Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[San Lumen]

Why isn't it better to stay closeted? In a military situation, you want your comrades to think of you as the same as them, not that you're different in some way. The whole point of a lot of the training is to build bonds between units. Stuff like being gay or bi or whatever is controversial and could sow discord between soldiers that could be easily avoided.

Anyone who assumes that someone openly gay will hit on them or even rape them during combat is likely to be in denial about their own sexuality and I question why they joined the military.

Sorry what is the relevance here?

[Torrocca]

... Why tf are people debating homosexuality in a thread about diversity and multiculturalism?

[Petrasylvania]

Anyone who assumes that someone openly gay will hit on them or even rape them during combat is likely to be in denial about their own sexuality and I question why they joined the military.

Sorry what is the relevance here?

Because those are the two most common assumptions of people triggered by open LGBTs serving in the military?

[Valgora]

... Why tf are people debating homosexuality in a thread about diversity and multiculturalism?

Because homosexuality is arguably relevant to discussions about diversity.

[Northland Republic]

They wouldn't be "in the closet" as they would know and accept their sexuality just because you don't go around telling people your sexuality doesn't mean you're "in the closet" as long as a person accepts who they are they don't have to justify it to anyone

Yes, they would be in the closet because they have to hide their sexuality.
Being open about being gay doesn't mean someone is going around telling people about their sexuality, being open means you don't fuckin' hide it.
DADT forced soldiers to hide their sexuality - they couldn't talk about relationships or anything, because then they could get into trouble.

They wouldn't be in the closet because they could always talk to their family or friends outside of the military also DADT also made so other soldiers couldn't "out" them or they would be discharged as well.

[Petrasylvania]

I miss Facepalm Smiley real bad now.

[Torrocca]

... Why tf are people debating homosexuality in a thread about diversity and multiculturalism?

Because homosexuality is arguably relevant to discussions about diversity.

May Day with Rainbows. *nod*

[Valgora]

Yes, they would be in the closet because they have to hide their sexuality.
Being open about being gay doesn't mean someone is going around telling people about their sexuality, being open means you don't fuckin' hide it.
DADT forced soldiers to hide their sexuality - they couldn't talk about relationships or anything, because then they could get into trouble.

They wouldn't be in the closet because they could always talk to their family or friends outside of the military also DADT also made so other soldiers couldn't "out" them or they would be discharged as well.

Yes they would be in the closet.
Because DADT fuckin' barred you from joining the military if you were openly homosexual. So yes, you would have to hide it.
And DADT "specified that superiors should not initiate investigation of a service member's orientation without witnessing disallowed behaviors, though credible evidence of homosexual behavior could be used to initiate an investigation."
It allowed service members to be investigated for homosexuality. And I don't see shit about being discharged for outing gay service members - they would most likely have a less severe punishment, probably also less severe than demotion.

[Northland Republic]

They wouldn't be in the closet because they could always talk to their family or friends outside of the military also DADT also made so other soldiers couldn't "out" them or they would be discharged as well.

Yes they would be in the closet.
Because DADT fuckin' barred you from joining the military if you were openly homosexual. So yes, you would have to hide it.
And DADT "specified that superiors should not initiate investigation of a service member's orientation without witnessing disallowed behaviors, though credible evidence of homosexual behavior could be used to initiate an investigation."
It allowed service members to be investigated for homosexuality. And I don't see shit about being discharged for outing gay service members - they would most likely have a less severe punishment, probably also less severe than demotion.

And again I don't see why they would want to tell people about their personal life anyways so I don't see the problem

E1.2.8. Provisions Related to Homosexual Conduct
E1.2.8.1. A person's sexual orientation is considered a personal and private matter, and is not a bar to service entry or continued service unless manifested by homosexual conduct in the manner described in subparagraph

E1.2.8.2., below. Applicants for enlistment, appointment, or induction shall not be asked or required to reveal whether they are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. Applicants also will not be asked or required to reveal whether they have engaged in homosexual conduct, unless independent evidence is received indicating that an applicant engaged in such conduct or unless the applicant volunteers a statement that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect.

E1.2.8.2. Homosexual conduct is grounds for barring entry into the Armed Forces, except as otherwise provided in this section. Homosexual conduct is a homosexual act, a statement by the applicant that demonstrates a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts, or a homosexual marriage or attempted marriage. Propensity to engage in homosexual acts means more than an abstract preference or desire to engage in homosexual acts; it indicates a likelihood that a person engages in or will engage in homosexual acts.

[Valgora]

Yes they would be in the closet.
Because DADT fuckin' barred you from joining the military if you were openly homosexual. So yes, you would have to hide it.
And DADT "specified that superiors should not initiate investigation of a service member's orientation without witnessing disallowed behaviors, though credible evidence of homosexual behavior could be used to initiate an investigation."
It allowed service members to be investigated for homosexuality. And I don't see shit about being discharged for outing gay service members - they would most likely have a less severe punishment, probably also less severe than demotion.

And again I don't see why they would want to tell people about their personal life anyways

Probably because when you talk to people and become friends with people, you start talking about your personal life.

[Northland Republic]

And again I don't see why they would want to tell people about their personal life anyways

Probably because when you talk to people and become friends with people, you start talking about your personal life.

There were many who have revealed their sexuality to others during combat and haven't been discharged the whole thing shouldn't have been enacted or enforced in the first place as the military should be looking for people who are willing to stand by others in a firefight and if they can handle a gun

[Valgora]

Probably because when you talk to people and become friends with people, you start talking about your personal life.

There were many who have revealed their sexuality to others during combat and haven't been discharged the whole thing shouldn't have been enacted or enforced in the first place as the military should be looking for people who are willing to stand by others in a firefight and if they can handle a gun

1. Probably because the person they told was a friend and a good friend ain't going to rat you out to a superior. However, there were still 13,000 discharges under DADT.

2. So you're glad that DADT doesn't exist anymore?

[San Lumen]

There were many who have revealed their sexuality to others during combat and haven't been discharged the whole thing shouldn't have been enacted or enforced in the first place as the military should be looking for people who are willing to stand by others in a firefight and if they can handle a gun

1. Probably because the person they told was a friend and a good friend ain't going to rat you out to a superior. However, there were still 13,000 discharges under DADT.

2. So you're glad that DADT doesn't exist anymore?

I really dont see how this is relevant to the thread.

[Valgora]

1. Probably because the person they told was a friend and a good friend ain't going to rat you out to a superior. However, there were still 13,000 discharges under DADT.

2. So you're glad that DADT doesn't exist anymore?

I really dont see how this is relevant to the thread.

It's about diversity.
Is diversity only about race/immigration to you?

[San Lumen]

I really dont see how this is relevant to the thread.

It's about diversity.
Is diversity only about race/immigration to you?

No its not

[Valgora]

It's about diversity.
Is diversity only about race/immigration to you?

No its not

No as in sexuality ain't part of diversity; no as in diversity ain't just about race/immigration?

[Northland Republic]

There were many who have revealed their sexuality to others during combat and haven't been discharged the whole thing shouldn't have been enacted or enforced in the first place as the military should be looking for people who are willing to stand by others in a firefight and if they can handle a gun

1. Probably because the person they told was a friend and a good friend ain't going to rat you out to a superior. However, there were still 13,000 discharges under DADT.

2. So you're glad that DADT doesn't exist anymore?

I didn't like because it was an executive order and EO's aren't laws and should never be considered laws. Also most of the 13,000 discharges weren't all gay people as there were some people that took advantage of DADT to get out of the military because it wasn't what they though it was.

[Valgora]

1. Probably because the person they told was a friend and a good friend ain't going to rat you out to a superior. However, there were still 13,000 discharges under DADT.

2. So you're glad that DADT doesn't exist anymore?

I didn't like because it was an executive order and EO's aren't laws and should never be considered laws. Also most of the 13,000 discharges weren't all gay people as there were some people that took advantage of DADT to get out of the military because it wasn't what they though it was.

You got some proof that most of the 13,000 discharges were so someone could get out of the military?

[San Lumen]

No its not

No as in sexuality ain't part of diversity; no as in diversity ain't just about race/immigration?

Sexuality is part of diversity in a way and diversity is not just about race.

[Gharrow]

Why isn't it better to stay closeted? In a military situation, you want your comrades to think of you as the same as them, not that you're different in some way. The whole point of a lot of the training is to build bonds between units. Stuff like being gay or bi or whatever is controversial and could sow discord between soldiers that could be easily avoided.

Anyone who assumes that someone openly gay will hit on them or even rape them during combat is likely to be in denial about their own sexuality and I question why they joined the military.

Probably the same reason anybody else would. I don't think it's because of the threat of rape or whatever, either. A lot of people just aren't entirely comfortable with people being bi or whatever they think themselves to be.

[Northland Republic]

I didn't like because it was an executive order and EO's aren't laws and should never be considered laws. Also most of the 13,000 discharges weren't all gay people as there were some people that took advantage of DADT to get out of the military because it wasn't what they though it was.

You got some proof that most of the 13,000 discharges were so someone could get out of the military?

First I didn't say 13,000 discharges were so someone could get out of the military I said that some people used it to get out of the military so they would also be included in the 13,000 discharges number as well so I would have to look at the 13,000 people who were discharged because of DADT and determine if they were really homosexual or if they were just saying that to get out of military service

[Valgora]

You got some proof that most of the 13,000 discharges were so someone could get out of the military?

First I didn't say 13,000 discharges were so someone could get out of the military I said that some people used it to get out of the military so they would also be included in the 13,000 discharges number as well so I would have to look at the 13,000 people who were discharged because of DADT and determine if they were really homosexual or if they were just saying that to get out of military service

I didn't say you said 13,000 were so someone could get out of the military I was talking about this:
"Also most of the 13,000 discharges weren't all gay people as there were some people that took advantage of DADT to get out of the military"
You said most were so someone could get out of the military.

[Northland Republic]

First I didn't say 13,000 discharges were so someone could get out of the military I said that some people used it to get out of the military so they would also be included in the 13,000 discharges number as well so I would have to look at the 13,000 people who were discharged because of DADT and determine if they were really homosexual or if they were just saying that to get out of military service

I didn't say you said 13,000 were so someone could get out of the military I was talking about this:
"Also most of the 13,000 discharges weren't all gay people as there were some people that took advantage of DADT to get out of the military"
You said most were so someone could get out of the military.

I can't give you proof but it did happen as I said I would have to look into all 13,000 discharges because of DADT and then I'd be able to tell you how many were gay

[Post War America]

Yes, they would be in the closet because they have to hide their sexuality.
Being open about being gay doesn't mean someone is going around telling people about their sexuality, being open means you don't fuckin' hide it.
DADT forced soldiers to hide their sexuality - they couldn't talk about relationships or anything, because then they could get into trouble.

They wouldn't be in the closet because they could always talk to their family or friends outside of the military also DADT also made so other soldiers couldn't "out" them or they would be discharged as well.

That's still insanely fucking stupid. One's sexual orientation has basically fuck all to do with their effectiveness in the field, ergo it's no business of the military to boot out otherwise good soldiers on account of it.

[Northland Republic]

They wouldn't be in the closet because they could always talk to their family or friends outside of the military also DADT also made so other soldiers couldn't "out" them or they would be discharged as well.

That's still insanely fucking stupid. One's sexual orientation has basically fuck all to do with their effectiveness in the field, ergo it's no business of the military to boot out otherwise good soldiers on account of it.

Which is why I agree that DADT was a shit policy to begin with but I can see the idea behind it though as to why it was put into place