NationStates

Anti-natalism is the pretty much the belief that giving birth is immoral. Believers of this philosophy assign a negative value to birth. They would believe that it's better to not have been born. By giving birth, you're exposing a human to pain, disease, injury, or any other misfortune life has to offer. This can be compared to Negative utilitarianism, which gives greater priority to reducing suffering than maximizing happiness. Looking at this, I came to believe that the previous two ideas are closely related to nihilism, the belief that all life is meaningless.

Personally, I find anti natalism to be an interesting philosophy. I do agree with several principles of nihilism (mainly existential nihilism), so there would be no point in me having children. However, I'm sure a majority of people would assign a positive value to life and birth, and thus conclude that anti natalism makes no sense. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for reproduction, but then again, no one asked to be born. Are we here simply to reproduce and pass on our genes? If so, what is the ultimate goal? What exactly is our purpose? How would you explain the existence of people who aren't heterosexuals? I don't think it's wrong to have children because it appears that our purpose is to have children. However, they cannot be guaranteed a perfect happy life. If someone wants children, then they should have them, but only if they can reasonably afford and raise them properly. I believe that people who can't afford to have children shouldn't have any. You're giving them an unnecessary disadvantage and exposing them to more pain than they otherwise would have, if they had better circumstances. I'm not saying we should ban poorer people from having children (such a proposal is a violation of human rights and also impossible), but people should really be more careful when thinking about having children.

No, it's not wrong to have children, although I fully understand those who choose not to.

As for if it is better to be or not to be, well... that really is the question, isn't it?

No...

Children are there to continue the species, so Antinatalism is antihuman

No, it's not wrong to have children if you and your significant other (should you have one involved) want to.

"Are we here simply to reproduce and pass on our genes?"
Pretty much yes.

"If so, what is the ultimate goal? What exactly is our purpose?"
To achieve (or get as close as possible to achieving) communisim and reach a automated utopia.

Silly ideology, if I do say.

No.

/endthread

No.

/thread

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:No.

/thread

Someone beat you to it already.

Herzegovenia wrote:"Are we here simply to reproduce and pass on our genes?"
Pretty much yes.

"If so, what is the ultimate goal? What exactly is our purpose?"
To achieve (or get as close as possible to achieving) communisim and reach a automated utopia.

A utopia can never exist. Even the creator of the concept of utopia, Thomas More, created a world which we would describe as a "dystopia". I believe that reaching perfection is impossible, but we should always strive to create the best society we can. What are your ideas on how to get close to a utopia

Asardia wrote:

Herzegovenia wrote:"Are we here simply to reproduce and pass on our genes?"
Pretty much yes.

"If so, what is the ultimate goal? What exactly is our purpose?"
To achieve (or get as close as possible to achieving) communisim and reach a automated utopia.

A utopia can never exist. Even the creator of the concept of utopia, Thomas More, created a world which we would describe as a "dystopia". I believe that reaching perfection is impossible, but we should always strive to create the best society we can. What are your ideas on how to get close to a utopia

Just because Utopia can never exist doesn't mean that you shouldn't have children. Thats like saying "I'll never be perfect, so I quit." If thats your attitude you shouldn't do anything - because you will never be perfect.

Mujahidah wrote:

Asardia wrote:
A utopia can never exist. Even the creator of the concept of utopia, Thomas More, created a world which we would describe as a "dystopia". I believe that reaching perfection is impossible, but we should always strive to create the best society we can. What are your ideas on how to get close to a utopia

Just because Utopia can never exist doesn't mean that you shouldn't have children. Thats like saying "I'll never be perfect, so I quit." If thats your attitude you shouldn't do anything - because you will never be perfect.

I wasn't trying to say that we shouldn't have children because a utopia can never exist. I was simply saying a utopia can never exist, and trying to create one would lead to a dystopia. This is kind of off topic from the original point of the post, but that was all I was saying. We need to improve our current society and ourselves, I'm not disagreeing with you there.

Asardia wrote:

Mujahidah wrote:
Just because Utopia can never exist doesn't mean that you shouldn't have children. Thats like saying "I'll never be perfect, so I quit." If thats your attitude you shouldn't do anything - because you will never be perfect.

I wasn't trying to say that we shouldn't have children because a utopia can never exist. I was simply saying a utopia can never exist, and trying to create one would lead to a dystopia. This is kind of off topic from the original point of the post, but that was all I was saying. We need to improve our current society and ourselves, I'm not disagreeing with you there.

Re-reading your post it seems you give no opinion on whether or not it is wrong to have children. You just say its an 'interesting thought' and provide a bunch of questions. You might want to give an opinion up there through an edit - it will make discussion easier

Wrong to breed? That's kind of a grey area; people might not treat kids they adopt like they would treat kids they brought into the world, and if shame were the only thing making them choose adoption, this could have negative side-effects.

Wrong to breed too much? Hell yes. Even if you only have children you can afford, that doesn't mean you aren't having more children than the environment can afford.

Wrong to breed at all, though? That's ridiculous. Humanity is remarkably unique among all the world's animals. It doesn't need to go extinct. Just to exist in lower numbers.

I don't judge people for having kids, but I wish everyone would either decide not to have kids, or adopt.

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Wrong to breed too much? Hell yes. Even if you only have children you can afford, that doesn't mean you aren't having more children than the environment can afford.

We are hardly at the point of outstripping the land. Overpopulation is an overhyped crock of crap at this point.

Given how much money they cost, yes.

Vovodoco wrote:I don't judge people for having kids, but I wish everyone would either decide not to have kids, or adopt.

Why shouldn't people give birth?

Mujahidah wrote:

Asardia wrote:
I wasn't trying to say that we shouldn't have children because a utopia can never exist. I was simply saying a utopia can never exist, and trying to create one would lead to a dystopia. This is kind of off topic from the original point of the post, but that was all I was saying. We need to improve our current society and ourselves, I'm not disagreeing with you there.

Re-reading your post it seems you give no opinion on whether or not it is wrong to have children. You just say its an 'interesting thought' and provide a bunch of questions. You might want to give an opinion up there through an edit - it will make discussion easier

You're right. I edited the post and gave a more thorough opinion. I don't think it's wrong to have children if you can afford them

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Given how much money they cost, yes.

Children aren't a commodity. Their cost is irrelevant. Parents will make it work, as every generation of parents have done.

Asardia wrote:

Mujahidah wrote:
Re-reading your post it seems you give no opinion on whether or not it is wrong to have children. You just say its an 'interesting thought' and provide a bunch of questions. You might want to give an opinion up there through an edit - it will make discussion easier

You're right. I edited the post and gave a more thorough opinion. I don't think it's wrong to have children if you can afford them

Thank you. I would agree that having children when you have no ability to support them would be a rather stupid, and I'd argue at least, wrong thing to do.

Majea wrote:

Vovodoco wrote:I don't judge people for having kids, but I wish everyone would either decide not to have kids, or adopt.

Why shouldn't people give birth?

A couple wants kids.

"We want some kids!" - says the couple.

"Great!" -says some orphans. "Well we want some parents!"

'Awww how cute!" -says the couple. "But here's the thing: fuck you. We want an alien looking creature that looks like us. Enjoy your
high recidivism rate. Just know that your life of poverty helped fuel our weird evolutionary impulse to go through an uncomfortable 9 months, an excruciating procedure, and helped bring a new child into the world!... who will then go on to compete with you in the market place with the advantage of a better education.

They will also consume natural resources.

Trust us, it'll be worth it."

I know couples that give birth don't think that way, but if it's possible to overcome the weird birthing impulse we have, we need to fucking do it any chance we get.

Vovodoco wrote:

Majea wrote:Why shouldn't people give birth?

A couple wants kids.

"We want some kids!" - says the couple.

"Great!" -says some orphans. "Well we want some parents!"

'Awww how cute!" -says the couple. "But here's the thing: fuck you. We want an alien looking creature that looks like us. Enjoy your
high recidivism rate. Just know that your life of poverty helped fuel our weird evolutionary impulse to go through an uncomfortable 9 months, an excruciating procedure, and helped bring a new child into the world!... who will then go on to compete with you in the market place with the advantage of a better education.

They will also consume natural resources.

Trust us, it'll be worth it."

I know couples that give birth don't think that way, but if it's possible to overcome the weird birthing impulse we have, we need to fucking do it any chance we get.

One can both have children of their own and charitably care for orphans. They aren't mutually exclusive

Asardia wrote: Are we here simply to reproduce and pass on our genes? If so, what is the ultimate goal? What exactly is our purpose? I don't think it's wrong to have children because it appears that our purpose is to have children. However, they cannot be guaranteed a perfect happy life. If someone wants children, then they should have them, but only if they can reasonably afford and raise them properly. I believe that people who can't afford to have children shouldn't have any. You're giving them an unnecessary disadvantage and exposing them to more pain than they otherwise would have, if they had better circumstances. I'm not saying we should ban poorer people from having children (such a proposal is a violation of human rights and also impossible), but people should really be more careful when thinking about having children.

Poor people are quite happy to be alive. It's frankly ridiculous to say poor people don't enjoy their lives. Happiness is not dependent on material wealth.

Being alive is far better than never existing. Even if your life is a miserable failure, at least you got to experience something.

Vovodoco wrote:

Majea wrote:Why shouldn't people give birth?

A couple wants kids.

"We want some kids!" - says the couple.

"Great!" -says some orphans. "Well we want some parents!"

'Awww how cute!" -says the couple. "But here's the thing: fuck you. We want an alien looking creature that looks like us. Enjoy your
high recidivism rate. Just know that your life of poverty helped fuel our weird evolutionary impulse to go through an uncomfortable 9 months, an excruciating procedure, and helped bring a new child into the world!... who will then go on to compete with you in the market place with the advantage of a better education.

They will also consume natural resources.

Trust us, it'll be worth it."

I know couples that give birth don't think that way, but if it's possible to overcome the weird birthing impulse we have, we need to fucking do it any chance we get.

I don't even know what to say about this