Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The US is a nation: https://www.google.com/search?q=nation& ... e&ie=UTF-8

Go over my posts again.

Go over that link that provide the definition of a nation. Also, more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation, https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nation, http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nation

[El-Amin Caliphate]

What is it?

Anglo-Saxon culture.

The US is influenced by a lot m9re than that.

[Olerand]

What is it?

Anglo-Saxon culture.

Once upon a time. What Americans have ridiculously labeled as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants", as if Anglo-Saxon was an ethnicity one could claim, like one could be Frank, certainly was the culture of America until... I don't know when to draw the line... The 1920s? Afterwards came an era of what can genuinely be called an "American" culture, born out of the Great Depression, New Deal, Second World War. That's dead. Now...

Go over my posts again.

Go over that link that provide the definition of a nation. Also, more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation, https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nation, http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nation

I know what a nation is. Now go over my posts again.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Anglo-Saxon culture.

Once upon a time. What Americans have ridiculously labeled as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants", as if Anglo-Saxon was an ethnicity one could claim, like one could be Frank, certainly was the culture of America until... I don't know when to draw the line... The 1920s? Afterwards came an era of what can genuinely be called an "American" culture, born out of the Great Depression, New Deal, Second World War. That's dead. Now...

Go over that link that provide the definition of a nation. Also, more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation, https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nation, http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nation

I know what a nation is. Now go over my posts again.

I don't see the need to. You said that the US isn't a nation, and multiple dictionaries corrected you. If there is something I'm missing, point me to it.

[Olerand]

Once upon a time. What Americans have ridiculously labeled as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants", as if Anglo-Saxon was an ethnicity one could claim, like one could be Frank, certainly was the culture of America until... I don't know when to draw the line... The 1920s? Afterwards came an era of what can genuinely be called an "American" culture, born out of the Great Depression, New Deal, Second World War. That's dead. Now...


I know what a nation is. Now go over my posts again.

I don't see the need to. You said that the US isn't a nation, and multiple dictionaries corrected you. If there is something I'm missing, point me to it.

You see, a dictionary is not an argument. You may reread my posts if you would like to engage with my argument. Otherwise, I know how to access an English-language dictionary.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I don't see the need to. You said that the US isn't a nation, and multiple dictionaries corrected you. If there is something I'm missing, point me to it.

You see, a dictionary is not an argument. You may reread my posts if you would like to engage with my argument. Otherwise, I know how to access an English-language dictionary.

So in other words, I didn't miss anything.

[Olerand]

You see, a dictionary is not an argument. You may reread my posts if you would like to engage with my argument. Otherwise, I know how to access an English-language dictionary.

So in other words, I didn't miss anything.

You didn't engage in the debate, what is there to miss?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So in other words, I didn't miss anything.

You didn't engage in the debate

Yes I did

[Kramanica]

I don't see the need to. You said that the US isn't a nation, and multiple dictionaries corrected you. If there is something I'm missing, point me to it.

You see, a dictionary is not an argument. You may reread my posts if you would like to engage with my argument. Otherwise, I know how to access an English-language dictionary.

"Just because America meets the definition of a nation doesn't mean it's a nation."

Wanna run that one by me again?

[Sovaal]

You see, a dictionary is not an argument. You may reread my posts if you would like to engage with my argument. Otherwise, I know how to access an English-language dictionary.

"Just because America meets the definition of a nation doesn't mean it's a nation."

Wanna run that one by me again?

Something something American culture doesn’t exist something something elitist European like that.

Or at least that’s how it usually goes.

[Kramanica]

"Just because America meets the definition of a nation doesn't mean it's a nation."

Wanna run that one by me again?

Something something American culture doesn’t exist something something elitist European like that.

Or at least that’s how it usually goes.

Smug European elitism does seem to be Olerand's most defining trait...

[Sovaal]

Something something American culture doesn’t exist something something elitist European like that.

Or at least that’s how it usually goes.

Smug European elitism does seem to be Olerand's most defining trait...

Heh. Eh, there’s just some people where it’s better to just block them and live your life. I’m sure I’ve been that person at times.

[Olerand]

You see, a dictionary is not an argument. You may reread my posts if you would like to engage with my argument. Otherwise, I know how to access an English-language dictionary.

"Just because America meets the definition of a nation doesn't mean it's a nation."

Wanna run that one by me again?

What binds you together?

I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.

What binds you together? What is your nation? A shared understanding of your history? Shared values? Shared commitments and solidarity? Increasingly, America can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?

Something something American culture doesn’t exist something something elitist European like that.

Or at least that’s how it usually goes.

Smug European elitism does seem to be Olerand's most defining trait...

Thank you.

If it makes you feel any better, Canada is not a nation either. Increasingly, neither is the United Kingdom, since Scottish independence became hot for the first time in centuries.

Australia and New Zealand seem to be doing fine.

[Kramanica]

"Just because America meets the definition of a nation doesn't mean it's a nation."

Wanna run that one by me again?

What binds you together?

Shared history, culture, values, a hatred of European elitism, apple pie, football, a love of liberty and freedom. I could go on. That's an incredibly stupid question. American culture is popular all over the world.

I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.

Well, you obviously need a dictionary since you've no idea of what a nation is.

What binds you together? What is your nation?

You going to keep asking vague questions? "What is America"? What is any country? What is France?

A shared understanding of your history?

Yes.

Shared values?

Also yes.

Shared commitments and solidarity?

Yes.

Increasingly, American can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?

Lmao

Most Americans still speak English, m8.

Smug European elitism does seem to be Olerand's most defining trait...

Thank you.

The self-awareness of a rock.

If it makes you feel any better, Canada is not a nation either.

Okay, so you really just don't know what a nation is.

Increasingly, neither is the United Kingdom, since Scottish independence became hot for the first time in centuries.

Scottish independence was a pathetic failure.

Australia and New Zealand seem to be doing fine.

Gonna need a roadmap for that one.

[Olerand]

What binds you together?

Shared history, culture, values, a hatred of European elitism, apple pie, football, a love of liberty and freedom. I could go on. That's an incredibly stupid question. American culture is popular all over the world.

I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.

Well, you obviously need a dictionary since you've no idea of what a nation is.

What binds you together? What is your nation?

You going to keep asking vague questions? "What is America"? What is any country? What is France?

A shared understanding of your history?

Yes.

Shared values?

Also yes.

Shared commitments and solidarity?

Yes.

Increasingly, American can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?

Lmao

Most Americans still speak English, m8.

Thank you.

The self-awareness of a rock.

If it makes you feel any better, Canada is not a nation either.

Okay, so you really just don't know what a nation is.

Increasingly, neither is the United Kingdom, since Scottish independence became hot for the first time in centuries.

Scottish independence was a pathetic failure.

Australia and New Zealand seem to be doing fine.

Gonna need a roadmap for that one.

Your history of the “civil war” or “war of northern aggression”?

Does all of your country view your history, your shared history, from the same understanding? Do all your States view your civil rights movement the same?

All of the other things, save for football, are not true. Apple pie is meaningless, a hatred of European elitism is not shared in the NYC subculture, where I know more people who would wish to be like me and less like the rest of America, for example.

As to freedom and liberty, those are values you can definitely claim, but do they mean the same thing to your LGBT activist and your anti-LGBT activist?

No, this is my third language but I know what a nation is in all of them. And I know that a dictionary cannot act in replacement of an argument either.

France is the Republic, it is the first article of the Constitution, it is social, it is laïque, it speaks French. France is the country of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, France is the country of dirigisme, hidden as it must be now under the guise of global liberalism. France is the preambule of the Constitution of 1948. France is the unitary State, from the time of the monarchy. France is our millennial history of expansion and consolidation, France is Alsace-Lorraine.
France’s identity, our nation, is top-down, obviously formulated by the State. As opposed to Germany, which is more bottom-up, more focused on folksy aspects and communal traditions.

What is the American nation?

Again, I’ve answered those questions. But I’ll address solidarity. I don’t perceive much solidarity in America. In fact, I think American solidarity rarely crosses racial lines. Increasingly, it cannot even be extended to the same race.

I am aware. But an increasing number don’t. And the argument that one need not speak English is both strong, boosted by the American left as it is , and legitimate, as the American State has no language.

I don’t consider being European or elite bad. I know from prior discussions on these forums with similarly minded Americans that the fact that I value knowledge and knowing another language are also traits I should be ashamed of, but I am not.

I wouldn’t consider a Canada that includes Québec a nation, for a start.

45% voted to sever a centuries old union, after a referendum debate that lasted about a year. The secessionist party is still in power, and has not sworn off another referendum, particularly in the case of a hard Brexit. Considering that it is not over, it can’t have failed.

Australia and New Zealand are doing fine. They share common values, common commitments, a common language, and a common understanding of their history.
I will use political examples, the Australian Labor Party supports Australia’s current migrant policies, and the Liberal Party supports Australia’s liberal welfare State.
Partisan extremism in both countries is also lower than in the United Kingdom, and particularly the United States. The dehumanization of political opponents, openly or otherwise, not really a phenomenon. They are similar to Canada in this (mostly), but Canada has its own particular traits.

I know that this is hard to read for an American rightist, blind nationalism being such a strong attribute in this faction, but it is as it is.

[Kramanica]

Shared history, culture, values, a hatred of European elitism, apple pie, football, a love of liberty and freedom. I could go on. That's an incredibly stupid question. American culture is popular all over the world.


Well, you obviously need a dictionary since you've no idea of what a nation is.


You going to keep asking vague questions? "What is America"? What is any country? What is France?


Yes.


Also yes.


Yes.


Lmao

Most Americans still speak English, m8.

The self-awareness of a rock.


Okay, so you really just don't know what a nation is.


Scottish independence was a pathetic failure.


Gonna need a roadmap for that one.

Your history of the “civil war” or “war of northern aggression”?

Does all of your country view your history, your shared history, from the same understanding? Do all your States view your civil rights movement the same?

No, I doubt 100% of people view everything the same. That's true for any country, and so is a ridiculous point.

All of the other things, save for football, are not true.

And thus your ignorance continues to show.

Apple pie is meaningless

Clearly you've never tasted apple pie.

a hatred of European elitism is not shared in the NYC subculture, where I know more people who would wish to be like me and less like the rest of America, for example.

"Wish to be like me"

Now this is astonishing. I've never seen someone disappear so far up their own asshole.

As to freedom and liberty, those are values you can definitely claim, but do they mean the same thing to your LGBT activist and your anti-LGBT activist?

No, not all people share the same definition but we do at least have a general idea of where we want to get. We just disagree on how to get there. You seem to be under this perception that if 100% of people don't agree then there is no nation. That's completely ludicrous.

No, this is my third language but I know what a nation is in all of them. And I know that a dictionary cannot act in replacement of an argument either.

I doubt you even know what it is in French.

France is the Republic

Was it not also the Kingdom? The Empire? You only seem to really embrace the aspects of your history that happened post-French Revolution. Your sense of French pride is very... narrow.

it is the first article of the Constitution

The American Constitution precedes yours.

it is social

Any country is social.

it is laïque, it speaks French.

And America speaks English. Woop-dee-doo.

France is the country of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen

Yes, and America is the country of the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.

France is the country of dirigisme, hidden as it must be now under the guise of global liberalism.

This your third language in action?

France is the preambule of the Constitution of 1948. France is the unitary State, from the time of the monarchy.

Oh, please. Even when the monarchy was established France struggled to form a unitary state. Nobles still had far too much power and it wasn't for many centuries that France formed a strong centralized authority.

France is our millennial history of expansion and consolidation

And here I thought you'd oppose imperialism.

France is Alsace-Lorraine. France’s identity, our nation, is top-down, obviously formulated by the State. As opposed to Germany, which is more bottom-up, more focused on folksy aspects and communal traditions.

You derive your identity from the state. How sad.

What is the American nation?

America is certainly more individualistic, I can tell you that much.

Again, I’ve answered those questions. But I’ll address solidarity. I don’t perceive much solidarity in America. In fact, I think American solidarity rarely crosses racial lines. Increasingly, it cannot even be extended to the same race.

America's history as a melting pot would disagree with you. I can tell you've never been to this country before. Being American, as an identity, is something that has always transcended racial lines.

I am aware. But an increasing number don’t. And the argument that one need not speak English is both strong, boosted by the American left as it is , and legitimate, as the American State has no language.

The Constitution and the Declaration were written in English. A majority of people speak English. You're talking out of your ass.

I don’t consider being European or elite bad. I know from prior discussions on these forums with similarly minded Americans that the fact that I value knowledge and knowing another language are also traits I should be ashamed of, but am not.

You actually consider yourself to be elite? Man, you must be a riot at parties.

I wouldn’t consider a Canada that includes Québec a nation, for a start.

45% voted to sever a centuries old union, after a referendum debate that lasted about a year. The secessionist party is still in power, and has not sworn off another referendum, particularly in the case of a hard Brexit. Considering that it is not over, it can’t have failed.

Australia and New Zealand are doing fine. They share common values, common commitments, a common language, and a common understanding of their history.
I will use political examples, the Australian Labor Party supports Australia’s current migrant policies, and the Liberal Party supports Australia’s liberal welfare State.

I know that this is hard to read, let alone come to understand or accept, for an American rightist, blind nationalism being such a strong attribute in this faction, but it is as it is.

Yes, your enlightened nature is just too overwhelming to understand.

Edit: I won't bother trying to fix this but you get the point. You derive your identity from the state rather than the nation. It's quite sad.

[Olerand]

Your history of the “civil war” or “war of northern aggression”?

Does all of your country view your history, your shared history, from the same understanding? Do all your States view your civil rights movement the same?

No, I doubt 100% of people view everything the same. That's true for any country, and so is a ridiculous point.

All of the other things, save for football, are not true.

And thus your ignorance continues to show.

Apple pie is meaningless

Clearly you've never tasted apple pie.

a hatred of European elitism is not shared in the NYC subculture, where I know more people who would wish to be like me and less like the rest of America, for example.

"Wish to be like me"

Now this is astonishing. I've never seen someone disappear so far up their own asshole.

As to freedom and liberty, those are values you can definitely claim, but do they mean the same thing to your LGBT activist and your anti-LGBT activist?

No, not all people share the same definition but we do at least have a general idea of where we want to get. We just disagree on how to get there. You seem to be under this perception that if 100% of people don't agree then there is no nation. That's completely ludicrous.

No, this is my third language but I know what a nation is in all of them. And I know that a dictionary cannot act in replacement of an argument either.

I doubt you even know what it is in French.

France is the Republic

Was it not also the Kingdom? The Empire? You only seem to really embrace the aspects of your history that happened post-French Revolution. Your sense of French pride is very... narrow.

it is the first article of the Constitution

The American Constitution precedes yours.

it is social

Any country is social.

it is laïque, it speaks French.

And America speaks English. Woop-dee-doo.

France is the country of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen

Yes, and America is the country of the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.

France is the country of dirigisme, hidden as it must be now under the guise of global liberalism.

This your third language in action?

France is the preambule of the Constitution of 1948. France is the unitary State, from the time of the monarchy.

Oh, please. Even when the monarchy was established France struggled to form a unitary state. Nobles still had far too much power and it wasn't for many centuries that France formed a strong centralized authority.

France is our millennial history of expansion and consolidation

And here I thought you'd oppose imperialism.

France is Alsace-Lorraine. France’s identity, our nation, is top-down, obviously formulated by the State. As opposed to Germany, which is more bottom-up, more focused on folksy aspects and communal traditions.

You derive your identity from the state. How sad.

What is the American nation?

America is certainly more individualistic, I can tell you that much.

Again, I’ve answered those questions. But I’ll address solidarity. I don’t perceive much solidarity in America. In fact, I think American solidarity rarely crosses racial lines. Increasingly, it cannot even be extended to the same race.

America's history as a melting pot would disagree with you. I can tell you've never been to this country before. Being American, as an identity, is something that has always transcended racial lines.

I am aware. But an increasing number don’t. And the argument that one need not speak English is both strong, boosted by the American left as it is , and legitimate, as the American State has no language.

The Constitution and the Declaration were written in English. A majority of people speak English. You're talking out of your ass.

I don’t consider being European or elite bad. I know from prior discussions on these forums with similarly minded Americans that the fact that I value knowledge and knowing another language are also traits I should be ashamed of, but am not.

You actually consider yourself to be elite? Man, you must be a riot at parties.

I wouldn’t consider a Canada that includes Québec a nation, for a start.

45% voted to sever a centuries old union, after a referendum debate that lasted about a year. The secessionist party is still in power, and has not sworn off another referendum, particularly in the case of a hard Brexit. Considering that it is not over, it can’t have failed.

Australia and New Zealand are doing fine. They share common values, common commitments, a common language, and a common understanding of their history.
I will use political examples, the Australian Labor Party supports Australia’s current migrant policies, and the Liberal Party supports Australia’s liberal welfare State.

I know that this is hard to read, let alone come to understand or accept, for an American rightist, blind nationalism being such a strong attribute in this faction, but it is as it is.

Yes, your enlightened nature is just too overwhelming to understand.

Edit: I won't bother trying to fix this but you get the point. You derive your identity from the state rather than the nation. It's quite sad.

We do, there are no monarchists to speak of in France. No faction to call the French Revolution the war of Republican agression. You need not come to the same conclusion in history, but you do need to understand it similarly.

You consider it ignorance, I, and others here, consider it clear-eyed analysis.

I have. The apple pie is not in fact an American creation, nor exclusive to America. I have had it in many varieties, including the English (that is the American pie) iteration. I do not enjoy it.

Another national attribute of ours. And yet I personally know many New Yorkers who wish to be like me.

That’s a rather large disagreement no? Let me ask you, what do the LGBT and anti-LGBT activist share in common in their understanding of liberty and freedom (which are the same value)?

Seems I do. Others, English speakers granted, have agreed.

No, France is the Republic. Our identity changes, our history is millennial, we’re not the France of the Middle Ages, absolutely not. We’re not the Franks either.

What does this even mean? Our first article defines France, what do I care of San Marino’s constitution?

Increasingly, not so.

Sure, and? What are your understandings of those documents? These answers would be so much easier if America, like the vast majority of the developed world, did not politicize its judiciary.

Do you not understand? Would you like me to explain what these words mean?

France is the unitary State. The Nation is a social construct. The Nation is unitary, because the State, from the time of the monarchy, constructed it to be so. France the medieval nation did not exist.

Of our land? I think you of all people would defend your own land.

It is one of the methods one can use to build a nation. France was built by the State. That is a fact. The American State has failed to build a nation.

Finally, something that sticks! You are most certainly individualistic. To a fault.

Oh I can assure you I’ve been. And it is because I have been, and heard what I have heard (On this, I need not expand), and seen what I have seen, that I know America is not a nation. Had I not been, I wouldn’t know this for a fact.

And? Your nation has no official language, and a political faction in America insists it need not have it.
I’ve discussed, in this very same thread I believe, the previous American “nations”, which certainly had English as a common language. Now, no such thing exists.

I do quite well at parties, and I know I am elite. Why I have been labeled as such by you and another in this very thread.

Our Nation was built by the State, that’s simply how history transpired. History could be tragic, but not sad.
America still has not developed a nation today.

[Kramanica]

No, I doubt 100% of people view everything the same. That's true for any country, and so is a ridiculous point.


And thus your ignorance continues to show.


Clearly you've never tasted apple pie.


"Wish to be like me"

Now this is astonishing. I've never seen someone disappear so far up their own asshole.


No, not all people share the same definition but we do at least have a general idea of where we want to get. We just disagree on how to get there. You seem to be under this perception that if 100% of people don't agree then there is no nation. That's completely ludicrous.


I doubt you even know what it is in French.


Was it not also the Kingdom? The Empire? You only seem to really embrace the aspects of your history that happened post-French Revolution. Your sense of French pride is very... narrow.


The American Constitution precedes yours.


Any country is social.


And America speaks English. Woop-dee-doo.



Yes, and America is the country of the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.


This your third language in action?



Oh, please. Even when the monarchy was established France struggled to form a unitary state. Nobles still had far too much power and it wasn't for many centuries that France formed a strong centralized authority.


And here I thought you'd oppose imperialism.


You derive your identity from the state. How sad.


America is certainly more individualistic, I can tell you that much.


America's history as a melting pot would disagree with you. I can tell you've never been to this country before. Being American, as an identity, is something that has always transcended racial lines.


The Constitution and the Declaration were written in English. A majority of people speak English. You're talking out of your ass.


You actually consider yourself to be elite? Man, you must be a riot at parties.


Yes, your enlightened nature is just too overwhelming to understand.

Edit: I won't bother trying to fix this but you get the point. You derive your identity from the state rather than the nation. It's quite sad.

We do, there are no monarchists to speak of in France.

Really? In all of France, out of all 67 million of you, there is not a single monarchist? You all think alike?

Is France a hivemind? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.

No faction to call the French Revolution the war of Republican agression. You need not come to the same conclusion in history, but you do need to understand it similarly.

And what understanding you would come to about the Reign of Terror?

You consider it ignorance, I, and others here, consider it clear-eyed analysis.

Because you're approaching it from a point of ignorance. You have a razor-thin understanding of American history.

And who are these others? You seem to be quite alone in this thread.

I have. The apple pie is not in fact an American creation, nor exclusive to America. I have had it in many varieties, including the English (that is the American pie) iteration. I do not enjoy it.

Well, there's the problem right there. Anyone who doesn't enjoy apple pie is clearly not to be trusted.

Another national attribute of ours. And yet I personally know many New Yorkers who wish to be like me.

They want to LARP as an elite?

That’s a rather large disagreement no? Let me ask you, what do the LGBT and anti-LGBT activist share in common in their understanding of liberty and freedom (which are the same value)?

They want liberty. Some want religious liberty. Others want personal liberty.

Seems I do. Others, English speakers granted, have agreed.

Name one.

No, France is the Republic. Our identity changes, our history is millennial, we’re not the France of the Middle Ages, absolutely not. We’re not the Franks either.

Your identity is based upon your form of government? That seems rather thin.

What does this even mean? Our first article defines France, what do I care of San Marino’s constitution?

Does France not have a definition beyond its Constitution? Would you take pride in being French if the French state ceased to exist? Do you have any sense of culture or identity beyond "the Republic"?

Increasingly, not so.

Spicy.

Sure, and? What are your understandings of those documents? These answers would be so much easier if America, like the vast majority of the developed world, did not politicize its judiciary.

My understanding of them is that they are an expression of the values of America's founding. The values that bind us together and that we strive to achieve.

Do you not understand? Would you like me to explain what these words mean?

Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me.

France is the unitary State. The Nation is a social construct. The Nation is unitary, because the State, from the time of the monarchy, constructed it to be so. France the medieval nation did not exist.

So, again, you have no sense of identity beyond the state. You believe that your heritage is inherently tied to the state. How sad.

Of our land? I think you of all people would defend your own land.

You said France expanded. Into whose land did it expand and to what specific pieces of land are you referring to? Brittany? Normandy? What land?

It seemed as though you were referencing France's colonization of Africa.

It is one of the methods one can use to build a nation. France was built by the State. That is a fact. The American State has failed to build a nation.

Nations can exist before a state. You, however, seem to take more pride in the state than the nation. And you have no sense of pride or belonging beyond the state.

You still haven't given your definition of a nation. Still waiting. And it seems I'll be waiting for a while because of all the three languages you allegedly speak you don't know what a nation is in any of them.

Finally, something that sticks! You are most certainly individualistic. To a fault.

Why thank you.

Oh I can assure you I’ve been. And it is because I have been, and heard what I have heard (On this, I need not expand), and seen what I have seen, that I know America is not a nation. Had I not been, I wouldn’t know this for a fact.

And where did you go? To whom did you speak? What did you see?

And? Your nation has no official language, and a political faction in America insists it need not have it.

You don't need an official language you have most of your people speak a certain language. Jesus Christ. If French stopped being your official language would you all start speaking German?

I’ve discussed, in this very same thread I believe, the previous American “nations”, which certainly had English as a common language. Now, no such thing exists.

You can pretend most of us don't speak English. That won't make it true.

I do quite well at parties, and I know I am elite. Why I have been labeled as such by you and another in this very thread.

I said you have an elitist attitude. I never said you were elite.

Funny, I thought a man of the French Revolution would reject ideas of elitism.

Our Nation was built by the State, that’s simply how history transpired. History could be tragic, but not sad.
America still has not developed a nation today.

Still waiting on you to explain what you think a nation is.

[Senegalboy]

"Just because America meets the definition of a nation doesn't mean it's a nation."

Wanna run that one by me again?

What binds you together?

I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.

What binds you together? What is your nation? A shared understanding of your history? Shared values? Shared commitments and solidarity? Increasingly, America can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?

Smug European elitism does seem to be Olerand's most defining trait...

Thank you.

If it makes you feel any better, Canada is not a nation either. Increasingly, neither is the United Kingdom, since Scottish independence became hot for the first time in centuries.

Australia and New Zealand seem to be doing fine.

How is the UK not a nation when it has the oldest type of government in Europe.
Even in terms of language 92% of Brits speak English as a first language whilst only 87% of french people do.

[Olerand]

We do, there are no monarchists to speak of in France.

Really? In all of France, out of all 67 million of you, there is not a single monarchist? You all think alike?

Is France a hivemind? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.

No faction to call the French Revolution the war of Republican agression. You need not come to the same conclusion in history, but you do need to understand it similarly.

And what understanding you would come to about the Reign of Terror?

You consider it ignorance, I, and others here, consider it clear-eyed analysis.

Because you're approaching it from a point of ignorance. You have a razor-thin understanding of American history.

And who are these others? You seem to be quite alone in this thread.

I have. The apple pie is not in fact an American creation, nor exclusive to America. I have had it in many varieties, including the English (that is the American pie) iteration. I do not enjoy it.

Well, there's the problem right there. Anyone who doesn't enjoy apple pie is clearly not to be trusted.

Another national attribute of ours. And yet I personally know many New Yorkers who wish to be like me.

They want to LARP as an elite?

That’s a rather large disagreement no? Let me ask you, what do the LGBT and anti-LGBT activist share in common in their understanding of liberty and freedom (which are the same value)?

They want liberty. Some want religious liberty. Others want personal liberty.

Seems I do. Others, English speakers granted, have agreed.

Name one.

No, France is the Republic. Our identity changes, our history is millennial, we’re not the France of the Middle Ages, absolutely not. We’re not the Franks either.

Your identity is based upon your form of government? That seems rather thin.

What does this even mean? Our first article defines France, what do I care of San Marino’s constitution?

Does France not have a definition beyond its Constitution? Would you take pride in being French if the French state ceased to exist? Do you have any sense of culture or identity beyond "the Republic"?

Increasingly, not so.

Spicy.

Sure, and? What are your understandings of those documents? These answers would be so much easier if America, like the vast majority of the developed world, did not politicize its judiciary.

My understanding of them is that they are an expression of the values of America's founding. The values that bind us together and that we strive to achieve.

Do you not understand? Would you like me to explain what these words mean?

Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me.

France is the unitary State. The Nation is a social construct. The Nation is unitary, because the State, from the time of the monarchy, constructed it to be so. France the medieval nation did not exist.

So, again, you have no sense of identity beyond the state. You believe that your heritage is inherently tied to the state. How sad.

Of our land? I think you of all people would defend your own land.

You said France expanded. Into whose land did it expand and to what specific pieces of land are you referring to? Brittany? Normandy? What land?

It seemed as though you were referencing France's colonization of Africa.

It is one of the methods one can use to build a nation. France was built by the State. That is a fact. The American State has failed to build a nation.

Nations can exist before a state. You, however, seem to take more pride in the state than the nation. And you have no sense of pride or belonging beyond the state.

You still haven't given your definition of a nation. Still waiting. And it seems I'll be waiting for a while because of all the three languages you allegedly speak you don't know what a nation is in any of them.

Finally, something that sticks! You are most certainly individualistic. To a fault.

Why thank you.

Oh I can assure you I’ve been. And it is because I have been, and heard what I have heard (On this, I need not expand), and seen what I have seen, that I know America is not a nation. Had I not been, I wouldn’t know this for a fact.

And where did you go? To whom did you speak? What did you see?

And? Your nation has no official language, and a political faction in America insists it need not have it.

You don't need an official language you have most of your people speak a certain language. Jesus Christ. If French stopped being your official language would you all start speaking German?

I’ve discussed, in this very same thread I believe, the previous American “nations”, which certainly had English as a common language. Now, no such thing exists.

You can pretend most of us don't speak English. That won't make it true.

I do quite well at parties, and I know I am elite. Why I have been labeled as such by you and another in this very thread.

I said you have an elitist attitude. I never said you were elite.

Funny, I thought a man of the French Revolution would reject ideas of elitism.

Our Nation was built by the State, that’s simply how history transpired. History could be tragic, but not sad.
America still has not developed a nation today.

Still waiting on you to explain what you think a nation is.

I can see from your redundant questions that you have not actually read any of my other posts on this very thread. If you are actually interested in knowing more about the topic, beyond plain self-affirmation, you are welcome to go over my posts and find your answers therein.

In addition, there are indeed individual, mostly old, mostly inbred royalists in France. They have no political faction to speak of, nor a group. They are irrelevant. I, again, never claimed that 100% of everyone must be the same, nor that the outcomes of history must be analyzed the same. But the crushing majority of your people, of your political factions, need to understand history the same. Which America does not.

And in France, we value earned elitism. That is what separates us from other countries of hereditary, unearned privileges, such as the monarchy to our north and the political dynasties to our west.

What binds you together?

I keep asking this question and I keep getting no response, other than a link to Dictionary.com or something.

What binds you together? What is your nation? A shared understanding of your history? Shared values? Shared commitments and solidarity? Increasingly, America can’t even claim to have a shared language. What binds you together?


Thank you.

If it makes you feel any better, Canada is not a nation either. Increasingly, neither is the United Kingdom, since Scottish independence became hot for the first time in centuries.

Australia and New Zealand seem to be doing fine.

How is the UK not a nation when it has the oldest type of government in Europe.
Even in terms of language 92% of Brits speak English as a first language whilst only 87% of french people do.

Because a significant part of its population (45% of Scotland, maybe more now, depending on the results of a future referendum) doesn't want to be there.

What the British nation was, what could hold England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland together is no more. The British themselves will tell you that.

In addition, the languages spoken in France other than French are immigrant languages. Arabic, Portuguese, Spanish, and Italian. Not languages native to France. And those numbers, from an EU survey in 2007 asked what the speakers' mother tongue was. Not what language they spoke in France.
I need not bring up our problems with making the speakers of the first language identify as French again, you of all people should know about that.

[Senegalboy]

Really? In all of France, out of all 67 million of you, there is not a single monarchist? You all think alike?

Is France a hivemind? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.


And what understanding you would come to about the Reign of Terror?


Because you're approaching it from a point of ignorance. You have a razor-thin understanding of American history.

And who are these others? You seem to be quite alone in this thread.


Well, there's the problem right there. Anyone who doesn't enjoy apple pie is clearly not to be trusted.


They want to LARP as an elite?


They want liberty. Some want religious liberty. Others want personal liberty.


Name one.


Your identity is based upon your form of government? That seems rather thin.


Does France not have a definition beyond its Constitution? Would you take pride in being French if the French state ceased to exist? Do you have any sense of culture or identity beyond "the Republic"?


Spicy.


My understanding of them is that they are an expression of the values of America's founding. The values that bind us together and that we strive to achieve.


Knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me.


So, again, you have no sense of identity beyond the state. You believe that your heritage is inherently tied to the state. How sad.


You said France expanded. Into whose land did it expand and to what specific pieces of land are you referring to? Brittany? Normandy? What land?

It seemed as though you were referencing France's colonization of Africa.


Nations can exist before a state. You, however, seem to take more pride in the state than the nation. And you have no sense of pride or belonging beyond the state.

You still haven't given your definition of a nation. Still waiting. And it seems I'll be waiting for a while because of all the three languages you allegedly speak you don't know what a nation is in any of them.


Why thank you.


And where did you go? To whom did you speak? What did you see?


You don't need an official language you have most of your people speak a certain language. Jesus Christ. If French stopped being your official language would you all start speaking German?


You can pretend most of us don't speak English. That won't make it true.


I said you have an elitist attitude. I never said you were elite.

Funny, I thought a man of the French Revolution would reject ideas of elitism.


Still waiting on you to explain what you think a nation is.

I can see from your redundant questions that you have not actually read any of my other posts on this very thread. If you are actually interested in knowing more about the topic, beyond plain self-affirmation, you are welcome to go over my posts and find your answers therein.

In addition, there are indeed individual, mostly old, mostly inbred royalists in France. They have no political faction to speak of, nor a group. They are irrelevant. I, again, never claimed that 100% of everyone must be the same, nor that the outcomes of history must be analyzed the same. But the crushing majority of your people, of your political factions, need to understand history the same. Which America does not.

And in France, we value earned elitism. That is what separates us from other countries of hereditary, unearned privileges, such as the monarchy to our north and the political dynasties to our west.

How is the UK not a nation when it has the oldest type of government in Europe.
Even in terms of language 92% of Brits speak English as a first language whilst only 87% of french people do.

Because a significant part of its population (45% of Scotland, maybe more now, depending on the results of a future referendum) doesn't want to be there.

What the British nation was, what could hold England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland together is no more. The British themselves will tell you that.

In addition, the languages spoken in France other than French are immigrant languages. Arabic, Portuguese, Spanish, and Italian. Not languages native to France. And those numbers, from an EU survey in 2007 asked what the speakers' mother tongue was. Not what language they spoke in France.
I need not bring up our problems with making the speakers of the first language identify as French again, you of all people should know about that.

Of course the UK does have regional problems but also relatively united. Wales and England will never leave and 62% of Scots and 70% of the Northern Irish voted for a unionist party.

[Olerand]

I can see from your redundant questions that you have not actually read any of my other posts on this very thread. If you are actually interested in knowing more about the topic, beyond plain self-affirmation, you are welcome to go over my posts and find your answers therein.

In addition, there are indeed individual, mostly old, mostly inbred royalists in France. They have no political faction to speak of, nor a group. They are irrelevant. I, again, never claimed that 100% of everyone must be the same, nor that the outcomes of history must be analyzed the same. But the crushing majority of your people, of your political factions, need to understand history the same. Which America does not.

And in France, we value earned elitism. That is what separates us from other countries of hereditary, unearned privileges, such as the monarchy to our north and the political dynasties to our west.


Because a significant part of its population (45% of Scotland, maybe more now, depending on the results of a future referendum) doesn't want to be there.

What the British nation was, what could hold England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland together is no more. The British themselves will tell you that.

In addition, the languages spoken in France other than French are immigrant languages. Arabic, Portuguese, Spanish, and Italian. Not languages native to France. And those numbers, from an EU survey in 2007 asked what the speakers' mother tongue was. Not what language they spoke in France.
I need not bring up our problems with making the speakers of the first language identify as French again, you of all people should know about that.

Of course the UK does have regional problems but also relatively united. Wales and England will never leave and 62% of Scots and 70% of the Northern Irish voted for a unionist party.

Wales would not leave, probably true. What would England leave? The United Kingdom without England would cease to exist. Increasingly, Britain is England.

And how the electorate vote in general elections in the United Kingdom does not counter an actual referendum on independence. Voting for Labour so that the Tories can't form government, fully knowing that the SNP has no chance, does not translate into a vote for a no in an independence referendum. Not to mention the double digit difference in turnout.
As the results show, the referendum garnered around 44,7% of 84,6% for leaving, while the elections gave 63,1% of 66,4% for a "unionist" party.

Northern Ireland would probably also not leave, mostly due to its internal dynamics.

But the fact that Scotland would, with a slim enough majority, is trouble enough for Britain. And I need not elaborate on the lack of a feeling of belonging to a British nation, more than enough British writers have contributed to the topic, from 2014 until now.

EDIT: I should note however that Britain has what it takes for nationhood, a strong one, and it had a nation up until... Around 1979, around the same time that the American national feeling began to die out across the pond too.

[Senegalboy]

Of course the UK does have regional problems but also relatively united. Wales and England will never leave and 62% of Scots and 70% of the Northern Irish voted for a unionist party.

Wales would not leave, probably true. What would England leave? The United Kingdom without England would cease to exist. Increasingly, Britain is England.

And how the electorate vote in general elections in the United Kingdom does not counter an actual referendum on independence. Voting for Labour so that the Tories can't form government, fully knowing that the SNP has no chance, does not translate into a vote for a no in an independence referendum. Not to mention the double digit difference in turnout.
As the results show, the referendum garnered around 44,7% of 84,6% for leaving, while the elections gave 63,1% of 66,4% for a "unionist" party.

Northern Ireland would probably also not leave, mostly due to its internal dynamics.

But the fact that Scotland would, with a slim enough majority, is trouble enough for Britain. And I need not elaborate on the lack of a feeling of belonging to a British nation, more than enough British writers have contributed to the topic, from 2014 until now.

But France have had these types of problems especially in Corsica but France is still a nation.

[Olerand]

Wales would not leave, probably true. What would England leave? The United Kingdom without England would cease to exist. Increasingly, Britain is England.

And how the electorate vote in general elections in the United Kingdom does not counter an actual referendum on independence. Voting for Labour so that the Tories can't form government, fully knowing that the SNP has no chance, does not translate into a vote for a no in an independence referendum. Not to mention the double digit difference in turnout.
As the results show, the referendum garnered around 44,7% of 84,6% for leaving, while the elections gave 63,1% of 66,4% for a "unionist" party.

Northern Ireland would probably also not leave, mostly due to its internal dynamics.

But the fact that Scotland would, with a slim enough majority, is trouble enough for Britain. And I need not elaborate on the lack of a feeling of belonging to a British nation, more than enough British writers have contributed to the topic, from 2014 until now.

But France have had these types of problems especially in Corsica but France is still a nation.

It is debatable if Corsica is a part of France. A referendum on the topic would clarify the issue. Fortunately, Corsica is an irrelevant part of France.

[Senegalboy]

But France have had these types of problems especially in Corsica but France is still a nation.

It is debatable if Corsica is a part of France. A referendum on the topic would clarify the issue. Fortunately, France is much more than Corsica.

Britain generally has a strong sense of nationhood whether the four nations(Englnd,Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland) or the UK. I think France has less regional rivalry and more cohesion but in terms of Patriotism Americans and to a lesser extent Brits are more Patriotic but France is still a nation.