Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Olerand]

It is debatable if Corsica is a part of France. A referendum on the topic would clarify the issue. Fortunately, France is much more than Corsica.

Britain generally has a strong sense of nationhood whether the four nations(Englnd,Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland) or the UK. I think France has less regional rivalry and more cohesion but in terms of Patriotism Americans and to a lesser extent Brits are more Patriotic but France is still a nation.

Again, you don't need to take my word on British national sentiment. A stroll through the otherwise execrable British press publications can give you a first hand account of this. There are literally tons of articles, written by Brits, that expand on the topic.

I'll give the British this one bonus over some other countries, they are certainly capable of introspection.
Well, in some matters, maybe not others.

Patriotism means nothing. For example, what Americans call patriotism, everyone else would call nationalism. This goes hand in hand with how right America has become, and how its right is actually far-right.

EDIT: I don't think the timeline of the death of the feeling of a British nation is really that surprising. Why Margaret Thatcher herself, who heralded this new era for Britain said it best, "There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.’"

The nation is inherently communal. The moment the idea developed that society was nothing more than a bunch of disparate individuals who need not share anything in common, at best grouped into families, living side by side on a common piece of land but where each one's allegiance lies to their own individual self (again, maybe their family) first and foremost, the idea of a British nation was starting to die.

[Senegalboy]

Britain generally has a strong sense of nationhood whether the four nations(Englnd,Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland) or the UK. I think France has less regional rivalry and more cohesion but in terms of Patriotism Americans and to a lesser extent Brits are more Patriotic but France is still a nation.

Again, you don't need to take my word on British national sentiment. A stroll through the otherwise execrable British press publications can give you a first hand account of this. There are literally tons of articles, written by Brits, that expand on the topic.

I'll give the British this one bonus over some other countries, they are certainly capable of introspection.
Well, in some matters, maybe not others.

Patriotism means nothing. For example, what Americans call patriotism, everyone else would call nationalism. This goes hand in hand with how right America has become, and how its right is actually far-right.

Yes,the British nation have differences which are deep like England and Scotland and Yorkshire and Lancashire but these differences make Britain.

[Olerand]

Again, you don't need to take my word on British national sentiment. A stroll through the otherwise execrable British press publications can give you a first hand account of this. There are literally tons of articles, written by Brits, that expand on the topic.

I'll give the British this one bonus over some other countries, they are certainly capable of introspection.
Well, in some matters, maybe not others.

Patriotism means nothing. For example, what Americans call patriotism, everyone else would call nationalism. This goes hand in hand with how right America has become, and how its right is actually far-right.

Yes,the British nation have differences which are deep like England and Scotland and Yorkshire and Lancashire but these differences make Britain.

Not when they make secession.

To clarify, I will add my edited parts again:
EDIT: I don't think the timeline of the death of the feeling of a British nation is really that surprising. Why Margaret Thatcher herself, who heralded this new era for Britain said it best, "There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.’"

The nation is inherently communal. The moment the idea developed that society was nothing more than a bunch of disparate individuals who need not share anything in common, at best grouped into families, living side by side on a common piece of land but where each one's allegiance lies to their own individual self (again, maybe their family) first and foremost, the idea of a British nation was starting to die.

[Senegalboy]

Yes,the British nation have differences which are deep like England and Scotland and Yorkshire and Lancashire but these differences make Britain.

Not when they make secession.

To clarify, I will add my edited parts again:
EDIT: I don't think the timeline of the death of the feeling of a British nation is really that surprising. Why Margaret Thatcher herself, who heralded this new era for Britain said it best, "There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.’"

The nation is inherently communal. The moment the idea developed that society was nothing more than a bunch of disparate individuals who need not share anything in common, at best grouped into families, living side by side on a common piece of land but where each one's allegiance lies to their own individual self (again, maybe their family) first and foremost, the idea of a British nation was starting to die.

British Identity is not just cohesion but our strong community and the society will always have a unique set of values and culture

[Olerand]

Not when they make secession.

To clarify, I will add my edited parts again:
EDIT: I don't think the timeline of the death of the feeling of a British nation is really that surprising. Why Margaret Thatcher herself, who heralded this new era for Britain said it best, "There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.’"

The nation is inherently communal. The moment the idea developed that society was nothing more than a bunch of disparate individuals who need not share anything in common, at best grouped into families, living side by side on a common piece of land but where each one's allegiance lies to their own individual self (again, maybe their family) first and foremost, the idea of a British nation was starting to die.

British Identity is not just cohesion but our strong community and the society will always have a unique set of values and culture

A strong community on the local level, mostly true of the vast majority of Britain. But that doesn't translate into a nation. And Britain is facing the same equivocation that America is. What are its values?

And are you not American, I forget?

[Senegalboy]

British Identity is not just cohesion but our strong community and the society will always have a unique set of values and culture

A strong community on the local level, mostly true of the vast majority of Britain. But that doesn't translate into a nation. And Britain is facing the same equivocation that America is. What are its values?

And are you not American, I forget?

I'm British
But there are small things like british humour and community culture which define our nation partially

[Sovaal]

We do, there are no monarchists to speak of in France.

Really? In all of France, out of all 67 million of you, there is not a single monarchist? You all think alike?

Is France a hivemind? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.

No faction to call the French Revolution the war of Republican agression. You need not come to the same conclusion in history, but you do need to understand it similarly.

And what understanding you would come to about the Reign of Terror?

You consider it ignorance, I, and others here, consider it clear-eyed analysis.

Because you're approaching it from a point of ignorance. You have a razor-thin understanding of American history.

And who are these others? You seem to be quite alone in this thread.

I have. The apple pie is not in fact an American creation, nor exclusive to America. I have had it in many varieties, including the English (that is the American pie) iteration. I do not enjoy it.

Well, there's the problem right there. Anyone who doesn't enjoy apple pie is clearly not to be trusted.

Another national attribute of ours. And yet I personally know many New Yorkers who wish to be like me.

They want to LARP as an elite?

That’s a rather large disagreement no? Let me ask you, what do the LGBT and anti-LGBT activist share in common in their understanding of liberty and freedom (which are the same value)?

They want liberty. Some want religious liberty. Others want personal liberty.

Seems I do. Others, English speakers granted, have agreed.

Name one.

No, France is the Republic. Our identity changes, our history is millennial, we’re not the France of the Middle Ages, absolutely not. We’re not the Franks either.

Your identity is based upon your form of government? That seems rather thin.

What does this even mean? Our first article defines France, what do I care of San Marino’s constitution?

Does France not have a definition beyond its Constitution? Would you take pride in being French if the French state ceased to exist? Do you have any sense of culture or identity beyond "the Republic"?

Increasingly, not so.

Spicy.

Sure, and? What are your understandings of those documents? These answers would be so much easier if America, like the vast majority of the developed world, did not politicize its judiciary.

My understanding of them is that they are an expression of the values of America's founding. The values that bind us together and that we strive to achieve.

Do you not understand? Would you like me to explain what these words mean?

Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me.

France is the unitary State. The Nation is a social construct. The Nation is unitary, because the State, from the time of the monarchy, constructed it to be so. France the medieval nation did not exist.

So, again, you have no sense of identity beyond the state. You believe that your heritage is inherently tied to the state. How sad.

Of our land? I think you of all people would defend your own land.

You said France expanded. Into whose land did it expand and to what specific pieces of land are you referring to? Brittany? Normandy? What land?

It seemed as though you were referencing France's colonization of Africa.

It is one of the methods one can use to build a nation. France was built by the State. That is a fact. The American State has failed to build a nation.

Nations can exist before a state. You, however, seem to take more pride in the state than the nation. And you have no sense of pride or belonging beyond the state.

You still haven't given your definition of a nation. Still waiting. And it seems I'll be waiting for a while because of all the three languages you allegedly speak you don't know what a nation is in any of them.

Finally, something that sticks! You are most certainly individualistic. To a fault.

Why thank you.

Oh I can assure you I’ve been. And it is because I have been, and heard what I have heard (On this, I need not expand), and seen what I have seen, that I know America is not a nation. Had I not been, I wouldn’t know this for a fact.

And where did you go? To whom did you speak? What did you see?

And? Your nation has no official language, and a political faction in America insists it need not have it.

You don't need an official language you have most of your people speak a certain language. Jesus Christ. If French stopped being your official language would you all start speaking German?

I’ve discussed, in this very same thread I believe, the previous American “nations”, which certainly had English as a common language. Now, no such thing exists.

You can pretend most of us don't speak English. That won't make it true.

I do quite well at parties, and I know I am elite. Why I have been labeled as such by you and another in this very thread.

I said you have an elitist attitude. I never said you were elite.

Funny, I thought a man of the French Revolution would reject ideas of elitism.

Our Nation was built by the State, that’s simply how history transpired. History could be tragic, but not sad.
America still has not developed a nation today.

Still waiting on you to explain what you think a nation is.

I guess a singular state with no major political divides.

So like none of them.

[Olerand]

A strong community on the local level, mostly true of the vast majority of Britain. But that doesn't translate into a nation. And Britain is facing the same equivocation that America is. What are its values?

And are you not American, I forget?

I'm British
But there are small things like british humour and community culture which define our nation partially

I'll give you the humour, though it's rarely as funny or witty as the British perceive it to be. But again, there is little in national communal belonging, and the Nation is inherently communal. A gaggle of identity-strong shires, counties, villages or whatever does not a nation make.

Really? In all of France, out of all 67 million of you, there is not a single monarchist? You all think alike?

Is France a hivemind? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.


And what understanding you would come to about the Reign of Terror?


Because you're approaching it from a point of ignorance. You have a razor-thin understanding of American history.

And who are these others? You seem to be quite alone in this thread.


Well, there's the problem right there. Anyone who doesn't enjoy apple pie is clearly not to be trusted.


They want to LARP as an elite?


They want liberty. Some want religious liberty. Others want personal liberty.


Name one.


Your identity is based upon your form of government? That seems rather thin.


Does France not have a definition beyond its Constitution? Would you take pride in being French if the French state ceased to exist? Do you have any sense of culture or identity beyond "the Republic"?


Spicy.


My understanding of them is that they are an expression of the values of America's founding. The values that bind us together and that we strive to achieve.


Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me.


So, again, you have no sense of identity beyond the state. You believe that your heritage is inherently tied to the state. How sad.


You said France expanded. Into whose land did it expand and to what specific pieces of land are you referring to? Brittany? Normandy? What land?

It seemed as though you were referencing France's colonization of Africa.


Nations can exist before a state. You, however, seem to take more pride in the state than the nation. And you have no sense of pride or belonging beyond the state.

You still haven't given your definition of a nation. Still waiting. And it seems I'll be waiting for a while because of all the three languages you allegedly speak you don't know what a nation is in any of them.


Why thank you.


And where did you go? To whom did you speak? What did you see?


You don't need an official language you have most of your people speak a certain language. Jesus Christ. If French stopped being your official language would you all start speaking German?


You can pretend most of us don't speak English. That won't make it true.


I said you have an elitist attitude. I never said you were elite.

Funny, I thought a man of the French Revolution would reject ideas of elitism.


Still waiting on you to explain what you think a nation is.

I guess a singular state with no major political divides.

So like none of them.

No, major political divides exist. Well, major by our standards, not America's.

[Keuliseu]

What binds you together?
I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.
What binds you together? What is your nation? A shared understanding of your history? Shared values? Shared commitments and solidarity? Increasingly, America can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?

Come on dude, America has an eating culture

[Olerand]

What binds you together?
I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.
What binds you together? What is your nation? A shared understanding of your history? Shared values? Shared commitments and solidarity? Increasingly, America can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?

Come on dude, America has an eating culture

I will not deny that. Meal sizes in America alone are a clear indication that portion control is not a part of the American national identity, and a lack of portion control can itself be a characteristic of the nation.

[Kramanica]

Really? In all of France, out of all 67 million of you, there is not a single monarchist? You all think alike?

Is France a hivemind? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.


And what understanding you would come to about the Reign of Terror?


Because you're approaching it from a point of ignorance. You have a razor-thin understanding of American history.

And who are these others? You seem to be quite alone in this thread.


Well, there's the problem right there. Anyone who doesn't enjoy apple pie is clearly not to be trusted.


They want to LARP as an elite?


They want liberty. Some want religious liberty. Others want personal liberty.


Name one.


Your identity is based upon your form of government? That seems rather thin.


Does France not have a definition beyond its Constitution? Would you take pride in being French if the French state ceased to exist? Do you have any sense of culture or identity beyond "the Republic"?


Spicy.


My understanding of them is that they are an expression of the values of America's founding. The values that bind us together and that we strive to achieve.


Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me.


So, again, you have no sense of identity beyond the state. You believe that your heritage is inherently tied to the state. How sad.


You said France expanded. Into whose land did it expand and to what specific pieces of land are you referring to? Brittany? Normandy? What land?

It seemed as though you were referencing France's colonization of Africa.


Nations can exist before a state. You, however, seem to take more pride in the state than the nation. And you have no sense of pride or belonging beyond the state.

You still haven't given your definition of a nation. Still waiting. And it seems I'll be waiting for a while because of all the three languages you allegedly speak you don't know what a nation is in any of them.


Why thank you.


And where did you go? To whom did you speak? What did you see?


You don't need an official language you have most of your people speak a certain language. Jesus Christ. If French stopped being your official language would you all start speaking German?


You can pretend most of us don't speak English. That won't make it true.


I said you have an elitist attitude. I never said you were elite.

Funny, I thought a man of the French Revolution would reject ideas of elitism.


Still waiting on you to explain what you think a nation is.

I can see from your redundant questions that you have not actually read any of my other posts on this very thread. If you are actually interested in knowing more about the topic, beyond plain self-affirmation, you are welcome to go over my posts and find your answers therein.

M8, I'm not going to go read over all of your previous posts in this thread. Despite what you may believe about yourself, you're just not worth the effort. All I'm asking (which you seem to be completely incapable of providing an answer to) is what you believe a nation is.

You've tossed out all dictionary definitions because apparently the only definitions that matter are the ones you pull out of your ass. So what do you believe a nation is?

In addition, there are indeed individual, mostly old, mostly inbred royalists in France. They have no political faction to speak of, nor a group. They are irrelevant. I, again, never claimed that 100% of everyone must be the same

Really?

Because when I asked if you all think the same you said, and I quote:

We do

nor that the outcomes of history must be analyzed the same. But the crushing majority of your people, of your political factions, need to understand history the same. Which America does not.

Yeah, I get it. France is a hivemind, America is not.

And in France, we value earned elitism. That is what separates us from other countries of hereditary, unearned privileges, such as the monarchy to our north and the political dynasties to our west.

Ah, I see. So only once you believe you've earned the right to disappear up your own asshole will you actually do so. All right, well, that's something. And what have you done to earn that right?

Here in America we tell elitists to go fuck themselves.

[Olerand]

I can see from your redundant questions that you have not actually read any of my other posts on this very thread. If you are actually interested in knowing more about the topic, beyond plain self-affirmation, you are welcome to go over my posts and find your answers therein.

M8, I'm not going to go read over all of your previous posts in this thread. Despite what you may believe about yourself, you're just not worth the effort. All I'm asking (which you seem to be completely incapable of providing an answer to) is what you believe a nation is.

You've tossed out all dictionary definitions because apparently the only definitions that matter are the ones you pull out of your ass. So what do you believe a nation is?

In addition, there are indeed individual, mostly old, mostly inbred royalists in France. They have no political faction to speak of, nor a group. They are irrelevant. I, again, never claimed that 100% of everyone must be the same

Really?

Because when I asked if you all think the same you said, and I quote:

We do

nor that the outcomes of history must be analyzed the same. But the crushing majority of your people, of your political factions, need to understand history the same. Which America does not.

Yeah, I get it. France is a hivemind, America is not.

And in France, we value earned elitism. That is what separates us from other countries of hereditary, unearned privileges, such as the monarchy to our north and the political dynasties to our west.

Ah, I see. So only once you believe you've earned the right to disappear up your own asshole will you actually do so. All right, well, that's something. And what have you done to earn that right?

Here in America we tell elitists to go fuck themselves.

And what I have repeatedly said, to you and others in this thread, is that your answers were provided before. Multiple times. That you cannot be bothered to read them is not my problem.

Think the same means nothing, think the same of what? Do we think the same regarding economic issues? No. Do we think the same regarding foreign policy? Mostly, but there are some differences. Do we think the same in conclusions we draw of history? Not always. Do we think the same of the reading of events that have occurred in history? Yes. The French right does not label the Revolution the war of Republican aggression, nor even does the Vendée.

I've learned. What else is there to do? You learn, and you apply your knowledge. And considering America's fascination with political and business dynasties, which are becoming more and more entrenched, I don't really think you do tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Kramanica]

M8, I'm not going to go read over all of your previous posts in this thread. Despite what you may believe about yourself, you're just not worth the effort. All I'm asking (which you seem to be completely incapable of providing an answer to) is what you believe a nation is.

You've tossed out all dictionary definitions because apparently the only definitions that matter are the ones you pull out of your ass. So what do you believe a nation is?


Really?

Because when I asked if you all think the same you said, and I quote:



Yeah, I get it. France is a hivemind, America is not.


Ah, I see. So only once you believe you've earned the right to disappear up your own asshole will you actually do so. All right, well, that's something. And what have you done to earn that right?

Here in America we tell elitists to go fuck themselves.

And what I have repeatedly said, to you and others in this thread, is that your answers were provided before. Multiple times. That you cannot be bothered to read them is not my problem.

I don't believe you. At all.

It's become increasingly apparent that you don't know what a nation is. And when people provide you with the actual dictionary definition of what a nation is you simply tell them they're wrong. You don't know what a nation is because you aren't an intellectual. You're not, even by alleged French definitions, an elite.

Think the same means nothing, think the same of what? Do we think the same regarding economic issues? No. Do we think the same regarding foreign policy? Mostly, but there are some differences. Do we think the same in conclusions we draw of history? Not always. Do we think the same of the reading of events that have occurred in history? Yes. The French right does not label the Revolution the war of Republican aggression, nor even does the Vendée.

Mm, yes. And nobody in America would label the American Revolution the Colonial War of Treason (I don't even think the British would do that).

I've learned. What else is there to do? You learn, and you apply your knowledge.

No, you have not.

And considering America's fascination with political and business dynasties, which are becoming more and more entrenched, I don't really think you do tell them to go fuck themselves.

Go up to anyone in this country and tell them that you're an elite and that they should listen to you. You'll either be laughed at or told to go fuck yourself (or both).

[Olerand]

And what I have repeatedly said, to you and others in this thread, is that your answers were provided before. Multiple times. That you cannot be bothered to read them is not my problem.

I don't believe you. At all.

It's become increasingly apparent that you don't know what a nation is. And when people provide you with the actual dictionary definition of what a nation is you simply tell them they're wrong. You don't know what a nation is because you aren't an intellectual. You're not, even by alleged French definitions, an elite.

Think the same means nothing, think the same of what? Do we think the same regarding economic issues? No. Do we think the same regarding foreign policy? Mostly, but there are some differences. Do we think the same in conclusions we draw of history? Not always. Do we think the same of the reading of events that have occurred in history? Yes. The French right does not label the Revolution the war of Republican aggression, nor even does the Vendée.

Mm, yes. And nobody in America would label the American Revolution the Colonial War of Treason (I don't even think the British would do that).

I've learned. What else is there to do? You learn, and you apply your knowledge.

No, you have not.

And considering America's fascination with political and business dynasties, which are becoming more and more entrenched, I don't really think you do tell them to go fuck themselves.

Go up to anyone in this country and tell them that you're an elite and that they should listen to you. You'll either be laughed at or told to go fuck yourself (or both).

You repeatedly refuse to actually look up my posts, which are available through a simple search of my name in the search bar for this thread. Instead, you repeat the same line again and again.
What is the misattributed saying to Einstein about repeating the same actions over and over?

But they would label your civil war as the war of northern aggression. To be honest, that is more relevant to modern America than your war of independence anyway.

But I have. You repeatedly refuse to actually do the research, but that's not my problem.

So they should stop voting for them and idolizing them. I don't doubt that Americans abhor the elites they meet, there has been much written about anti-intellectualism in America, this focus on "homegrown gut feeling".
But in a seemingly logical contrast, they admire them and vote for them from afar.

[Keuliseu]

Here in America we tell elitists to go fuck themselves.

By electing them?

[Sovaal]

Here in America we tell elitists to go fuck themselves.

By electing them?

I mean there’s not much else to be elected.

Still a fair point but still.

[Kramanica]

I don't believe you. At all.

It's become increasingly apparent that you don't know what a nation is. And when people provide you with the actual dictionary definition of what a nation is you simply tell them they're wrong. You don't know what a nation is because you aren't an intellectual. You're not, even by alleged French definitions, an elite.


Mm, yes. And nobody in America would label the American Revolution the Colonial War of Treason (I don't even think the British would do that).


No, you have not.


Go up to anyone in this country and tell them that you're an elite and that they should listen to you. You'll either be laughed at or told to go fuck yourself (or both).

You repeatedly refuse to actually look up my posts, which are available through a simple search of my name in the search bar for this thread. Instead, you repeat the same line again and again.
What is the misattributed saying to Einstein about repeating the same actions over and over?

I'm not going to go sift through your long ass posts. They're not even interesting enough to do so anyway.

That's not even how debate works. You're claiming America is not a nation. The burden of proof lies upon you. It ain't my job to do your research for you. One would think an elite such as yourself would know that. Apparently though that's too much to expect from you.

But they would label your civil war as the war of northern aggression. To be honest, that is more relevant to modern America than your war of independence anyway.

No significant groups in the States would do that.

But I have. You repeatedly refuse to actually do the research, but that's not my problem.

You're making the claims here, bud. The burden of proof rests entirely on you.

So they should stop voting for them and idolizing them. I don't doubt that Americans abhor the elites they meet, there has been much written about anti-intellectualism in America, this focus on "homegrown gut feeling".
But in a seemingly logical contrast, they admire them and vote for them from afar.

Oooh, a link to an Amazon book page. That's real research, right there.

[Olerand]

You repeatedly refuse to actually look up my posts, which are available through a simple search of my name in the search bar for this thread. Instead, you repeat the same line again and again.
What is the misattributed saying to Einstein about repeating the same actions over and over?

I'm not going to go sift through your long ass posts. They're not even interesting enough to do so anyway.

That's not even how debate works. You're claiming America is not a nation. The burden of proof lies upon you. It ain't my job to do your research for you. One would think an elite such as yourself would know that. Apparently though that's too much to expect from you.

But they would label your civil war as the war of northern aggression. To be honest, that is more relevant to modern America than your war of independence anyway.

No significant groups in the States would do that.

But I have. You repeatedly refuse to actually do the research, but that's not my problem.

You're making the claims here, bud. The burden of proof rests entirely on you.

So they should stop voting for them and idolizing them. I don't doubt that Americans abhor the elites they meet, there has been much written about anti-intellectualism in America, this focus on "homegrown gut feeling".
But in a seemingly logical contrast, they admire them and vote for them from afar.

Oooh, a link to an Amazon book page. That's real research, right there.

Your choice, but you will not find the information you repeatedly seek then.

I have answered this question in so many ways and in so many posts that I cannot possibly dedicate the time to finding and quoting them all again.

And that you claim that you reading my posts is you doing my research, out of my posts, is an interesting understanding of research I guess.

They don't?

Again, finding my own posts to clarify my positions is not me doing research.

Would you actually.... Bother to read the book? How exactly would one provide a book and its contents to you?

[Kramanica]

I'm not going to go sift through your long ass posts. They're not even interesting enough to do so anyway.

That's not even how debate works. You're claiming America is not a nation. The burden of proof lies upon you. It ain't my job to do your research for you. One would think an elite such as yourself would know that. Apparently though that's too much to expect from you.


No significant groups in the States would do that.


You're making the claims here, bud. The burden of proof rests entirely on you.


Oooh, a link to an Amazon book page. That's real research, right there.

Your choice, but you will not find the information you repeatedly seek then.

I have answered this question in so many ways and in so many posts that I cannot possibly dedicate the time to finding and quoting them all again.

You can't just, you know, type it out again?

It's a simple question. You're making this terribly difficult, but I guess it is when you don't have an answer.

What do you believe a nation is?

But you don't have an answer, because you're a liar. You're not an intellectual. You're not an elite. You're just some random Frenchman with a rather large inferiority complex.

And that you claim that you reading my posts is you doing my research, out of my posts, is an interesting understanding of research I guess.

Yes, me having to go back to go back and sift through all of your posts to get an answer is not how debate works.

They don't?

No, perceptions among some Southerners may be different, but there is no major organization in the US that percieves the Civil War that way.

Again, finding my own posts to clarify my positions is not me doing research.

Would you actually.... Bother to read the book? How exactly would one provide a book and its contents to you?

No, I'm not going to order a book from Amazon just for the purposes of this debate.

[Olerand]

Your choice, but you will not find the information you repeatedly seek then.

I have answered this question in so many ways and in so many posts that I cannot possibly dedicate the time to finding and quoting them all again.

You can't just, you know, type it out again?

It's a simple question. You're making this terribly difficult, but I guess it is when you don't have an answer.

What do you believe a nation is?

But you don't have an answer, because you're a liar. You're not an intellectual. You're not an elite. You're just some random Frenchman with a rather large inferiority complex.

And that you claim that you reading my posts is you doing my research, out of my posts, is an interesting understanding of research I guess.

Yes, me having to go back to go back and sift through all of your posts to get an answer is not how debate works.

They don't?

No, perceptions among some Southerners may be different, but there is no major organization in the US that percieves the Civil War that way.

Again, finding my own posts to clarify my positions is not me doing research.

Would you actually.... Bother to read the book? How exactly would one provide a book and its contents to you?

No, I'm not going to order a book from Amazon just for the purposes of this debate.

Type all of them out again, with the context that they came in? No, of course not.

I cannot give you your answer because you will use that definition to further elaborate on topics and criticisms that I have already addressed. True, I am looking to do less work, but if my interaction with Senegalboy have taught me one thing, it is that it is best not to waste my time endlessly repeating what I have consistently repeated.

And I don't see how I can have the inferiority complex, when it is never I who has responded with personal insults to a topic as vague and impersonal as national sentiment. Methinks the one more affected by this would actually suffer from such an affliction...

To have me bring up a discussion I already discussed, in full, to discuss again, in full, to bring up later and discuss again, in full, is not how a discussion works either. It's a little bit of both. I welcome new inquiries.

So the South is no major organization?

You don't have to. But I am making you aware that such a book exists, that is very informative, and that anti-intellectualism in America is a topic that has been covered extensively.

[Kramanica]

You can't just, you know, type it out again?

It's a simple question. You're making this terribly difficult, but I guess it is when you don't have an answer.

What do you believe a nation is?

But you don't have an answer, because you're a liar. You're not an intellectual. You're not an elite. You're just some random Frenchman with a rather large inferiority complex.


Yes, me having to go back to go back and sift through all of your posts to get an answer is not how debate works.


No, perceptions among some Southerners may be different, but there is no major organization in the US that percieves the Civil War that way.


No, I'm not going to order a book from Amazon just for the purposes of this debate.

Type all of them out again, with the context that they came in? No, of course not.

No, just answer a very simple and straightforward question: what do you think a nation is?

That's literally all I'm asking you to do.

I cannot give you your answer because you will use that definition to further elaborate on topics and criticisms that I have already addressed. True, I am looking to do less work, but if my interaction with Senegalboy have taught me one thing, it is that it is best not to waste my time endlessly repeating what I have consistently repeated.

I'm not asking you to repeat anything. I'm simply asking you to answer a question.

If you don't want to actually put in the work involved in debating people then why do you continue to respond?

And I don't see how I can have the inferiority complex, when it is never I who has responded with personal insults to a topic as vague and impersonal as national sentiment. Methinks the one more affected by this would actually suffer from such an affliction...

I'm not insulting you. I'm describing you. You have literally referred to yourself as an elite and claim that people in America want to be more like you.

To have me bring up a discussion I already discussed, in full, to discuss again, in full, to bring up later and discuss again, in full, is not how a discussion works either. It's a little bit of both. I welcome new inquiries.

It's a debate. And you clearly don't know how a debate or the burden of proof works.

So the South is no major organization?

The South as a whole does not always have that same perception of the Civil War.

You don't have to. But I am making you aware that such a book exists, that is very informative, and that anti-intellectualism in America is a topic that has been covered extensively.

Wow. How very useful for this "discussion".

[Olerand]

Type all of them out again, with the context that they came in? No, of course not.

No, just answer a very simple and straightforward question: what do you think a nation is?

That's literally all I'm asking you to do.

I cannot give you your answer because you will use that definition to further elaborate on topics and criticisms that I have already addressed. True, I am looking to do less work, but if my interaction with Senegalboy have taught me one thing, it is that it is best not to waste my time endlessly repeating what I have consistently repeated.

I'm not asking you to repeat anything. I'm simply asking you to answer a question.

If you don't want to actually put in the work involved in debating people then why do you continue to respond?

And I don't see how I can have the inferiority complex, when it is never I who has responded with personal insults to a topic as vague and impersonal as national sentiment. Methinks the one more affected by this would actually suffer from such an affliction...

I'm not insulting you. I'm describing you. You have literally referred to yourself as an elite and claim that people in America want to be more like you.

To have me bring up a discussion I already discussed, in full, to discuss again, in full, to bring up later and discuss again, in full, is not how a discussion works either. It's a little bit of both. I welcome new inquiries.

It's a debate. And you clearly don't know how a debate or the burden of proof works.

So the South is no major organization?

The South as a whole does not always have that same perception of the Civil War.

You don't have to. But I am making you aware that such a book exists, that is very informative, and that anti-intellectualism in America is a topic that has been covered extensively.

Wow. How very useful for this "discussion".

And again I say, if I were to answer this with any variety of what I have already written, then we will engage in a discussion that I have already had.

To see if you have anything new to add.

You have at various points said that I am up my, or very up my own ass, as well as suffering from an inferiority complex. I don't mind either, but I wonder how it is I who might suffer from such a complex.

And I know, from personal relations, individuals in America who would rather resemble me than the rest of their country.

Again, it is a debate that I have had, multiple times, from a variety of positions. If you have anything new to add, please, add.

True, Virginia is turning increasingly blue. What of the others?

It is, you said that an American who would meet an elite would tell them to go fuck themselves, and I pointed out that I am aware of that (as evidenced by the book, which is a great read), but that they will still idolize and vote for the elites anyway.

[San Lumen]

No, just answer a very simple and straightforward question: what do you think a nation is?

That's literally all I'm asking you to do.


I'm not asking you to repeat anything. I'm simply asking you to answer a question.

If you don't want to actually put in the work involved in debating people then why do you continue to respond?


I'm not insulting you. I'm describing you. You have literally referred to yourself as an elite and claim that people in America want to be more like you.


It's a debate. And you clearly don't know how a debate or the burden of proof works.


The South as a whole does not always have that same perception of the Civil War.


Wow. How very useful for this "discussion".

And again I say, if I were to answer this with any variety of what I have already written, then we will engage in a discussion that I have already had.

To see if you have anything new to add.

You have at various points said that I am up my, or very up my own ass, as well as suffering from an inferiority complex. I don't mind either, but I wonder how it is I who might suffer from such a complex.

And I know, from personal relations, individuals in America who would rather resemble me than the rest of their country.

Again, it is a debate that I have had, multiple times, from a variety of positions. If you have anything new to add, please, add.

True, Virginia is turning increasingly blue. What of the others?

It is, you said that an American who would meet an elite would tell them to go fuck themselves, and I pointed out that I am aware of that (as evidenced by the book, which is a great read), but that they will still idolize and vote for the elites anyway.

Sorry but what are you talking about?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Shared history, culture, values, a hatred of European elitism, apple pie, football, a love of liberty and freedom. I could go on. That's an incredibly stupid question. American culture is popular all over the world.


Well, you obviously need a dictionary since you've no idea of what a nation is.


You going to keep asking vague questions? "What is America"? What is any country? What is France?


Yes.


Also yes.


Yes.


Lmao

Most Americans still speak English, m8.

The self-awareness of a rock.


Okay, so you really just don't know what a nation is.


Scottish independence was a pathetic failure.


Gonna need a roadmap for that one.

Your history of the “civil war” or “war of northern aggression”?

>Can't even think of anything so he reaches back to a hundred fifty years ago

I reach back further and give you the American Revolution where Americans stood in solidarity against the British. Checkmate, people of the German Stepping Stone.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

.

So the South is no major organization?

No?