Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Thanatttynia]

And that is as opposed to non-multicultural areas, where people of different ethnicities do mingle ??? I might have misjudged your intent but it seemed to me as though you were implying that this problem wouldn't exist if multicultural areas didn't exist.


1) I won't debate you on this point yet. For now: you said 'the only thing stopping blacks is themselves'. How do you get to there from 'are there any current laws right now that stop black people from moving up in society? The answer is no.' Is the only possible reason for continued racial inequality (other than state-mandated racism) that people of colour are bringing it upon themselves?
2) And the point you are trying to make with that information is what, exactly? That it led to a better life for black people in the 50s than what is currently the case?
3) I literally just then explained to you how it was a generalisation. It was a racist generalisation and you shouldn't have made it.

1. Just pointing out that there are no current laws on the books that active stop blacks or other minorities from doing anything.

2. The point I'm making is that two parent homes create better situations for everyone.

3. I'm not generalizing as I said most black people I'm not saying all black people. You're just twisting what I said as I know that not all black people think that way also I live in an inner city and I listen to other black people talk and that's how they talk, now I could be mishearing them but I have heard among a group of black people asking if he "buned her" though it could mean something else because I don't speak slang so from my understanding "bunned her" means got her pregnant or something. Also everyone generalizes at one point or another and sometimes generalizations turn out to be true.

1) So we're back again at 'the only thing stopping blacks is themselves', or racism is the fault of people of colour. I shouldn't have to explain to you why that's wrong.
2) It is the case that outcomes for children from two-parent homes are on the whole better than outcomes for those children from single-parent homes. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the reason those outcomes are better is because there are two parents in the home. For example, single-parent homes are more common amongst people of colour and poorer people (i.e. people who have less opportunities/people whose children will generally have worse outcomes anyway) than amongst white people and rich people (i.e. people who have more opportunities/people whose children will generally have better outcomes anyway.) This kind of moralising about single parents is often used as a front to denigrate people from that former group.
3) Saying 'most of x group do y' is as much of a generalisation as saying 'all of x group do y' when there is no evidence showing that 'most of x group do y'. Accept that you made a racist generalisation and try to learn from that mistake. I'm really not trying to twist what you're saying; you're literally saying all of these things. That bizarre piece of anecdotal evidence also does not support your view, it just indicates that from a very narrow personal experience you have extrapolated that 'most black males see having kids as a burden or some kind of "right of passage"', which is, again, a) flatly untrue b) a gross generalisation c) racist.

Just a heads up that those links aren't working, the end of the url has been cut off?


Maybe it's because I'm tired but I don't understand what you mean by this.

I mean exactly what I'm saying. A person in a Puerto Rican community or a black community is not going to mingle much with people outside of that community.

And I'm saying where is the evidence for that? Of course it's true that people generally live in areas with high concentrations of their own ethnicity, but it doesn't follow that people from different ethnicities don't 'mingle' much with people from other ethnicities; that's an assumption.

[Northland Republic]

1. Just pointing out that there are no current laws on the books that active stop blacks or other minorities from doing anything.

2. The point I'm making is that two parent homes create better situations for everyone.

3. I'm not generalizing as I said most black people I'm not saying all black people. You're just twisting what I said as I know that not all black people think that way also I live in an inner city and I listen to other black people talk and that's how they talk, now I could be mishearing them but I have heard among a group of black people asking if he "buned her" though it could mean something else because I don't speak slang so from my understanding "bunned her" means got her pregnant or something. Also everyone generalizes at one point or another and sometimes generalizations turn out to be true.

1) So we're back again at 'the only thing stopping blacks is themselves', or racism is the fault of people of colour. I shouldn't have to explain to you why that's wrong.
2) It is the case that outcomes for children from two-parent homes are on the whole better than outcomes for those children from single-parent homes. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the reason those outcomes are better is because there are two parents in the home. For example, single-parent homes are more common amongst people of colour and poorer people (i.e. people who have less opportunities/people whose children will generally have worse outcomes anyway) than amongst white people and rich people (i.e. people who have more opportunities/people whose children will generally have better outcomes anyway.) This kind of moralising about single parents is often used as a front to denigrate people from that former group.
3) Saying 'most of x group do y' is as much of a generalisation as saying 'all of x group do y' when there is no evidence showing that 'most of x group do y'. Accept that you made a racist generalisation and try to learn from that mistake. I'm really not trying to twist what you're saying; you're literally saying all of these things. That bizarre piece of anecdotal evidence also does not support your view, it just indicates that from a very narrow personal experience you have extrapolated that 'most black males see having kids as a burden or some kind of "right of passage"', which is, again, a) flatly untrue b) a gross generalisation c) racist.

1. Racism is an idea it doesn't actively stop anyone from achiving their goals, so yes the only thing stopping black people from moving up in society is themselves.

2. There is evidence that shows that when there is a positive male role model in black households young black males are better off than if their isn't a positive male role in the home. http://facstaff.elon.edu/ajones5/Anika's%20paper.htm

3. We're not going to agree on this point here, but it links back to young black males not having a positive male role model in their home so they in effect learn that they don't have to be in their child's life when/if they have one.

[San Lumen]

1) So we're back again at 'the only thing stopping blacks is themselves', or racism is the fault of people of colour. I shouldn't have to explain to you why that's wrong.
2) It is the case that outcomes for children from two-parent homes are on the whole better than outcomes for those children from single-parent homes. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the reason those outcomes are better is because there are two parents in the home. For example, single-parent homes are more common amongst people of colour and poorer people (i.e. people who have less opportunities/people whose children will generally have worse outcomes anyway) than amongst white people and rich people (i.e. people who have more opportunities/people whose children will generally have better outcomes anyway.) This kind of moralising about single parents is often used as a front to denigrate people from that former group.
3) Saying 'most of x group do y' is as much of a generalisation as saying 'all of x group do y' when there is no evidence showing that 'most of x group do y'. Accept that you made a racist generalisation and try to learn from that mistake. I'm really not trying to twist what you're saying; you're literally saying all of these things. That bizarre piece of anecdotal evidence also does not support your view, it just indicates that from a very narrow personal experience you have extrapolated that 'most black males see having kids as a burden or some kind of "right of passage"', which is, again, a) flatly untrue b) a gross generalisation c) racist.

1. Racism is an idea it doesn't actively stop anyone from achiving their goals, so yes the only thing stopping black people from moving up in society is themselves.

2. There is evidence that shows that when there is a positive male role model in black households young black males are better off than if their isn't a positive male role in the home. http://facstaff.elon.edu/ajones5/Anika's%20paper.htm

3. We're not going to agree on this point here, but it links back to young black males not having a positive male role model in their home so they in effect learn that they don't have to be in their child's life when/if they have one.

On your first point racism absolutely does stop people from achieving their goals. The area where Levittown is the birthplace of suburbia remains one of the most segregated places in the country. There is still much racial tension there and many hold prejudiced attitudes about non whites to this day.

[Holy Tedalonia]

1. Racism is an idea it doesn't actively stop anyone from achiving their goals, so yes the only thing stopping black people from moving up in society is themselves.

2. There is evidence that shows that when there is a positive male role model in black households young black males are better off than if their isn't a positive male role in the home. http://facstaff.elon.edu/ajones5/Anika's%20paper.htm

3. We're not going to agree on this point here, but it links back to young black males not having a positive male role model in their home so they in effect learn that they don't have to be in their child's life when/if they have one.

On your first point racism absolutely does stop people from achieving their goals. The area where Levittown is the birthplace of suburbia remains one of the most segregated places in the country. There is still much racial tension there and many hold prejudiced attitudes about non whites to this day.

Racism doesn't really stop people from achieving their goals, it's the ideas under racism that does it, and racial tensions that directly stop achieving their goals. Not the idea itself. Also there's racial tension and many prejudiced attitudes about whites also to this day, albeit smaller scale and mainly in South Africa rather than most places.

[San Lumen]

On your first point racism absolutely does stop people from achieving their goals. The area where Levittown is the birthplace of suburbia remains one of the most segregated places in the country. There is still much racial tension there and many hold prejudiced attitudes about non whites to this day.

Racism doesn't really stop people from achieving their goals, it's the ideas under racism that does it, and racial tensions that directly stop achieving their goals. Not the idea itself. Also there's racial tension and many prejudiced attitudes about whites also to this day, albeit smaller scale and mainly in South Africa rather than most places.

How does racism not hold someone back?

[Holy Tedalonia]

Racism doesn't really stop people from achieving their goals, it's the ideas under racism that does it, and racial tensions that directly stop achieving their goals. Not the idea itself. Also there's racial tension and many prejudiced attitudes about whites also to this day, albeit smaller scale and mainly in South Africa rather than most places.

How does racism not hold someone back?

Racism is simply a idea that one race is superior to another. Nothing more, nothing less. The following ideas like racial segregation, racial conflict, and even genocide are all not part of racism, but rather chained to it.

For example theoretically Jimmy could be racist, but not genocidal.

[San Lumen]

How does racism not hold someone back?

Racism is simply a idea that one race is superior to another. Nothing more, nothing less. The following ideas like racial segregation, racial conflict, and even genocide are all not part of racism, but rather chained to it.

For example theoretically Jimmy could be racist, but not genocidal.

and Jimmy could be a racist developer and declare non whites will not reside in this neighborhood and have that policy in place for years. When laws are passed to abolish that effect is still there and prejudiced attitudes and barriers remain to someone non white moving in. For example the notion that black family moves in your property values drop.

White flight also had a lot to do with racism as well.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Racism is simply a idea that one race is superior to another. Nothing more, nothing less. The following ideas like racial segregation, racial conflict, and even genocide are all not part of racism, but rather chained to it.

For example theoretically Jimmy could be racist, but not genocidal.

and Jimmy could be a racist developer and declare non whites will not reside in this neighborhood and have that policy in place for years. When laws are passed to abolish that effect is still there and prejudiced attitudes and barriers remain to someone non white moving in. For example the notion that black family moves in your property values drop.

White flight also had a lot to do with racism as well.

That underlines with racial segregation. Jimmy could resent other races thinking his race is superior, without doing any of that.

Jimmy could be a racist who believes in not "mixing" with other groups socially. Which is why to this day some parents refuse to have their kids marry other races.

I had a great grandmother who was a stern racist who believed blacks folk were good-for-nothing troublemakers who demanded welfare (she was a welfare clerk). She didn't support segregation, and probably would've lost her job if she raised a fuss. But the underlying prejudice and not mixing with black folk were present. I would dub her as a "silent racist" one who doesn't actively oppose or retaliate, but resents within their own heart said race.

[San Lumen]

and Jimmy could be a racist developer and declare non whites will not reside in this neighborhood and have that policy in place for years. When laws are passed to abolish that effect is still there and prejudiced attitudes and barriers remain to someone non white moving in. For example the notion that black family moves in your property values drop.

White flight also had a lot to do with racism as well.

That underlines with racial segregation. Jimmy could resent other races thinking his race is superior, without doing any of that.

Jimmy could be a racist who believes in not "mixing" with other groups socially. Which is why to this day some parents refuse to have their kids marry other races.

I had a great grandmother who was a stern racist who believed blacks folk were good-for-nothing troublemakers who demanded welfare (she was a welfare clerk). She didn't support segregation, and probably would've lost her job if she raised a fuss. But the underlying prejudice and not mixing with black folk were present. I would dub her as a "silent racist" one who doesn't actively oppose or retaliate, but resents within their own heart said race.

You can believe whatever you want but when you vote for racist people or implement policies that are inherently racist that is anther matter entirely.

[Holy Tedalonia]

That underlines with racial segregation. Jimmy could resent other races thinking his race is superior, without doing any of that.

Jimmy could be a racist who believes in not "mixing" with other groups socially. Which is why to this day some parents refuse to have their kids marry other races.

I had a great grandmother who was a stern racist who believed blacks folk were good-for-nothing troublemakers who demanded welfare (she was a welfare clerk). She didn't support segregation, and probably would've lost her job if she raised a fuss. But the underlying prejudice and not mixing with black folk were present. I would dub her as a "silent racist" one who doesn't actively oppose or retaliate, but resents within their own heart said race.

You can believe whatever you want but when you vote for racist people or implement policies that are inherently racist that is anther matter entirely.

15th amendment says otherwise.

[San Lumen]

You can believe whatever you want but when you vote for racist people or implement policies that are inherently racist that is anther matter entirely.

15th amendment says otherwise.

So? Didn't stop things like literacy tests, poll taxes, and redlining for starters.

[Holy Tedalonia]

15th amendment says otherwise.

So? Didn't stop things like literacy tests, poll taxes, and redlining for starters.

I'm saying people can vote for whoever they want. I'm just happy that racism isn't as popular nowadays.

Voting for racist people and implement policies is merely just stupid voters holding on to old prejudices or they simply overlook those facts. Votes that have reasons you don't like is merely a part of democracy.

[San Lumen]

So? Didn't stop things like literacy tests, poll taxes, and redlining for starters.

I'm saying people can vote for whoever they want. I'm just happy that racism isn't as popular nowadays.

Voting for racist people and implement policies is merely just stupid voters holding on to old prejudices or they simply overlook those facts. Votes that have reasons you don't like is merely a part of democracy.

I understand that but those racist policies even though repealed are still felt today. redlining is one of them

[Holy Tedalonia]

I'm saying people can vote for whoever they want. I'm just happy that racism isn't as popular nowadays.

Voting for racist people and implement policies is merely just stupid voters holding on to old prejudices or they simply overlook those facts. Votes that have reasons you don't like is merely a part of democracy.

I understand that but those racist policies even though repealed are still felt today. redlining is one of them

Understandable, but like pagan religions I believe they'll disappear in due time.

[San Lumen]

I understand that but those racist policies even though repealed are still felt today. redlining is one of them

Understandable, but like pagan religions I believe they'll disappear in due time.

Its been many years since redlining ended yet its effects are not showing any signs of waning.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Understandable, but like pagan religions I believe they'll disappear in due time.

Its been many years since redlining ended yet its effects are not showing any signs of waning.

I'm predicting about the second half of the 2000s before it fully disappears. Atleast past 2050, change is slow.

[San Lumen]

Its been many years since redlining ended yet its effects are not showing any signs of waning.

I'm predicting about the second half of the 2000s before it fully disappears. Atleast past 2050, change is slow.

Thats still a very long time

[Holy Tedalonia]

I'm predicting about the second half of the 2000s before it fully disappears. Atleast past 2050, change is slow.

Thats still a very long time

Pretty fast if you account all of human history. Slavery's longevity lasted longer than when racism became a prominent racial barrier.

[The Tomerlands]

Economy will not improve it will become just as awful as other middle eastern states since middle easterners will be your majority. Again you stupid white british people seem to not realize ONLY WHITE PEOPLE WANT DIVERSITY, in an earlier thread I mentioned how our black americans get territorial once they dominate a space leading to white american running to the suburbs out of fear. This is what is gonna happen to you only you wont have nowhere to run once the muslims outnumber you. Oh and you better run fool.

White americans did not run to the suburbs, they were pushed there by decades old racist policy. we have had this discussion. also, none of your sources seem to agree with what you are saying. and no, i will not run. I am not afraid. I am not worried about any group being a majority and I simply never will be.

also going to need a source, because at the moment in the UK, immigrants are doing damn good for the economy.

"White Americans did not run to the suburbs because they wanted to. It was because of racist policies."

Yeah. Racist polices against white people in the 1920s and 30s.

Please be a troll.

[The Tomerlands]

How does racism not hold someone back?

Racism is simply a idea that one race is superior to another. Nothing more, nothing less. The following ideas like racial segregation, racial conflict, and even genocide are all not part of racism, but rather chained to it.

For example theoretically Jimmy could be racist, but not genocidal.

But it could lead to genocial or racist laws being made by Jimmy.

[Holy Tedalonia]

White americans did not run to the suburbs, they were pushed there by decades old racist policy. we have had this discussion. also, none of your sources seem to agree with what you are saying. and no, i will not run. I am not afraid. I am not worried about any group being a majority and I simply never will be.

also going to need a source, because at the moment in the UK, immigrants are doing damn good for the economy.

"White Americans did not run to the suburbs because they wanted to. It was because of racist policies."

Yeah. Racist polices against white people in the 1920s and 30s.

Please be a troll.

Eh, personally I believe suburbs became a thing due to the demand of comfort. I hate cities, their overcrowded and noisy. I don't know who'd want to live a city, but the suburbs make a good distance from civilization and the countryside.

[San Lumen]

Racism is simply a idea that one race is superior to another. Nothing more, nothing less. The following ideas like racial segregation, racial conflict, and even genocide are all not part of racism, but rather chained to it.

For example theoretically Jimmy could be racist, but not genocidal.

But it could lead to genocial or racist laws being made by Jimmy.

and that is precisely what Levittown and therefore suburbs was founded upon. The concept of redlining being one of them

[San Lumen]

"White Americans did not run to the suburbs because they wanted to. It was because of racist policies."

Yeah. Racist polices against white people in the 1920s and 30s.

Please be a troll.

Eh, personally I believe suburbs became a thing due to the demand of comfort. I hate cities, their overcrowded and noisy. I don't know who'd want to live a city, but the suburbs make a good distance from civilization and the countryside.

Except history disagrees with that notion. It was a from of segregation.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Racism is simply a idea that one race is superior to another. Nothing more, nothing less. The following ideas like racial segregation, racial conflict, and even genocide are all not part of racism, but rather chained to it.

For example theoretically Jimmy could be racist, but not genocidal.

But it could lead to genocial or racist laws being made by Jimmy.

True, and that why it's desirable to remove it. It is dangerous not in itself, but what it could lead to.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Eh, personally I believe suburbs became a thing due to the demand of comfort. I hate cities, their overcrowded and noisy. I don't know who'd want to live a city, but the suburbs make a good distance from civilization and the countryside.

Except history disagrees with that notion. It was a from of segregation.

Not really, If racism didn't need exist the suburbs would've been created still, albeit slower.