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Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
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Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:14 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
So they're whipped for being homosexual.

False.

Being whipped for homosexual sex is the same thing as being whipped for being a homosexual.
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Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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Saiwania
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Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Wed May 02, 2018 2:18 pm

Valgora wrote:They are coming to official US border crossings to apply for asylum.


They need to write an essay about why they think they can "make it" in the US but couldn't for whatever reason, in their home country?
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:20 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Valgora wrote:They are coming to official US border crossings to apply for asylum.


They need to write an essay about why they think they can "make it" in the US but couldn't for whatever reason, in their home country?

Because they're fleeing violence.
That's why people apply for asylum.

And if they want to come to America to live the "American Dream" (which is dead, but that's my opinion), why shouldn't they?
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The Reverend Tim
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Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed May 02, 2018 2:21 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Valgora wrote:They are coming to official US border crossings to apply for asylum.


They need to write an essay about why they think they can "make it" in the US but couldn't for whatever reason, in their home country?


So easy for you to say when your not from Honduras or El Salvador. Since you have such a anti immigrant stance I have a question for you. Should someone whose not white be able to serve in public service job such a police officer or firefighter or in the government? FYI One must be a citizen to work for the fire/police department t.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Wed May 02, 2018 2:23 pm

Valgora wrote:And if they want to come to America to live the "American Dream" (which is dead, but that's my opinion), why shouldn't they?


Because more likely than not, all they're ever going to amount to is picking strawberries or whatever for at or below minimum wage. We don't need more people like that.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Post War America
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Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Wed May 02, 2018 2:23 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Valgora wrote:They are coming to official US border crossings to apply for asylum.


They need to write an essay about why they think they can "make it" in the US but couldn't for whatever reason, in their home country?


Because they'd be killed by the maras. Usually poor people from poor countries don't leave their homes unless they're under imminent danger.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
For those who care
A PMT Social Democratic Genepunk/Post Cyberpunk Nation the practices big (atomic) stick diplomacy
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Social Libertarian: -6.00
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 02, 2018 2:23 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Valgora wrote:And if they want to come to America to live the "American Dream" (which is dead, but that's my opinion), why shouldn't they?


Because more likely than not, all they're ever going to amount to is picking strawberries or whatever for at or below minimum wage. We don't need more people like that.


Those are actually the people we do need, as much as it must hurt you to acknowledge that.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
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Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:24 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Valgora wrote:And if they want to come to America to live the "American Dream" (which is dead, but that's my opinion), why shouldn't they?


Because more likely than not, all they're ever going to amount to is picking strawberries or whatever for at or below minimum wage. We don't need more people like that.

They ain't going to be doing it for minimum wage.
That would only happen if the gov't didn't know they were being hired.

And we kinda do need people to do that if Americans ain't going to.
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The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
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Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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Saiwania
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Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Wed May 02, 2018 2:26 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Those are actually the people we do need, as much as it must hurt you to acknowledge that.


Can't we at least get our prison labor to do that instead? I'd think that a lot of it is fully mechanized at this point anyways. We shouldn't aspire for our economy to consist of just service sector jobs.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed May 02, 2018 2:26 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Those are actually the people we do need, as much as it must hurt you to acknowledge that.


Can't we at least get our prison labor to do that instead? I'd think that a lot of it is fully mechanized at this point anyways. We shouldn't aspire for our economy to consist of just service sector jobs.


Crop picking isn't fully mechanized and what of my question to you?
Last edited by San Lumen on Wed May 02, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 53355
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 02, 2018 2:27 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Those are actually the people we do need, as much as it must hurt you to acknowledge that.


Can't we at least get our prison labor to do that instead? I'd think that a lot of it is fully mechanized at this point anyways. We shouldn't aspire for our economy to consist of just service sector jobs.


Prison labor should be banned and the 13th Amendment changed to remove the punishment clause.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:27 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Those are actually the people we do need, as much as it must hurt you to acknowledge that.


Can't we at least get our prison labor to do that instead? I'd think that a lot of it is fully mechanized at this point anyways. We shouldn't aspire for our economy to consist of just service sector jobs.

And that ain't the fault of immigrants.
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Multi-species.
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DISREGARD NS STATS
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The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Wed May 02, 2018 2:28 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:They won't.

Jesus Christ
It's like talking to a partisan hack.

You claiming that an Islamic theocracy ain't going to do that, is comparable to me saying that the Soviet Union wouldn't oppress people.

Depends on which one you're talking about.

Again, depends.

Yeah, that's haram.

I'm pretty certain most past Islamic theocracies oppressed other religions.
That's what happens in a theocracy anyways.

And if it they were willing to do something that's against Islamic law, then they clearly wouldn't have a problem with breaking Islamic law in other ways.

I'm talking about Islamic rule according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not based on people.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Petrasylvania
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Founded: Oct 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrasylvania » Wed May 02, 2018 2:28 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Those are actually the people we do need, as much as it must hurt you to acknowledge that.


Can't we at least get our prison labor to do that instead? I'd think that a lot of it is fully mechanized at this point anyways. We shouldn't aspire for our economy to consist of just service sector jobs.

Hey, even more incentive to keep the school-to-prison pipeline flowing or even make it bigger!
Crimes committed by Muslims will be proof of a pan-Islamic plot and Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand, crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of mentally ill lone wolves who do not represent their professed belief system at all.
The probability of someone secretly participating in homosexual acts is directly proportional to the frequency and loudness of their publicly professed disapproval and/or disgust for homosexuality.
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Kubumba Tribe
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Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Wed May 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:False.


No it's not, and claiming otherwise is a meaningless semantics game because you aren't brave enough to admit you want people whipped a hundred times for being gay. At least own up to the bullshit you believe.

I don't believe in bs.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ah, so Zoroastrianism and all those polytheistic faiths in areas that Muslims conquered are still going strong?

I never said that.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Valgora
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Posts: 6632
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Valgora wrote:Jesus Christ
It's like talking to a partisan hack.

You claiming that an Islamic theocracy ain't going to do that, is comparable to me saying that the Soviet Union wouldn't oppress people.


I'm pretty certain most past Islamic theocracies oppressed other religions.
That's what happens in a theocracy anyways.

And if it they were willing to do something that's against Islamic law, then they clearly wouldn't have a problem with breaking Islamic law in other ways.

I'm talking about Islamic rule according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not based on people.

Who wrote the Qur'an and made the Sunnah?
Men (as in humans)

Who will run the gov't according to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
People
Libertarian Syndicalist
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The Reverend Tim
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Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69786
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Wed May 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
No it's not, and claiming otherwise is a meaningless semantics game because you aren't brave enough to admit you want people whipped a hundred times for being gay. At least own up to the bullshit you believe.

I don't believe in bs.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ah, so Zoroastrianism and all those polytheistic faiths in areas that Muslims conquered are still going strong?

I never said that.

Highly debatable.
Anarcho-Communist, Democratic Confederalist
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Wed May 02, 2018 2:31 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:I'm talking about Islamic rule according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not based on people.

Who wrote the Qur'an and made the Sunnah?
Men (as in humans)

Who will run the gov't according to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
People

Duh.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Valgora
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Posts: 6632
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:33 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Valgora wrote:Who wrote the Qur'an and made the Sunnah?
Men (as in humans)

Who will run the gov't according to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
People

Duh.

You see my point against your argument of "Islamic rule according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not based on people"?
It will be based on people anyways.
Libertarian Syndicalist
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MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
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The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Wed May 02, 2018 2:35 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:Duh.

You see my point against your argument of "Islamic rule according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not based on people"?
It will be based on people anyways.

No, I don't get what you're trying to say. A Muslim doing something that goes against Al-Islam is sinning or doing wrong. Just like how someone who breaks the law is doing something wrong.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6632
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:38 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Valgora wrote:You see my point against your argument of "Islamic rule according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not based on people"?
It will be based on people anyways.

No, I don't get what you're trying to say. A Muslim doing something that goes against Al-Islam is sinning or doing wrong. Just like how someone who breaks the law is doing something wrong.

You act like people will follow all the religious rules, especially when they can gain more power from breaking those rules.
The people in charge of the theocracy are going to know what they can get away with, and how to get away with rule breaking.

And breaking the law ain't doing something wrong in of itself.
Being gay when the law says you can't doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong - for the law is unjust.
Smoking weed when it is illegal ain't doing something wrong - for the law is unjust.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53355
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 02, 2018 2:38 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:No, I don't get what you're trying to say. A Muslim doing something that goes against Al-Islam is sinning or doing wrong. Just like how someone who breaks the law is doing something wrong.

You act like people will follow all the religious rules, especially when they can gain more power from breaking those rules.
The people in charge of the theocracy are going to know what they can get away with, and how to get away with rule breaking.

And breaking the law ain't doing something wrong in of itself.
Being gay when the law says you can't doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong - for the law is unjust.
Smoking weed when it is illegal ain't doing something wrong - for the law is unjust.


Not to mention people have differing opinions of what the rules are.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Saiwania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Wed May 02, 2018 2:38 pm

San Lumen wrote:Crop picking isn't fully mechanized and what of my question to you?


I've answered that a long while ago, when it was about doctors. Yes, they should be allowed if they're eligible and manage to get accepted. I'm racist but I'm still a bit more sensible about it. I know what forms of Apartheid are feasible and which aren't for the most part.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed May 02, 2018 2:40 pm

Saiwania wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Crop picking isn't fully mechanized and what of my question to you?


I've answered that a long while ago, when it was about doctors. Yes, they should be allowed if they're eligible and manage to get accepted. I'm racist but I'm still a bit more sensible about it. I know what forms of Apartheid are feasible and which aren't for the most part.


What do you mean by racist but sensible?

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6632
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Wed May 02, 2018 2:40 pm

Saiwania wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Crop picking isn't fully mechanized and what of my question to you?


I've answered that a long while ago, when it was about doctors. Yes, they should be allowed if they're eligible and manage to get accepted. I'm racist but I'm still a bit more sensible about it. I know what forms of Apartheid are feasible and which aren't for the most part.

"I'm racist and still a bit more sensible about it"
- Some anti-gun, white nationalist, Hillary vote on the internet
:rofl:
Yea, I'm sure you're sensible.
Last edited by Valgora on Wed May 02, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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