Trump MAGAThread XII: A Tarriff-ic Thread!

[Aellex]

America does not get to decide the foreign policy of the EU. Fine if America wants to screw itself over the Iran deal; Europe will not play ball. Trump is not a European president.

Usually America gets what it wants by being more subtle than this. Though Europe normally goes along since, you know, global hegemon and all that.

""""More subtle""""
You're aware that America routinely put economic sanctions on Europe for daring to disagree with its wishes, right?
It's not like it's something Trump came up with, Bush did the same shit back when Irak happened.

[Conserative Morality]

America does not get to decide the foreign policy of the EU. Fine if America wants to screw itself over the Iran deal; Europe will not play ball. Trump is not a European president.

Usually America gets what it wants by being more subtle than this. Though Europe normally goes along since, you know, global hegemon and all that.

How we used to threaten.

How we threaten now.

[Oil exporting People]

I don't see what's wrong with this; the U.S. using economic levers to force compliance with its foreign policy objectives is a long established instrument in Washington's playbook and has been around the world for sometime.

America does not get to decide the foreign policy of the EU. Fine if America wants to screw itself over the Iran deal; Europe will not play ball. Trump is not a European president.

As reigning Superpower, we get to do whatever the hell we want. You can argue about the morality and legality of such all you want, but at the end of the day we have the power and the right to exercise it over the Euros as much as we want.

[Galloism]

How we used to threaten.

[Internationalist Bastard]

America does not get to decide the foreign policy of the EU. Fine if America wants to screw itself over the Iran deal; Europe will not play ball. Trump is not a European president.

As reigning Superpower, we get to do whatever the hell we want. You can argue about the morality and legality of such all you want, but at the end of the day we have the power and the right to exercise it over the Euros as much as we want.

And if it was the other way you wouldn’t have a problem?

[Maineiacs]

America does not get to decide the foreign policy of the EU. Fine if America wants to screw itself over the Iran deal; Europe will not play ball. Trump is not a European president.

As reigning Superpower, we get to do whatever the hell we want. You can argue about the morality and legality of such all you want, but at the end of the day we have the power and the right to exercise it over the Euros as much as we want.

No, we have the ability to do it. No such right exists, regardless of whether you, Trump or anyone else says it does.

[Oil exporting People]

As reigning Superpower, we get to do whatever the hell we want. You can argue about the morality and legality of such all you want, but at the end of the day we have the power and the right to exercise it over the Euros as much as we want.

No, we have the ability to do it. No such right exists, regardless of whether you, Trump or anyone else says it does.

As I said, you can debate the morality and legality of it as much as you want; ultimately we have the power to do so and thus the right to do.

And if it was the other way you wouldn’t have a problem?

I wouldn't have a choice, so my opinion would be irrelevant.

[Ifreann]

Well, John Bolton has flown off the rails and is now threatening our European allies with sanctions if they continue on with the Iran Deal: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/politics ... index.html

I don't see what's wrong with this; the U.S. using economic levers to force compliance with its foreign policy objectives is a long established instrument in Washington's playbook and has been around the world for sometime.

What's wrong is that America was achieving its foreign policy objectives just fine until Trump decided that any deal he didn't make is unacceptable. Now instead of America's allies cooperating because it's in their interests to do so, Trump is having to try to bully them into acting against their interests to bolster his ego.

[Internationalist Bastard]

No, we have the ability to do it. No such right exists, regardless of whether you, Trump or anyone else says it does.

As I said, you can debate the morality and legality of it as much as you want; ultimately we have the power to do so and thus the right to do.

And if it was the other way you wouldn’t have a problem?

I wouldn't have a choice, so my opinion would be irrelevant.

You can be against the idea of super powers

[Oil exporting People]

I don't see what's wrong with this; the U.S. using economic levers to force compliance with its foreign policy objectives is a long established instrument in Washington's playbook and has been around the world for sometime.

What's wrong is that America was achieving its foreign policy objectives just fine until Trump decided that any deal he didn't make is unacceptable. Now instead of America's allies cooperating because it's in their interests to do so, Trump is having to try to bully them into acting against their interests to bolster his ego.

Eliminating the deal is perfectly in line with American foreign policy objectives at this point; ISIS is dead, more or less. Now, Iran has become an issue again as it appears set to establish a line of allied states all the way to the Med in the form of Syria and Iraq, while is also gravely endangering the Arab states to the South. Removing the benefits the deal provided to America, particularly at a time when Iran is already under severe strain and thus might be induced to collapse, makes perfect geopolitical sense. We've always bullied our allies and that's not changed at all here; see the term "power".

[Ifreann]

What's wrong is that America was achieving its foreign policy objectives just fine until Trump decided that any deal he didn't make is unacceptable. Now instead of America's allies cooperating because it's in their interests to do so, Trump is having to try to bully them into acting against their interests to bolster his ego.

Eliminating the deal is perfectly in line with American foreign policy objectives at this point; ISIS is dead, more or less. Now, Iran has become an issue again as it appears set to establish a line of allied states all the way to the Med in the form of Syria and Iraq, while is also gravely endangering the Arab states to the South. Removing the benefits the deal provided to America, particularly at a time when Iran is already under severe strain and thus might be induced to collapse, makes perfect geopolitical sense.

Eliminating the deal is 100% about Trump's ego.

We've always bullied our allies and that's not changed at all here; see the term "power".

The point is that America now needs to expend effort to get the cooperation of their allies, when previously they did not.

[The East Marches II]

I don't see what's wrong with this; the U.S. using economic levers to force compliance with its foreign policy objectives is a long established instrument in Washington's playbook and has been around the world for sometime.

America does not get to decide the foreign policy of the EU. Fine if America wants to screw itself over the Iran deal; Europe will not play ball. Trump is not a European president.

No he isn't but apparently Mr.Erdogan gets to do so anyway, it is no wonder Mr. Trump will now give that a try!

[Kvatchdom]

I'm very relieved that the US was the only party to pull out of the deal. Alienating a country with a heavily westernised population (For a middle-eastern country) does no good, especially in the matters of international trade. I just hope this doesn't give the conservative factions in Iran a "Ha I told you so" moment so they can try and fuck up an election again for their favour with less resistance.

[Hittanryan]

What's wrong is that America was achieving its foreign policy objectives just fine until Trump decided that any deal he didn't make is unacceptable. Now instead of America's allies cooperating because it's in their interests to do so, Trump is having to try to bully them into acting against their interests to bolster his ego.

Eliminating the deal is perfectly in line with American foreign policy objectives at this point; ISIS is dead, more or less. Now, Iran has become an issue again as it appears set to establish a line of allied states all the way to the Med in the form of Syria and Iraq, while is also gravely endangering the Arab states to the South. Removing the benefits the deal provided to America, particularly at a time when Iran is already under severe strain and thus might be induced to collapse, makes perfect geopolitical sense. We've always bullied our allies and that's not changed at all here; see the term "power".

Tell me, what will Iran becoming a nuclear power do to American power in the Middle East? Where is the version of Trump’s decision which ends with America stronger?

[Kvatchdom]

Eliminating the deal is perfectly in line with American foreign policy objectives at this point; ISIS is dead, more or less. Now, Iran has become an issue again as it appears set to establish a line of allied states all the way to the Med in the form of Syria and Iraq, while is also gravely endangering the Arab states to the South. Removing the benefits the deal provided to America, particularly at a time when Iran is already under severe strain and thus might be induced to collapse, makes perfect geopolitical sense. We've always bullied our allies and that's not changed at all here; see the term "power".

Tell me, what will Iran becoming a nuclear power do to American power in the Middle East? Where is the version of Trump’s decision which ends with America stronger?

Iran will continue to be monitored by the subject agency, even as the US leaves the deal.

[Liriena]

America, what the fuck?

Between October 2016 and December 2017, he said, the agency was unable to locate almost 1,500 out of the 7,635 minors that it attempted to reach — or about 19 percent. Over two dozen had run away, according to Wagner, who said the agency did not have the capacity to track them down.

Sponsors are meant to ensure that minors show up at their immigration hearings. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) pressed Wagner on why more than half of unaccompanied minors in 2017 did not show up to their immigration hearings. When asked how HHS tracks the missing children, Wagner said that finding out whether children have attended their immigration hearing is not part of its protocol.

“We do not know who is showing up and who isn’t,” he said. “We don’t know those kids … We don’t follow up to ensure they go to the hearing.”

Wagner told the committee that since February 2016, HHS has gone to greater lengths to verify the identity of potential sponsors of unaccompanied minors, and worked to crack down on the ability of sponsors to use fraudulent documents during the placement process. A new agreement reached this month between HHS and the Department of Homeland Security establishes policies for the agencies to better share information to help screen potential sponsors.

Senators also expressed concern that state and local officials are not usually notified when unaccompanied minors are placed in their jurisdiction. Wagner said that it was an “issue of practicality” that would require contacting a substantial list of local agencies.

“If a child is being, for instance, kept at home and abused by a sponsor, and a local school doesn’t even know the child is supposed to be going there, then some of the usual triggers that we have for protecting children can’t be triggered,” Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) said.

[Ifreann]

America, what the fuck?

Between October 2016 and December 2017, he said, the agency was unable to locate almost 1,500 out of the 7,635 minors that it attempted to reach — or about 19 percent. Over two dozen had run away, according to Wagner, who said the agency did not have the capacity to track them down.

Sponsors are meant to ensure that minors show up at their immigration hearings. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) pressed Wagner on why more than half of unaccompanied minors in 2017 did not show up to their immigration hearings. When asked how HHS tracks the missing children, Wagner said that finding out whether children have attended their immigration hearing is not part of its protocol.

“We do not know who is showing up and who isn’t,” he said. “We don’t know those kids … We don’t follow up to ensure they go to the hearing.”

Wagner told the committee that since February 2016, HHS has gone to greater lengths to verify the identity of potential sponsors of unaccompanied minors, and worked to crack down on the ability of sponsors to use fraudulent documents during the placement process. A new agreement reached this month between HHS and the Department of Homeland Security establishes policies for the agencies to better share information to help screen potential sponsors.

Senators also expressed concern that state and local officials are not usually notified when unaccompanied minors are placed in their jurisdiction. Wagner said that it was an “issue of practicality” that would require contacting a substantial list of local agencies.

“If a child is being, for instance, kept at home and abused by a sponsor, and a local school doesn’t even know the child is supposed to be going there, then some of the usual triggers that we have for protecting children can’t be triggered,” Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) said.

Kids are small, it's hard to keep track of them.

[Telconi]

Eliminating the deal is perfectly in line with American foreign policy objectives at this point; ISIS is dead, more or less. Now, Iran has become an issue again as it appears set to establish a line of allied states all the way to the Med in the form of Syria and Iraq, while is also gravely endangering the Arab states to the South. Removing the benefits the deal provided to America, particularly at a time when Iran is already under severe strain and thus might be induced to collapse, makes perfect geopolitical sense.

Eliminating the deal is 100% about Trump's ego.

We've always bullied our allies and that's not changed at all here; see the term "power".

The point is that America now needs to expend effort to get the cooperation of their allies, when previously they did not.

Well given that such an executive deal is based entirely on the present desires of the administration, That has become the objective, "Stroke off the Donald". Problem with executive decisions is they only exist so long as the executive wants them to.

[Geneviev]

Well, this is disappointing.

[The East Marches II]

Well, this is disappointing.

Accounting for other factors, it's merely 30% increase in military spending. What a tragedy indeed he merely used the raw numbers.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, this is disappointing.

Accounting for other factors, it's merely 30% increase in military spending. What a tragedy indeed he merely used the raw numbers.

And none of the context, like how it was on par with overall government spending increases. This is lying without lying, the statesmen's version of "I'm not touuuuuching you..." The raw numbers tell a specific but not entirely truthful story, it's manipulative. Putting shit in actual context and pointing to when a narrative is being formed by selective information is one of the chief duties of a free and fair press, which the Donald now refers to as 'fake news.'

[Thermodolia]

America, what the fuck?

Between October 2016 and December 2017, he said, the agency was unable to locate almost 1,500 out of the 7,635 minors that it attempted to reach — or about 19 percent. Over two dozen had run away, according to Wagner, who said the agency did not have the capacity to track them down.

Sponsors are meant to ensure that minors show up at their immigration hearings. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) pressed Wagner on why more than half of unaccompanied minors in 2017 did not show up to their immigration hearings. When asked how HHS tracks the missing children, Wagner said that finding out whether children have attended their immigration hearing is not part of its protocol.

“We do not know who is showing up and who isn’t,” he said. “We don’t know those kids … We don’t follow up to ensure they go to the hearing.”

Wagner told the committee that since February 2016, HHS has gone to greater lengths to verify the identity of potential sponsors of unaccompanied minors, and worked to crack down on the ability of sponsors to use fraudulent documents during the placement process. A new agreement reached this month between HHS and the Department of Homeland Security establishes policies for the agencies to better share information to help screen potential sponsors.

Senators also expressed concern that state and local officials are not usually notified when unaccompanied minors are placed in their jurisdiction. Wagner said that it was an “issue of practicality” that would require contacting a substantial list of local agencies.

“If a child is being, for instance, kept at home and abused by a sponsor, and a local school doesn’t even know the child is supposed to be going there, then some of the usual triggers that we have for protecting children can’t be triggered,” Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) said.

CPS is shit, water is wet, sky is blue, news at 11

[Valrifell]

Accounting for other factors, it's merely 30% increase in military spending. What a tragedy indeed he merely used the raw numbers.

And none of the context, like how it was on par with overall government spending increases. This is lying without lying, the statesmen's version of "I'm not touuuuuching you..." The raw numbers tell a specific but not entirely truthful story, it's manipulative. Putting shit in actual context and pointing to when a narrative is being formed by selective information is one of the chief duties of a free and fair press, which the Donald now refers to as 'fake news.'

It's a shame, but Trump isn't entirely wrong with his criticisms of American media. At heart, I mean.

The way he goes about it and what he criticizes are completely inappropriate and flat-out wrong, but there I do think there are a lot of issues with America's sensationalist news networks, particularly when a handful of companies own those networks. And half of them pay tithe to the Mouse. Most of these issues are fairly solvable, though, and Trump is actively making finding those solutions for the benefit of the Republic much harder.

[Cannot think of a name]

America, what the fuck?

Between October 2016 and December 2017, he said, the agency was unable to locate almost 1,500 out of the 7,635 minors that it attempted to reach — or about 19 percent. Over two dozen had run away, according to Wagner, who said the agency did not have the capacity to track them down.

Sponsors are meant to ensure that minors show up at their immigration hearings. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) pressed Wagner on why more than half of unaccompanied minors in 2017 did not show up to their immigration hearings. When asked how HHS tracks the missing children, Wagner said that finding out whether children have attended their immigration hearing is not part of its protocol.

“We do not know who is showing up and who isn’t,” he said. “We don’t know those kids … We don’t follow up to ensure they go to the hearing.”

Wagner told the committee that since February 2016, HHS has gone to greater lengths to verify the identity of potential sponsors of unaccompanied minors, and worked to crack down on the ability of sponsors to use fraudulent documents during the placement process. A new agreement reached this month between HHS and the Department of Homeland Security establishes policies for the agencies to better share information to help screen potential sponsors.

Senators also expressed concern that state and local officials are not usually notified when unaccompanied minors are placed in their jurisdiction. Wagner said that it was an “issue of practicality” that would require contacting a substantial list of local agencies.

“If a child is being, for instance, kept at home and abused by a sponsor, and a local school doesn’t even know the child is supposed to be going there, then some of the usual triggers that we have for protecting children can’t be triggered,” Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) said.

CPS is shit, water is wet, sky is blue, news at 11

Every time I see "water is wet" et al I feel like we should take a brick away to symbolize the level of bullshit we've decided to accept and normalize. Don't bring up malfeasance, we'll just stamp "We're okay with this" on it with some canned cynicism and move on.

[Cannot think of a name]

And none of the context, like how it was on par with overall government spending increases. This is lying without lying, the statesmen's version of "I'm not touuuuuching you..." The raw numbers tell a specific but not entirely truthful story, it's manipulative. Putting shit in actual context and pointing to when a narrative is being formed by selective information is one of the chief duties of a free and fair press, which the Donald now refers to as 'fake news.'

It's a shame, but Trump isn't entirely wrong with his criticisms of American media. At heart, I mean.

The way he goes about it and what he criticizes are completely inappropriate and flat-out wrong, but there I do think there are a lot of issues with America's sensationalist news networks, particularly when a handful of companies own those networks. And half of them pay tithe to the Mouse. Most of these issues are fairly solvable, though, and Trump is actively making finding those solutions for the benefit of the Republic much harder.

It's a bit like saying the guy smashing the car with a sledgehammer has a point because one of the tires is flat.