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Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:52 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Something something your beliefs don't matter, something something Uzbekistan...

Sound familiar, that's you clearly expressing that you don't consider everyone equal.

Never once did i say your beliefs didn't matter.


You specifically stated that they were less important than your values. That isn't equality.
-2.25 LEFT
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PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Genivaria
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Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:53 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Implications, you should learn what they are.


Such as the ones inherent in making common cause with Islamists too

San Lumen makes common cause with Islamists does he?
Dear me I think we'll have to arrange a chat.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

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Kubumba Tribe
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Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:04 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:I'm pretty sure both you and San Lumen share that value.


I'm 100% certain we do not.

You don't believe everyone is equal, regardless of race, religion, eethnicity or sexual orientation?
Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Never once did i say your beliefs didn't matter.


You specifically stated that they were less important than your values. That isn't equality.

Where has he done this?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:08 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I'm 100% certain we do not.

You don't believe everyone is equal, regardless of race, religion, eethnicity or sexual orientation?
Telconi wrote:
You specifically stated that they were less important than your values. That isn't equality.

Where has he done this?


I do not, no, and neither does Lumen AFAIK.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:13 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:You don't believe everyone is equal, regardless of race, religion, eethnicity or sexual orientation?

Where has he done this?


I do not, no, and neither does Lumen AFAIK.

So someone of a different ethnic group isn't equal to someone from another? And yes, according to San Lumen's posts, he does believe in that.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:20 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I do not, no, and neither does Lumen AFAIK.

So someone of a different ethnic group isn't equal to someone from another? And yes, according to San Lumen's posts, he does believe in that.


I don't think any ethnic group is below another.

Sure.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Parkus Empire
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Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:22 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I do not, no, and neither does Lumen AFAIK.

So someone of a different ethnic group isn't equal to someone from another? And yes, according to San Lumen's posts, he does believe in that.

Someone from the same ethnic group isn't equal to someone else from it. Certainly if you switched the populations of two ethnically different countries, each country will change drastically.
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Socailist Surry County
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Posts: 2
Founded: Jun 22, 2018
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Postby Socailist Surry County » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:24 pm

I THINK IT NEEDS TO STOP

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:31 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:So someone of a different ethnic group isn't equal to someone from another? And yes, according to San Lumen's posts, he does believe in that.

Someone from the same ethnic group isn't equal to someone else from it. Certainly if you switched the populations of two ethnically different countries, each country will change drastically.

I'm talking about in terms of civil/human rights.
Socailist Surry County wrote:I THINK IT NEEDS TO STOP

Why?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:32 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:I'm talking about in terms of civil/human rights.

That doesn't make any sense, different ethnicities with their own countries use different sets of rights. To presume all should have the same universally is ridiculous.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Kubumba Tribe
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Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:35 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:I'm talking about in terms of civil/human rights.

That doesn't make any sense, different ethnicities with their own countries use different sets of rights. To presume all should have the same universally is ridiculous.

So voting rights should be different for different ethnicities? What about working rights? Should one ethnic group have better working conditions than another? Should one ethnic group be subjected to Jim Crow-like laws? Should access to education be different for different ethnicities? Same questions for religious groups, sexes and LGBT.
Last edited by Kubumba Tribe on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53341
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:42 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Someone from the same ethnic group isn't equal to someone else from it. Certainly if you switched the populations of two ethnically different countries, each country will change drastically.

I'm talking about in terms of civil/human rights.


You literally want people to be whipped and abide by shariah law lol, who the fuck are you to talk about civil or human rights?
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:44 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:I'm talking about in terms of civil/human rights.


You literally want people to be whipped and abide by shariah law lol, who the fuck are you to talk about civil or human rights?

A person on a the interwebs, talking about human rights.
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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:45 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:That doesn't make any sense, different ethnicities with their own countries use different sets of rights. To presume all should have the same universally is ridiculous.

So voting rights should be different for different ethnicities? What about working rights? Should one ethnic group have better working conditions than another? Should one ethnic group be subjected to Jim Crow-like laws? Should access to education be different for different ethnicities? Same questions for religious groups, sexes and LGBT.

I don't think all that is necessary, although I would support a poll tax and a literacy test.

Public schools should obviously cater to their community's religion. Not to some random snowflake who gets triggered if the community doesn't revolve around him.

Same sex marriage shouldn't exist, no.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:46 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You literally want people to be whipped and abide by shariah law lol, who the fuck are you to talk about civil or human rights?

A person on a the interwebs, talking about human rights.


You evidently don't actually care very much about the topic.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Kubumba Tribe
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Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:48 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:So voting rights should be different for different ethnicities? What about working rights? Should one ethnic group have better working conditions than another? Should one ethnic group be subjected to Jim Crow-like laws? Should access to education be different for different ethnicities? Same questions for religious groups, sexes and LGBT.

I don't think all that is necessary, although I would support a poll tax and a literacy test.

So then you agree that ethnic groups should have equal opportunity.
The Parkus Empire wrote:Public schools should obviously cater to their community's religion. Not to some random snowflake who gets triggered if the community doesn't revolve around him.

Agreed
The Parkus Empire wrote:Same sex marriage shouldn't exist, no.

Somewhat agreed.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:49 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:A person on a the interwebs, talking about human rights.


You evidently don't actually care very much about the topic.

>Doesn't care
>Talking about it
Pick one.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:49 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:So then you agree that ethnic groups should have equal opportunity.

I don't agree that even two persons should have equal opportunity, let alone ethnic groups. It is impossible to create equal opportunity without equality of environment, which in turn is impossible unless you go Bolshevik.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 53341
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:49 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You evidently don't actually care very much about the topic.

>Doesn't care
>Talking about it
Pick one.


This might come as a shock to you but you can talk about anything. Fucking mind blowing, right?
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:51 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:So then you agree that ethnic groups should have equal opportunity.

I don't agree that even two persons should have equal opportunity, let alone ethnic groups. It is impossible to create equal opportunity without equality of environment, which in turn is impossible unless you go Bolshevik.

So.....for example, a Pashtun shouldn't have the right to vote, but a Han Chinese should?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:51 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:>Doesn't care
>Talking about it
Pick one.


This might come as a shock to you but you can talk about anything. Fucking mind blowing, right?

Not really, it's not that mind blowing.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69785
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:52 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You evidently don't actually care very much about the topic.

>Doesn't care
>Talking about it
Pick one.

Kubumba we are all very aware of your ability to talk.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:55 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I don't agree that even two persons should have equal opportunity, let alone ethnic groups. It is impossible to create equal opportunity without equality of environment, which in turn is impossible unless you go Bolshevik.

So.....for example, a Pashtun shouldn't have the right to vote, but a Han Chinese should?

I'm more concerned about people who don't own land voting.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53341
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:58 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
This might come as a shock to you but you can talk about anything. Fucking mind blowing, right?

Not really, it's not that mind blowing.


Congrats, you now understand how talking about something doesn't mean you actually care about it.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:59 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:So.....for example, a Pashtun shouldn't have the right to vote, but a Han Chinese should?

I'm more concerned about people who don't own land voting.

So then it's not about ethnicity, it's about money.
Why should people who own land be given the right to vote, and not people who don't own land? Doesn't this mean suburban and rural people get more voting rights than urbanites? Why tho?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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