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Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Was Trotsky Polyamorous?

Yes
141
58%
Yes
103
42%
 
Total votes : 244

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Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:47 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:I knew it was hostile, but not that hostile. I hear a lot of capitalists say that socialism restricts personal freedom, and that the government intervenes in peoples lives. Given what I know about history, I can’t say they are entirely wrong... if I can at least be convinced capitalism is worse... I’m happy.


The hostility, among sociologists, it primarily toward mainstream, not heterodox, economics.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), hạ•ṣạdiyq
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West Leas Oros
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:I knew it was hostile, but not that hostile. I hear a lot of capitalists say that socialism restricts personal freedom, and that the government intervenes in peoples lives. Given what I know about history, I can’t say they are entirely wrong... if I can at least be convinced capitalism is worse... I’m happy.


The hostility, among sociologists, it primarily toward mainstream, not heterodox, economics.

I just want to know why capitalism is bad. Like with a good cohesive reason why it is objectively worse than socialism.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Rostavykhan
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Posts: 1930
Founded: Sep 30, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Corneliu Zelea Codreanu wrote:Mad respect to the three best men of Communism

1. Che Guevara
2. Mao Zedong
3. Pol Pot


> Not Comrade Stalin or Lenin.

Mao and Che are fine with me tho.
Last edited by Rostavykhan on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:57 pm

Rostavykhan wrote:
Corneliu Zelea Codreanu wrote:Mad respect to the three best men of Communism

1. Che Guevara
2. Mao Zedong
3. Pol Pot


> Not Comrade Stalin or Lenin.

Mao and Che are fine with me tho.

trotsky my dudes. It’s gotta be Trotsky
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Puczovska
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 48
Founded: Apr 02, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Puczovska » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Hallelujah. A left-wing thread. Well, here it goes...

I'm a commie.

*walks out*
[ (★) ]
( ^∀^)

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Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:01 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:I just want to know why capitalism is bad. Like with a good cohesive reason why it is objectively worse than socialism.


Because, under capitalism, the producers don't own the fruits of their labor.

As to socialism, it depends on the type. There are some forms of socialism, such as market socialism, I dislike.
Last edited by Democratic Communist Federation on Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), hạ•ṣạdiyq
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Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective. A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance):
Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى) ★ ⚑ ☭
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:02 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:trotsky my dudes. It’s gotta be Trotsky


If you like him that much, why did you use tiny fonts?
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), hạ•ṣạdiyq
Libertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealismThe MarkFoster.NETwork
Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective. A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance):
Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى) ★ ⚑ ☭
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Libertarian Marxist Communist Collective[/u][/color][/url]
libertarian communist/socialist/Marxist✹left–libertarian✹left communist. Libertarianism is anti-authoritarianism. Proud NEA Union Member!

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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:04 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:trotsky my dudes. It’s gotta be Trotsky


If you like him that much, why did you use tiny fonts?

I’m afraid to admit it. If I said I liked him... well let’s just say I will live life fearing ice picks.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:10 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:I’m afraid to admit it. If I said I liked him... well let’s just say I will live life fearing ice picks.


Putin has not put Trotskyists on his hit list.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), hạ•ṣạdiyq
Libertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealismThe MarkFoster.NETwork
Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective. A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance):
Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى) ★ ⚑ ☭
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Libertarian Marxist Communist Collective[/u][/color][/url]
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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:11 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:I’m afraid to admit it. If I said I liked him... well let’s just say I will live life fearing ice picks.


Putin has not put Trotskyists on his hit list.

But this forum has.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:13 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:But this forum has.


People don't agree on much of anything here.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), hạ•ṣạdiyq
Libertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealismThe MarkFoster.NETwork
Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective. A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance):
Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى) ★ ⚑ ☭
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Libertarian Marxist Communist Collective[/u][/color][/url]
libertarian communist/socialist/Marxist✹left–libertarian✹left communist. Libertarianism is anti-authoritarianism. Proud NEA Union Member!

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Reikoku
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Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:14 pm

Rostavykhan wrote:
Corneliu Zelea Codreanu wrote:Mad respect to the three best men of Communism

1. Che Guevara
2. Mao Zedong
3. Pol Pot


> Not Comrade Stalin or Lenin.

Mao and Che are fine with me tho.


Stalin is too incompetent to be on any best list. Lenin was a proleboo who spent most of his time in Swiss cafes before Daddy Wilhelm sent him on a train to Russia with money.

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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:21 pm

Reikoku wrote:
Rostavykhan wrote:
> Not Comrade Stalin or Lenin.

Mao and Che are fine with me tho.


Stalin is too incompetent to be on any best list. Lenin was a proleboo who spent most of his time in Swiss cafes before Daddy Wilhelm sent him on a train to Russia with money.

Trotsky my dudes, I’ll say it proud this time!
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:22 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:
Rostavykhan wrote:
> Not Comrade Stalin or Lenin.

Mao and Che are fine with me tho.

trotsky my dudes. It’s gotta be Trotsky

Trotsky was nuts. Change my mind.
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West Leas Oros
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:29 pm

Luminesa wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:trotsky my dudes. It’s gotta be Trotsky

Trotsky was nuts. Change my mind.

He was, but he would have been better than Stalin. I mean, Trotsky actually gave a shit about people in other countries, and probably was much less murderous. But... he still was a bit of a nut.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:30 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Trotsky was nuts. Change my mind.

He was, but he would have been better than Stalin. I mean, Trotsky actually gave a shit about people in other countries, and probably was much less murderous. But... he still was a bit of a nut.

Trotsky being less murderous is a meme started by Trotskyites. He was rabidly for things like religious persecution during the civil war.
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New Emeline
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Emeline » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:32 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Putin has not put Trotskyists on his hit list.

But this forum has.

We have?

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Taihei Tengoku
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Founded: Dec 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:36 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:I just want to know why capitalism is bad. Like with a good cohesive reason why it is objectively worse than socialism.


Because, under capitalism, the producers don't own the fruits of their labor.

But why is this inherently bad?
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West Leas Oros
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:37 pm

New Emeline wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:But this forum has.

We have?

Placing Stalin in high regards is a bit of a sign. But tbh, I’m not really a trot. Even he was a bit too authoritarian for me.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:42 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
The Proletarian Republic wrote:Traditionalists are basically fascists, next

:roll: I don’t really like TradCons as the next guy but come on calling them Fascist is a little much.


A bit wrong, but both are very far right positions. Tradcons are not genocidal though, however Franco showed they are not always above mass murder
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The Parkus Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:43 pm

New Emeline wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:But this forum has.

We have?

For being a nerd
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Posts: 3846
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:47 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:Placing Stalin in high regards is a bit of a sign. But tbh, I’m not really a trot. Even he was a bit too authoritarian for me.


I never really liked Trotsky, even when I was a Trotskyist. However, Tony Cliff smoothed out some of Trotsky's rougher edges.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), hạ•ṣạdiyq
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Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective. A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance):
Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى) ★ ⚑ ☭
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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Because, under capitalism, the producers don't own the fruits of their labor.

But why is this inherently bad?

Because would you want to have something taken from you, that you made, being paid less than the worth of the item you made?
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16243
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:52 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:But why is this inherently bad?

Because would you want to have something taken from you, that you made, being paid less than the worth of the item you made?


Well, if I didn't supply or own the materials, or the tools, or the location and marketing of the final sale, it wouldn't be unfair for others to get a share of the wealth.

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Aillyria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5026
Founded: Sep 13, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Aillyria » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:01 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:But this forum has.


People don't agree on much of anything here.

That's something we all agree on, lol. But yeah, most people here represent entirely different currents of "leftism". Of course, we can't even agree on what leftism even is either.
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist

West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".

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