Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Olerand]

I'm an American, and my country is very much not a Nation-State. We may (mostly) speak the same language in all 50 states, but we've never valued cultural uniformity like France does. America is much more like an Empire than a Nation-State, since we have one government ruling over many cultures rather than one culture for the whole country. (I cannot express enough how much I detest Nation-States, I find the very idea of them abhorrent.)

There are separate non-French cultures in France (the aforementioned Britons and Basque).

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I'm telling you that every mosque who advocates for Jihad is yes. [b]That you have this contrived vision of Islam[/b) is well established, but clearly the majority of mosques in France comply with the law.

Idk what this means, whether it means I see Al-Islam as different from what Allah (SWT) and Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), which I try not to have, or if I have a vision for Al-Islam in terms of Islamism, which I do. Either way, the point of what I'm trying to say is that by banning talking about jihad - if that's truly what France has done - is that imams can't speak about fighting against yourself when the urge to commit sin arises, or jihad in the case of keeping to your faith in a faithless world.

Or physically fighting fee sabeelillah.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Multiculturalism makes me learn more about tolerance with others. Tolerance on religion, speech, culture and etc.

If you want to learn things there's books and internet. It's not 1250 AD.

You don't learn tolerance from a book.

[Olerand]

I'm telling you that every mosque who advocates for Jihad is yes. [b]That you have this contrived vision of Islam[/b) is well established, but clearly the majority of mosques in France comply with the law.

Idk what this means, whether it means I see Al-Islam as different from what Allah (SWT) and Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), which I try not to have, or if I have a vision for Al-Islam in terms of Islamism, which I do. Either way, the point of what I'm trying to say is that by banning talking about jihad - if that's truly what France has done - is that imams can't speak about fighting against yourself when the urge to commit sin arises, or jihad in the case of keeping to your faith in a faithless world.

Or physically fighting fee sabeelillah.

It means that repeatedly, you've broken from traditional orthodoxy and shaped Islam and its beliefs to your wills when it suits you. For example, you insist on you having the right to interpret jurisprudence, in contradiction with the Ulama even, which you do not.

And I am aware you are an Islamist, which again, sometimes brings you to a conflict with the Ulama.

And you know as well as I do what the popular perception of jihad is, and which way the usage of that term would approach being illicit. The usage of the word is probably avoided, yes; the French language is very rich, and it is possible to describe self-improvement in other terminology. Failing that, personal jihad is not illegal. Advocating for jihad, which again, popular perception understands in a certain way, would at the very least cause a scandal. A scandal that has yet to emerge for imams who don't advocate that kind of jihad. Which must mean that they're doing something right. Like avoiding advocating for jihad.

Calling for jihad "to keep your faith in a faithless world" is illegal once those actions manifest beyond your own sovereign body.

[Isilanka]

There are separate non-French cultures in France (the aforementioned Britons and Basque).

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

You could add a few Bretons, but those who actually want independence - or any kind of autonomy past language recognition - are at best a fringe minority.

[Kubumba Tribe]

http://www1.cmc.edu/pages/faculty/alee/ ... alues.html
https://www.andrews.edu/~tidwell/bsad560/USValues.html
https://vintageamericanways.com/american-values/

[Auze]

There are separate non-French cultures in France (the aforementioned Britons and Basque).

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

Manly because they were the first two I thought of. A shrinking number of people in Northern Basque country speak Basque (though it's being repressed by the French government). 226,00 people speak Breton in France, down from a million in 1950. Quite a few seem to refuse the value of "suppress all other languages besides French". I was referring to them as non-french cultures from a linguistic perspective, in which they aren't. I repeat my question, should the people that move to Basque country learn Basque, and should the people that move to Brittany and Corsica learn Breton and Corsican?

[Kubumba Tribe]

Idk what this means, whether it means I see Al-Islam as different from what Allah (SWT) and Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), which I try not to have, or if I have a vision for Al-Islam in terms of Islamism, which I do. Either way, the point of what I'm trying to say is that by banning talking about jihad - if that's truly what France has done - is that imams can't speak about fighting against yourself when the urge to commit sin arises, or jihad in the case of keeping to your faith in a faithless world.

Or physically fighting fee sabeelillah.

It means that repeatedly, you've broken from traditional orthodoxy and shaped Islam and its beliefs to your wills when it suits you. For example, you insist on you having the right to interpret jurisprudence, in contradiction with the Ulama even, which you do not.

Examples?

And you know as well as I do what the popular perception of jihad is, and which way the usage of that term would approach being illicit. The usage of the word is probably avoided, yes; the French language is very rich, and it is possible to describe self-improvement in other terminology. Failing that, personal jihad is not illegal. Advocating for jihad, which again, popular perception understands in a certain way, would at the very least cause a scandal. A scandal that has yet to emerge for imams who don't advocate that kind of jihad.

If you're talking about terrorism, just say it.

[Canadensia]

There are separate non-French cultures in France (the aforementioned Britons and Basque).

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

It's worth noting that this is only the case because France actively pursued a policy of assimilation for the better part of two centuries. There were quite the substantial number of cultural differences between Frenchmen, Occitans, Bretons and even Basque prior to the Vergonha. Not so many thereafter.

[Olerand]

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

You could add a few Bretons, but those who actually want independence - or any kind of autonomy past language recognition - are at best a fringe minority.

I know many Breton. I need not ask them, I know the answer. The regionalist party, which wants more autonomy within France (which honestly isn't that much, they don't even want to be able to make their own laws, just have their patois or whatever officially recognized, which France does not do, and hopefully never will; as well as to the re-attachment of Loire-Atlantique to Bretagne, which is a common sense proposal that even I can support, though I am also satisfied with not fulfilling it if it will spite the regionalists), but not independence. The UDB has no representation in any hall of power, not even the regional council anymore. And its best score is in the sixth district of Finistère, where it got 13,88% of the vote and failed to qualify for the runoff.

http://www1.cmc.edu/pages/faculty/alee/extra/American_values.html
https://www.andrews.edu/~tidwell/bsad560/USValues.html
https://vintageamericanways.com/american-values/

What does any of this mean? The gun-owner of Texas has the same perception of these values as the genderfluid barista of San Francisco?

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

Manly because they were the first two I thought of. A shrinking number of people in Northern Basque country speak Basque (though it's being repressed by the French government). 226,00 people speak Breton in France, down from a million in 1950. Quite a few seem to refuse the value of "suppress all other languages besides French". I was referring to them as non-french cultures from a linguistic perspective, in which they aren't. I repeat my question, should the people that move to Basque country learn Basque, and should the people that move to Brittany and Corsica learn Breton and Corsican?

I'm aware of their numbers, and that they are dying out, which is fine.

And no, they should not. Bretagne, the Pays basque, and yes, even Corsica, are a part of the French Republic, and not a Nation-State of their own.

It means that repeatedly, you've broken from traditional orthodoxy and shaped Islam and its beliefs to your wills when it suits you. For example, you insist on you having the right to interpret jurisprudence, in contradiction with the Ulama even, which you do not.

Examples?

And you know as well as I do what the popular perception of jihad is, and which way the usage of that term would approach being illicit. The usage of the word is probably avoided, yes; the French language is very rich, and it is possible to describe self-improvement in other terminology. Failing that, personal jihad is not illegal. Advocating for jihad, which again, popular perception understands in a certain way, would at the very least cause a scandal. A scandal that has yet to emerge for imams who don't advocate that kind of jihad.

If you're talking about terrorism, just say it.

Again, you're welcome to go over our copious prior correspondence. I have noted this, repeatedly, across many threads.

I didn't think I needed to. Confusion clarified.

Who speaks Breton and Basque? And why didn't the Occitans make the list? The Alsaciens? The Flamands? The Auvergnats?

EDIT: Better yet, who identifies as non-French amongst these groups? Who wants to separate? Who refuses the values of the Republic?

So far, only the Corsicans, and that's still an open debate. New Caledonia will even most likely vote, with around 60%, to remain in the Republic soon.

It's worth noting that this is only the case because France actively pursued a policy of assimilation for the better part of two centuries. There were quite the substantial number of cultural differences between Frenchmen, Occitans, Bretons and even Basque prior to the Vergonha. Not so many thereafter.

[Canadensia]

It's worth noting that this is only the case because France actively pursued a policy of assimilation for the better part of two centuries. There were quite the substantial number of cultural differences between Frenchmen, Occitans, Bretons and even Basque prior to the Vergonha. Not so many thereafter.

Heh, nothing really. Just thought it was worth pointing out that French cultural policies are highly assimilationist, and the current monolithic French culture in mainland France only exists as a result of these policies.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I THINK IT NEEDS TO STOP

I wish this dude actually explained his/her stance and which one he/she thinks should stop.

[Trumptonium1]

If you want to learn things there's books and internet. It's not 1250 AD.

You don't learn tolerance from a book.

You learn tolerance by the eye and the ear.

Sometimes you see degeneracy and you hear bombs.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Sometimes you see degeneracy and you hear bombs.

Where tfreak did this come from

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Sometimes you see degeneracy and you hear bombs.

Where tfreak did this come from

A B-52 of course.

[The East Marches II]

Well, I suppose one very good value besides being able to handle adult things like free speech and the whole restraint on police powers is backbone. We didn't pay a bribe to a dictator after the already Feds shit the bed by officially inviting in millions of "migrants". That's a good one :^)

Also ability to take decisive action in an economic crisis. It's a good national value not to believe in cutting off your nose to spite your face. Greece like actions would never be tolerated here. Much less supported by staunch """left wing""" parties.

I literally don't know what any of this means. Probably because most of this means nothing.

I imagine French media doesn't cover the debacles in England and Germany so I'll excuse the lack knowledge on the first part.

Surely you remember disagreeing quite heavily with Gravlen over paying Erdogan a bribe and the general handling of the refugee crisis? Or the stab in the back by the general left regarding taking German ideas on how to handle the Eurozone crisis?

At least, we possess the value of freeze peach and taking decisive action rather than... well the track record of Europe for the last 8 years.

[Olerand]

I literally don't know what any of this means. Probably because most of this means nothing.

I imagine French media doesn't cover the debacles in England and Germany so I'll excuse the lack knowledge on the first part.

Surely you remember disagreeing quite heavily with Gravlen over paying Erdogan a bribe and the general handling of the refugee crisis? Or the stab in the back by the general left regarding taking German ideas on how to handle the Eurozone crisis?

At least, we possess the value of freeze peach and taking decisive action rather than... well the track record of Europe for the last 8 years.

What is it you are referring to, exactly?

And do I disagree with having to pay Erdogan to keep the migrants? Yes. Is it, in the political climate we have now, the best option? Yes. Do I disagree with how the left, and even more so, the PS, has handled the European economic crisis? Absolutely. Do I think France under the previous government should have practiced the empty seat policy? Absolutely.

But, oh well.

And yes, freeze peach is very important. Anyway, you know my position on this. There is no point to unlimited free speech.

[The East Marches II]

I imagine French media doesn't cover the debacles in England and Germany so I'll excuse the lack knowledge on the first part.

Surely you remember disagreeing quite heavily with Gravlen over paying Erdogan a bribe and the general handling of the refugee crisis? Or the stab in the back by the general left regarding taking German ideas on how to handle the Eurozone crisis?

At least, we possess the value of freeze peach and taking decisive action rather than... well the track record of Europe for the last 8 years.

What is it you are referring to, exactly?

And do I disagree with having to pay Erdogan to keep the migrants? Yes. Is it, in the political climate we have now, the best option? Yes. Do I disagree with how the left, and even more so, the PS, has handled the European economic crisis? Absolutely. Do I think France under the previous government should have practiced the empty seat policy? Absolutely.

But, oh well.

And yes, freeze peach is very important. Anyway, you know my position on this. There is no point to unlimited free speech.

The Krauts refusing to enforce basic criminal stuff but trawling for offensive posts. Raiding homes for shitposts on Twitter and fining old ladies. Let's not forget endorsing some of the most restrictive so called "IP" laws going to probably pass in the EU. England arresting teenage girls for hate speech because they posted song lyrics (something they promised wouldn't happen), the Nazi dog debacle, and arresting a man who is slow for having a potato peeler in public. Oh yes and making thought crime laws. Germany may soon follow suit but all those Erdogan supporters who proclaim their love for him and rally against the German state, these aren't a threat!

For the faults of the States, Trump looks very sane by comparison.

You've disarmed me by being so reasonable. Regarding bribing Erdogan, it's a bit late isn't it? Most already made it and those who couldn't afford it were stuck. I don't see what the outrage is over Italy. It's cheaper than bribing a Libyan dicator to do it for them.

[Olerand]

What is it you are referring to, exactly?

And do I disagree with having to pay Erdogan to keep the migrants? Yes. Is it, in the political climate we have now, the best option? Yes. Do I disagree with how the left, and even more so, the PS, has handled the European economic crisis? Absolutely. Do I think France under the previous government should have practiced the empty seat policy? Absolutely.

But, oh well.

And yes, freeze peach is very important. Anyway, you know my position on this. There is no point to unlimited free speech.

The Krauts refusing to enforce basic criminal stuff but trawling for offensive posts. Raiding homes for shitposts on Twitter and fining old ladies. Let's not forget endorsing some of the most restrictive so called "IP" laws going to probably pass in the EU. England arresting teenage girls for hate speech because they posted song lyrics (something they promised wouldn't happen), the Nazi dog debacle, and arresting a man who is slow for having a potato peeler in public. Oh yes and making thought crime laws. Germany may soon follow suit but all those Erdogan supporters who proclaim their love for him and rally against the German state, these aren't a threat!

For the faults of the States, Trump looks very sane by comparison.

You've disarmed me by being so reasonable. Regarding bribing Erdogan, it's a bit late isn't it? Most already made it and those who couldn't afford it were stuck. I don't see what the outrage is over Italy. It's cheaper than bribing a Libyan dicator to do it for them.

I don't think anyone in Germany would say the Islamist Turks aren't a threat. They just wouldn't say, in clear words, that they are. The Germans have a particular history, as you know.

As for the other enforcements of these laws, well, I don't mind. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs or something non?

As for the EU IP law, that is still up for debate, and it is more complex than the internet trolls have made it. One of the diseases of our time are influential figures like the Swedish Felix youtuber man who spoke out against this. Suddenly, a lot of people who are as misinformed as he is (he apparently also made a video denouncing net neutrality, thinking it was the opposite of what it actually was) had very strong opinions about a law that is halfway good and halfway unenforcable.

Well... There are yet 2 or 3 million Syrians in Turkey. Not to mention those in Lebanon and Jordan, or the Afghanis or any other variety of nationalities that came with the inane migrant policies of 2015.

Italy is bribing the Libyans though too. And Macron's browbeating of Rome is particularly indecent, considering France really doesn't want to take in these migrants either.

[Second Empire of America]

What is it? But better yet, what are your values? What do you share in common? Why is New England still in this same federation as the Deep South?

They're in the same federation because the federal government will beat up anyone who tries to leave. The Deep South tried to rebel and become independent, and they lost horribly.

[Aellex]

It's worth noting that this is only the case because France actively pursued a policy of assimilation for the better part of two centuries. There were quite the substantial number of cultural differences between Frenchmen, Occitans, Bretons and even Basque prior to the Vergonha. Not so many thereafter.

[Olerand]

What is it? But better yet, what are your values? What do you share in common? Why is New England still in this same federation as the Deep South?

They're in the same federation because the federal government will beat up anyone who tries to leave. The Deep South tried to rebel and become independent, and they lost horribly.

What a terrible way to hold a country together. Threatening force so people don't leave a country without a nation.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They're in the same federation because the federal government will beat up anyone who tries to leave. The Deep South tried to rebel and become independent, and they lost horribly.

What a terrible way to hold a country together. Threatening force so people don't leave a country without a nation.

The US is a nation: https://www.google.com/search?q=nation& ... e&ie=UTF-8

[Olerand]

What a terrible way to hold a country together. Threatening force so people don't leave a country without a nation.

The US is a nation: https://www.google.com/search?q=nation& ... e&ie=UTF-8

Go over my posts again.

[New Wrepland]

What is it?

Anglo-Saxon culture.