Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

[Mujahidah]

Because Corbyn, for all his positives, is ultimately a twat.

whys that

Anyone who looks at ISIS and says "We don't need to fight that" is not deserving of any actual consideration.

[Jackania yugo]

let me fix this.
So...in modern politics...

Dirty Gommies--------------------------------Centrists who aren't dogmatic but ---------------------------------Nazis.
everyone accuses them of being enemy sympathizers

and then on the other hand

Anyone who isn't a--------------------------------People who realize why the state exists ---------------------------------Dun Tred on mee.
Dedicated, Merciless anarchist is a Nazi! and who have an understanding of the social contract

So the far left bottom left is what is commonly know as the "SJW" community.

[West Leas Oros]

let me fix this.
So...in modern politics...

Dirty Gommies--------------------------------Centrists who aren't dogmatic but ---------------------------------Nazis.
everyone accuses them of being enemy sympathizers

and then on the other hand

Anyone who isn't a--------------------------------People who realize why the state exists ---------------------------------Dun Tred on mee.
Dedicated, Merciless anarchist is a Nazi! and who have an understanding of the social contract

So the far left bottom left is what is commonly know as the "SJW" community.

Yeah, kinda. The bottom right are the damned ancaps, the top left are tankies, and the top right are Nazis. Everyone who isnt in the far end of these corners are probably capable of having a meaningful and insightful conversation and could function in a normal society. People on these four ends are pseudo-sociopaths.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Plot twist: Donald Trump is a secret Muslim.

Or a secret Rastafarian. Nah, that wouldn't work.

[Jackania yugo]

let me fix this.
So...in modern politics...

Dirty Gommies--------------------------------Centrists who aren't dogmatic but ---------------------------------Nazis.
everyone accuses them of being enemy sympathizers

and then on the other hand

Anyone who isn't a--------------------------------People who realize why the state exists ---------------------------------Dun Tred on mee.
Dedicated, Merciless anarchist is a Nazi! and who have an understanding of the social contract

b- Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
(Also, why not use the table tag? it makes understanding that mess easier)

Then what do you say is the right way to do it?

[West Leas Oros]

Plot twist: Donald Trump is a secret Muslim.

Or a secret Rastafarian. Nah, that wouldn't work.

Maybe Trump is an atheist. Just like Hitler was.
*sarcasm*

[Jackania yugo]

So the far left bottom left is what is commonly know as the "SJW" community.

Yeah, kinda. The bottom right are the damned ancaps, the top left are tankies, and the top right are Nazis. Everyone who isnt in the far end of these corners are probably capable of having a meaningful and insightful conversation and could function in a normal society. People on these four ends are pseudo-sociopaths.

Ah good, I'm not on any of those four ends. I actually consider my self a centrist.

I'm pro-equality (as in the real one, not the modern, pseudo-equality) but I also like capitalism.

[West Leas Oros]

Yeah, kinda. The bottom right are the damned ancaps, the top left are tankies, and the top right are Nazis. Everyone who isnt in the far end of these corners are probably capable of having a meaningful and insightful conversation and could function in a normal society. People on these four ends are pseudo-sociopaths.

Ah good, I'm not on any of those four ends. I actually consider my self a centrist.

I'm pro-equality (as in the real one, not the modern, pseudo-equality) but I also like capitalism.

Yeah. I'm against capitalism, but want it abolished by democratic means. i'm Somewhere between a socdem, demsoc, mildly ancom, moderately communist, and center-left.

[Reikoku]

So...in modern politics...

Nazis who--------------------------------All the moderate stuff----------------------------------Actual Nazis.
claim
they're not
Nazi's and
try and push
that "fact"
further by
punching
Nazi's yet
they are just
inverted Nazis.

Punching people doesn't make you a Nazi. Advocating ethnic cleansing and an Aryan ethno-state does.

[Jackania yugo]

So...in modern politics...

Nazis who--------------------------------All the moderate stuff----------------------------------Actual Nazis.
claim
they're not
Nazi's and
try and push
that "fact"
further by
punching
Nazi's yet
they are just
inverted Nazis.

Punching people doesn't make you a Nazi. Advocating ethnic cleansing and an Aryan ethno-state does.

Well, I should of mentioned that aswell.

I mean, these "SJW's" don't like men, white people, heterosexuals Etc. Basically hate the groups the Nazi's liked and vice-versa.

[Pilarcraft]

So...in modern politics...

Nazis who--------------------------------All the moderate stuff----------------------------------Actual Nazis.
claim
they're not
Nazi's and
try and push
that "fact"
further by
punching
Nazi's yet
they are just
inverted Nazis.

Punching people doesn't make you a Nazi. Advocating ethnic cleansing and an Aryan ethno-state does.

Idk. isn't fascism when you hit people? or something? I missed most of my history classes I just remember blackshirts in italy or something.

[West Leas Oros]

So...in modern politics...

Nazis who--------------------------------All the moderate stuff----------------------------------Actual Nazis.
claim
they're not
Nazi's and
try and push
that "fact"
further by
punching
Nazi's yet
they are just
inverted Nazis.

Punching people doesn't make you a Nazi. Advocating ethnic cleansing and an Aryan ethno-state does.

Punching people makes you an asshole, but not a nazi. Killing people and advocating the violent overthrow of capitalism and the state makes you an anarcho-communist, which do awful things to innocent people, but hey, they aren't nazis so they must be the good guys!

[West Leas Oros]

Punching people doesn't make you a Nazi. Advocating ethnic cleansing and an Aryan ethno-state does.

Idk. isn't fascism when you hit people? or something? I missed most of my history classes I just remember blackshirts in italy or something.

Fascism according to Merriam Webster Dictionary
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

[Pilarcraft]

Punching people doesn't make you a Nazi. Advocating ethnic cleansing and an Aryan ethno-state does.

Well, I should of mentioned that aswell.

I mean, these "SJW's" don't like men, white people, heterosexuals Etc. Basically hate the groups the Nazi's liked and vice-versa.

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Maybe Trump is an atheist. Just like Hitler was.
*sarcasm*

Seriously, though, it is hard to know what Trump believes. He is the least curious president in my lifetime. I would, honestly, not be surprised if had never even thought of the subject. I guess that would make him an apatheist.

[Ostroeuropa]

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

Homoosian v Homoiosian.
Not sufficiently important then, not sufficiently important now, considering the proper doctrine of Egalitarianism and that both Naziism and Feminism are heresies.

( Homoosian means "of the same substance" and Homoiosian means "Of similar substance.", both were involved in the argument over the trinity and ultimately regarded as heresies worthy of banishment.)

[West Leas Oros]

Well, I should of mentioned that aswell.

I mean, these "SJW's" don't like men, white people, heterosexuals Etc. Basically hate the groups the Nazi's liked and vice-versa.

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

Ah, I see. The actions of a group in the past make the current people guilty? mass guilt by association? all white men are in damnatio memoraie? are they all evil? ALL of them or MOST of them are responsible for bad things done by past generations? So the GROUP is responsible for the actions of an elite few among them? I knew Pilarcraftians were SJWs!

[Proctopeo]

Well, I should of mentioned that aswell.

I mean, these "SJW's" don't like men, white people, heterosexuals Etc. Basically hate the groups the Nazi's liked and vice-versa.

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

tbf there are people who want to kill all men/white people/straights/insert blanket "oppressor class" here unironically. It's just that they probably don't want to gas them.

[Pilarcraft]

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

tbf there are people who want to kill all men/white people/straights/insert blanket "oppressor class" here unironically. It's just that they probably don't want to gas them.

that's a good point.

[Pilarcraft]

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

Ah, I see. The actions of a group in the past make the current people guilty? mass guilt by association? all white men are in damnatio memoraie? are they all evil? ALL of them or MOST of them are responsible for bad things done by past generations? So the GROUP is responsible for the actions of an elite few among them? I knew Pilarcraftians were SJWs!

if you really need something to be underline

[Ostroeuropa]

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

tbf there are people who want to kill all men/white people/straights/insert blanket "oppressor class" here unironically. It's just that they probably don't want to gas them.

Run the figures on the number of suicides resulting from PTSD, and then factor in the differing treatment of male rape victims and domestic violence victims and all that jazz, alongside higher workplace deaths, stress related deaths from focusing the workplace reforms on women being disadvantaged rather than accepting men are (Because they have worse work-life balance and we should be seeking to emulate womens situation, not the reverse), etc, etc.

It's not akin to Naziism in most cases. (In some. Duluth is Naziesque, in that it is born of a sincere feminist belief in something absolutely abhorrent and sexist that subjects men to a double standard, resulting in some deaths and some being unfairly packed into incarceration effectively for nothing more than being men.) In most cases, it's more akin to outright racist negligence and lack of giving a fuck, like the famine that killed millions in India from the British going "Pffft, who cares, we're hungry."

Feminism is supremacist and more akin to imperialism, though some acts of feminism are more naziesque.

Feminism As Imperialism also neatly deals with the issue of "But, the indian princes are indian. So indians still run india." nonsense.

Whose interests do those people serve?

It also reveals the solution. Feminism has to be made to concede that mens issues and discussions of them are not theirs to control, that their long history of abuses against men has made that impossible, and that an independent mens movement is the only solution. That continuing ti insist feminist discourse has claim to men and their problems is perpetuating a system of exploitation and mistreatment, etc.

That non-misandrist feminists and the fact they have cottoned on to past abuses and the need for dire reforms to make their empire more fair are too late, and need to accept it is not their decision and the fact they think it might be is merely more imperialist arrogance. Decolonize the mens movement.

[West Leas Oros]

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

tbf there are people who want to kill all men/white people/straights/insert blanket "oppressor class" here unironically. It's just that they probably don't want to gas them.

They probably don't want to gas them. Maybe shoot them? nah. waste of a good bullet. Hang them? nah. need a lot of ropes, and isnt very efficient. Beheading? nah. usually only good for when a few people are being killed. Come on! There's got to be an easy way to kill a large percentage of the population with little to no effort! *sarcasm*

[Simad]

> Doesn't like men
> Hasn't stated support for gassing men
> Hasn't made it a platform for making gassing men into an industry
> Hasn't fucking gassed any men


Sometimes, I feel like people don't exactly understand how "Patriarchy, established by men ages ago and maintained, mostly, by men right now, is responsible for the problems women face", "Homophobia, established by heterosexuals ages ago and maintained, mostly, by heterosexuals right now, is responsible for the problems non-heteros face" etc. etc, while wrong, is not equal to "Jews are not human, they should be made extinct."

Ah, I see. The actions of a group in the past make the current people guilty? mass guilt by association? all white men are in damnatio memoraie? are they all evil? ALL of them or MOST of them are responsible for bad things done by past generations? So the GROUP is responsible for the actions of an elite few among them? I knew Pilarcraftians were SJWs!

Ah-ah! Gotcha! I kNEW pLARcRAfTIANS WErE sJWs!

[Simad]

to be fair, a Federalized Europe is the rational end-game of the European Union. It isn't likely to survive as it is for much longer. Every Economic/political union dies at some point. And a Federalized Europe will need a point of union. "United in Diversity" might sound a cool motto, but in practice, you need some common ground to unite people around.

That's a whole different issue and not really relevant to what the EU is now. An actual united Europe in the vein of the US would be nigh impossible unless it were organized as a confederation, and I prefer not to dwell on unrealistic hypotheticals.

Federated Europe is the only rational end for the UE but that will not change the individual Nations cultures at all

[Pilarcraft]

That's a whole different issue and not really relevant to what the EU is now. An actual united Europe in the vein of the US would be nigh impossible unless it were organized as a confederation, and I prefer not to dwell on unrealistic hypotheticals.

Federated Europe is the only rational end for the UE but that will not change the individual Nations cultures at all

I do agree with you. it's not like, say, Different american states literally have the same culture with their individual cultures all destroyed or sth