Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Olerand]

I don't believe the other poster is American, and neither am I.

Ostro is welsh and you are of course Italian.

The most Italian of Italians. As any good Italian, I too believe Angela Merkel is unfuckable. Don't even get me started on my world-renowned bunga bunga parties...

[San Lumen]

I dont see a massive amount of support for Islamic fundamentalism in my country.

What do you mean by crack down? You are familiar with the first amendment correct?

Neither of us are Americans and as I noted, the problem is less severe in the USA, and Muslims there appear less radicalized.

Your from Wales correct? I dont think there is huge problem with radical Muslims in the UK either.

[San Lumen]

in what way?

Muslims in a kufr government disobeying the orders of Allah SWT is haram in Al-Islam.

As Attorney General Ellison has a obligation to enforce the law of the state. His religion cannot factor into it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Muslims in a kufr government disobeying the orders of Allah SWT is haram in Al-Islam.

As Attorney General Ellison has a obligation to enforce the law of the state. His religion cannot factor into it.

Then he should resign.

[Olerand]

Neither of us are Americans and as I noted, the problem is less severe in the USA, and Muslims there appear less radicalized.

Your from Wales correct? I dont think there is huge problem with radical Muslims in the UK either.

Uh, I... Bunga bunga indeed.

[Major-Tom]

A moderate white christian being elected to office does not disprove the threat of the Klan and the need to crack down on that culture. A muslim being elected to office does not disprove the threat of Islamic fundamentalism in our countries and the need to crack down on that culture.

I dont see a massive amount of support for Islamic fundamentalism in my country.

What do you mean by crack down? You are familiar with the first amendment correct?

I suppose, well, hope he means it in the same sense as cracking down on any sort of dangerous fundamentalism. Being overtly religious and a zealot isn't a crime and shouldn't be "cracked down on." But anyone who spouts religious hatred, from whatever religion, should perhaps be looked into in the off-chance they're proclaiming things that incite violence.

Furthermore, I think on a policy level, governments in the developed world should make a much more concerted effort to integrate first & even second generation immigrants who deeply believe in Islamic fundamentalism. Obviously, these people make up a minority of Muslims in Germany, UK, Netherlands, etc etc, what have you - but when glaring cultural and social differences exist in even small communities when compared to prevailing societal attitudes, policies should be implemented to encourage basic levels of integration for some. This is in contrast, of course, to the ham-fisted "solutions" of right-populists who would rather fear-monger and propagate untruths of their own.

Centre-Left and Centre-Right governments alike are testing the waters in this regard, in many countries, and I'm optimistic that it'll work out - while simultaneously fanning the flames of thinly veiled far-right and hardcore nationalist movements.

[Ostroeuropa]

Neither of us are Americans and as I noted, the problem is less severe in the USA, and Muslims there appear less radicalized.

Your from Wales correct? I dont think there is huge problem with radical Muslims in the UK either.

Yes, there is a huge problem.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73885 ... Islam-poll

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Your from Wales correct? I dont think there is huge problem with radical Muslims in the UK either.

Yes, there is a huge problem.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73885 ... Islam-poll

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

Where's the huge problem?

[Olerand]

Yes, there is a huge problem.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73885 ... Islam-poll

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

Where's the huge problem?

I can perceive why, if one is a homosexual, one might see a problem. But I guess if one doesn't think their rights that worthwhile, what is the problem. And therein we run into issues.

[San Lumen]

As Attorney General Ellison has a obligation to enforce the law of the state. His religion cannot factor into it.

Then he should resign.

I disagree. He ran for the office in in November and the people of Minnesota chose him as their Attorney General in a free and fair election.

There is something called the first amendment which states "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion nor restricting the free exercise thereof." The Supreme Court has ruled it applies to the states as well.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Then he should resign.

I disagree. He ran for the office in in November and the people of Minnesota chose him as their Attorney General in a free and fair election.

There is something called the first amendment which states "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion nor restricting the free exercise thereof." The Supreme Court has ruled it applies to the states as well.

Like I said, he should resign.

[San Lumen]

Your from Wales correct? I dont think there is huge problem with radical Muslims in the UK either.

Yes, there is a huge problem.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73885 ... Islam-poll

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

Homosexuality is not going to be outlawed in the UK.

[San Lumen]

I disagree. He ran for the office in in November and the people of Minnesota chose him as their Attorney General in a free and fair election.

There is something called the first amendment which states "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion nor restricting the free exercise thereof." The Supreme Court has ruled it applies to the states as well.

Like I said, he should resign.

I do not understand why. I gather in your view he should not have even run for the office? His term does begin until January 2nd.

[Olerand]

Yes, there is a huge problem.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73885 ... Islam-poll

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

Homosexuality is not going to be outlawed in the UK.

Right, so a growing sense of societal rejection is OK, as long as it's not... illegal. I don't think one can reduce the LGBT movement to just that, but I guess if that's fine for them. A growing segment of society will reject you, hard. But you won't go to jail. Well, yet.

[Ostroeuropa]

I dont see a massive amount of support for Islamic fundamentalism in my country.

What do you mean by crack down? You are familiar with the first amendment correct?

I suppose, well, hope he means it in the same sense as cracking down on any sort of dangerous fundamentalism. Being overtly religious and a zealot isn't a crime and shouldn't be "cracked down on." But anyone who spouts religious hatred, from whatever religion, should perhaps be looked into in the off-chance they're proclaiming things that incite violence.

Furthermore, I think on a policy level, governments in the developed world should make a much more concerted effort to integrate first & even second generation immigrants who deeply believe in Islamic fundamentalism. Obviously, these people make up a minority of Muslims in Germany, UK, Netherlands, etc etc, what have you - but when glaring cultural and social differences exist in even small communities when compared to prevailing societal attitudes, policies should be implemented to encourage basic levels of integration for some. This is in contrast, of course, to the ham-fisted "solutions" of right-populists who would rather fear-monger and propagate untruths of their own.

Centre-Left and Centre-Right governments alike are testing the waters in this regard, in many countries, and I'm optimistic that it'll work out - while simultaneously fanning the flames of thinly veiled far-right and hardcore nationalist movements.

Ban circumcision.
Ban gender segregation.
Ban faith schools.
Crack down on the press and institute a watch dog that will fine them if they persistently misrepresent a topic (For instance, screaming "Terrorism" over and over about Muslims without noting that they do not commit the amount of Terrorism the press is implying. The watch dog would issue a warning that articles from a paper that has persistently misrepresented a demographic that for the next X months on the topic must contain a stat like "They commit X% of the terrorism." instead of not informing people of that while implying they commit most/all of it. Expand this out to DV, rape and so on, as well. Failure to comply will result in compulsory front page clarifications and fines, failure to comply with that will lead to closure.)
Stop funding the Sauds and freeze their influence in our country, freeze their funding of mosques and organizations and so on, and begin openly discussing with moderate muslims how the Sauds are dividing us.

Those are some measures to begin with.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, there is a huge problem.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73885 ... Islam-poll

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

Homosexuality is not going to be outlawed in the UK.

Mistreatment of black people is not going to be legalized in the US, so stop complaining about racism why don't you.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Like I said, he should resign.

I do not understand why. I gather in your view he should not have even run for the office? His term does begin until January 2nd.

He should not have run for office, correct. No Muslim who lives in a country not governing by Shari'ah should run for any kind of government position that deals with law.

[San Lumen]

I suppose, well, hope he means it in the same sense as cracking down on any sort of dangerous fundamentalism. Being overtly religious and a zealot isn't a crime and shouldn't be "cracked down on." But anyone who spouts religious hatred, from whatever religion, should perhaps be looked into in the off-chance they're proclaiming things that incite violence.

Furthermore, I think on a policy level, governments in the developed world should make a much more concerted effort to integrate first & even second generation immigrants who deeply believe in Islamic fundamentalism. Obviously, these people make up a minority of Muslims in Germany, UK, Netherlands, etc etc, what have you - but when glaring cultural and social differences exist in even small communities when compared to prevailing societal attitudes, policies should be implemented to encourage basic levels of integration for some. This is in contrast, of course, to the ham-fisted "solutions" of right-populists who would rather fear-monger and propagate untruths of their own.

Centre-Left and Centre-Right governments alike are testing the waters in this regard, in many countries, and I'm optimistic that it'll work out - while simultaneously fanning the flames of thinly veiled far-right and hardcore nationalist movements.

Ban circumcision.
Ban gender segregation.
Ban faith schools.
Crack down on the press and institute a watch dog that will fine them if they persistently misrepresent a topic (For instance, screaming "Terrorism" over and over about Muslims without noting that they do not commit the amount of Terrorism the press is implying. The watch dog would issue a warning that articles from a paper that has persistently misrepresented a demographic that for the next X months on the topic must contain a stat like "They commit X% of the terrorism." instead of not informing people of that while implying they commit most/all of it. Expand this out to DV, rape and so on, as well. Failure to comply will result in compulsory front page clarifications and fines, failure to comply with that will lead to closure.)
Stop funding the Sauds and freeze their influence in our country, freeze their funding of mosques and organizations and so on, and begin openly discussing with moderate muslims how the Sauds are dividing us.

Those are some measures to begin with.

Sounds like you don;t believe in a free press

[Ostroeuropa]

Ban circumcision.
Ban gender segregation.
Ban faith schools.
Crack down on the press and institute a watch dog that will fine them if they persistently misrepresent a topic (For instance, screaming "Terrorism" over and over about Muslims without noting that they do not commit the amount of Terrorism the press is implying. The watch dog would issue a warning that articles from a paper that has persistently misrepresented a demographic that for the next X months on the topic must contain a stat like "They commit X% of the terrorism." instead of not informing people of that while implying they commit most/all of it. Expand this out to DV, rape and so on, as well. Failure to comply will result in compulsory front page clarifications and fines, failure to comply with that will lead to closure.)
Stop funding the Sauds and freeze their influence in our country, freeze their funding of mosques and organizations and so on, and begin openly discussing with moderate muslims how the Sauds are dividing us.

Those are some measures to begin with.

Sounds like you don;t believe in a free press

I, along with two thirds of the British public, do not support a free press. We support tight regulations on the press. It sounds like you're comfortable peddling the view of the far-right capitalists when it suits an anti-western agenda. You think the US press is healthy? No, it's clear what a blank cheque for freedom of the press gets us, and it is not desirable, it is no more desirable than the rest of the anarcho-capitalist memes.

[San Lumen]

I do not understand why. I gather in your view he should not have even run for the office? His term does begin until January 2nd.

He should not have run for office, correct. No Muslim who lives in a country not governing by Shari'ah should run for any kind of government position that deals with law.

Well I completely disagree with you. The United States is not and should not be a theocracy. That's why we have the first amendment.

[San Lumen]

Sounds like you don;t believe in a free press

I, along with two thirds of the British public, do not support a free press. We support tight regulations on the press. It sounds like you're comfortable peddling the view of the far-right capitalists when it suits an anti-western agenda.

Putin thanks you. In Russia the media is nothing more than propaganda for the Kremlin.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

He should not have run for office, correct. No Muslim who lives in a country not governing by Shari'ah should run for any kind of government position that deals with law.

Well I completely disagree with you. The United States is not and should not be a theocracy. That's why we have the first amendment.

I wasn't talking about theocracy. I just said that Muslims should be running for kufr offices.

[Ostroeuropa]

I, along with two thirds of the British public, do not support a free press. We support tight regulations on the press. It sounds like you're comfortable peddling the view of the far-right capitalists when it suits an anti-western agenda.

Putin thanks you. In Russia the media is nothing more than propaganda for the Kremlin.

And in the US the media is nothing more than propaganda for the oligarchs. It is a matter of what regulations are supported. You're preaching far-right capitalist memes when it suits your agenda, I think it's clear you're only left wing when it lets you lash out at the west, and when right wing ideology harms the west, that's what you suddenly go for instead.

You're peddling anarcho-capitalist rhetoric all of a sudden. Why is that?

[San Lumen]

Well I completely disagree with you. The United States is not and should not be a theocracy. That's why we have the first amendment.

I wasn't talking about theocracy. I just said that Muslims should be running for kufr offices.

What the heck is a kufr office?

[Major-Tom]

I suppose, well, hope he means it in the same sense as cracking down on any sort of dangerous fundamentalism. Being overtly religious and a zealot isn't a crime and shouldn't be "cracked down on." But anyone who spouts religious hatred, from whatever religion, should perhaps be looked into in the off-chance they're proclaiming things that incite violence.

Furthermore, I think on a policy level, governments in the developed world should make a much more concerted effort to integrate first & even second generation immigrants who deeply believe in Islamic fundamentalism. Obviously, these people make up a minority of Muslims in Germany, UK, Netherlands, etc etc, what have you - but when glaring cultural and social differences exist in even small communities when compared to prevailing societal attitudes, policies should be implemented to encourage basic levels of integration for some. This is in contrast, of course, to the ham-fisted "solutions" of right-populists who would rather fear-monger and propagate untruths of their own.

Centre-Left and Centre-Right governments alike are testing the waters in this regard, in many countries, and I'm optimistic that it'll work out - while simultaneously fanning the flames of thinly veiled far-right and hardcore nationalist movements.

Ban circumcision.
Ban gender segregation.
Ban faith schools.
Crack down on the press and institute a watch dog that will fine them if they persistently misrepresent a topic (For instance, screaming "Terrorism" over and over about Muslims without noting that they do not commit the amount of Terrorism the press is implying. The watch dog would issue a warning that articles from a paper that has persistently misrepresented a demographic that for the next X months on the topic must contain a stat like "They commit X% of the terrorism." instead of not informing people of that while implying they commit most/all of it. Expand this out to DV, rape and so on, as well. Failure to comply will result in compulsory front page clarifications and fines, failure to comply with that will lead to closure.)
Stop funding the Sauds and freeze their influence in our country, freeze their funding of mosques and organizations and so on, and begin openly discussing with moderate muslims how the Sauds are dividing us.

Those are some measures to begin with.

As a Yank, I don't see banning circumcision as necessary, not even in Europe tbh. I know it's not a prevalent thing across the Atlantic, but really, it's harmless from a societal perspective.

Banning gender segregation sounds great on paper, in fact, I fully support that, but I'm sure you'd agree that there are hundreds of caveats that have to be addressed on a case by case basis. (IE, what to do with All Men schools, All Women clubs of sorts etc).

Banning faith schools, too, seems a little hamfisted and reactionary. In my country, for instance, there is a plethora of Christian and Jewish schools, for instance, and they still have to follow a strict curriculum, while having some leeway to teach their religious faiths. I attended Catholic School for over half my life, and never had any issues with it. When it comes to Islamic schools, I'd argue that the same regulations, restrictions and curriculum guidelines should be put in place as they are for Christian and Jewish schools. After all, when those rules are broken (at least in the US), there are certainly hefty consequences.

Cracking down on the press is an immediate nope from me. I mean, the right to a free press should be held as sacrosanct and shouldn't be infringed upon. Period.

Couldn't agree more in regards to Saudi Arabian organizations and supposed "charities." The influence Saudi groups have in many parts of the developed world should sound off alarms.