves a threat to society is protecting the liberty of the community, the criminal has forfeited their right to liberty by violating the community.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Rehabilitation and prevention should be the goals of the criminal justice system, not punishment.

So say you. I beg to disagree. Now, certainly rehabilitation and prevention should be integrated into a criminal justice system. However, those are separate issues from punishment for crimes.

[Salus Maior]

Outside of bloodthirst and willingness to murder en-mass I suppose.

No, out of justice.

Vengeance, you mean.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Uhh, no, work it out now cause what you're saying is that I'm going to be imprisoned just cause I own a couple of stock options.

So do I. They are a part of my retirement account. However, I am talking about capitalists, not customers.

[Ardoki]

Rehabilitation and prevention should be the goals of the criminal justice system, not punishment.

So say you. I beg to disagree. Now, certainly rehabilitation and prevention should be integrated into a criminal justice system. However, those are separate issues from punishment for crimes.

Why do you think people should be punished? How are you better than them?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I'd say killing people robs them of their liberty. Does that mean we should bring you to justice instead? How does that work I wonder.

People rob themselves of their own liberty by committing murders, etc.

[Ardoki]

Uhh, no, work it out now cause what you're saying is that I'm going to be imprisoned just cause I own a couple of stock options.

So do I. They are a part of my retirement account. However, I am talking about capitalists, not customers.

If you own shares in a company, you are effectively a capitalist.