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Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81230
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:38 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kramanica wrote:Because our country is usually better than most others.

And we aren't all immigrants. If you were born here you aren't an immigrant.

You're first generation, second generation, and so on. Go back as far as you need, you are descended from immigrants.

Also, no. America isn't close to being as good as most of the developed world with quite a few issues. Anti-vaxxers, homophobia, xenophobia, public education, healthcare... Need I go on?

Things are changing though. For every act of hate there is someone who speaks out against it.

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:38 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:Still has racism, huge wealth gaps, I think you would need to go on.

I don't really want to go on. America is flawed, but a nice enough place nonetheless.

Yeah, the people are great, the government....yeah.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:39 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Geneviev wrote:You're first generation, second generation, and so on. Go back as far as you need, you are descended from immigrants.

Also, no. America isn't close to being as good as most of the developed world with quite a few issues. Anti-vaxxers, homophobia, xenophobia, public education, healthcare... Need I go on?

Things are changing though. For every act of hate there is someone who speaks out against it.

Birther movement, now the alt-right? People who speak out against it are accused of being snowflakes or the radical left, or simply called fake news or haters and losers.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Kramanica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5369
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kramanica » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:39 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kramanica wrote:Because our country is usually better than most others.

And we aren't all immigrants. If you were born here you aren't an immigrant.

You're first generation, second generation, and so on. Go back as far as you need, you are descended from immigrants.

Also, no. America isn't close to being as good as most of the developed world with quite a few issues. Anti-vaxxers, homophobia, xenophobia, public education, healthcare... Need I go on?

"Descended" does not mean you're an immigrant yourself so you're just patently incorrect there.

And we're pretty much objectively better than most of the countries people come here from. Haiti, Mexico, Liberia, Guatemala, et cetera. Sorry, but we are pretty much better than those countries by every possible metric.

Also
>he thinks other first world countries don't have xenophobia and anti-vaxxers

I chuckled.
Last edited by Kramanica on Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Running out of nation names faster than I can think of them
American National Syndicalist
"B-but gun control works in Australia..."

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:40 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Geneviev wrote:You're first generation, second generation, and so on. Go back as far as you need, you are descended from immigrants.

Also, no. America isn't close to being as good as most of the developed world with quite a few issues. Anti-vaxxers, homophobia, xenophobia, public education, healthcare... Need I go on?

Things are changing though. For every act of hate there is someone who speaks out against it.

Voices aren't always heard. Not the 1st time.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81230
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:40 pm

Geneviev wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Things are changing though. For every act of hate there is someone who speaks out against it.

Birther movement, now the alt-right? People who speak out against it are accused of being snowflakes or the radical left, or simply called fake news or haters and losers.


Those people are not the majority

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Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:43 pm

Kramanica wrote:
Geneviev wrote:You're first generation, second generation, and so on. Go back as far as you need, you are descended from immigrants.

Also, no. America isn't close to being as good as most of the developed world with quite a few issues. Anti-vaxxers, homophobia, xenophobia, public education, healthcare... Need I go on?

"Descended" does not mean you're an immigrant yourself so you're just patently incorrect there.

And we're pretty much objectively better than most of the countries people come here from. Haiti, Mexico, Liberia, Guatemala, et cetera. Sorry, but we are pretty much better than those countries by every possible metric.

Also
>he thinks other first world countries don't have xenophobia and anti-vaxxers

I chuckled.

What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Western-Ukraine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1163
Founded: Oct 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western-Ukraine » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:47 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kramanica wrote:"Descended" does not mean you're an immigrant yourself so you're just patently incorrect there.

And we're pretty much objectively better than most of the countries people come here from. Haiti, Mexico, Liberia, Guatemala, et cetera. Sorry, but we are pretty much better than those countries by every possible metric.

Also
>he thinks other first world countries don't have xenophobia and anti-vaxxers

I chuckled.

What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.

Wealth gaps are growing in many developed countries, even if they aren't huge yet. Also, mass shootings are much more likely to occur in the US, because the population is greater too. Regardless of anything, it's a matter of scale. And terrorism is hate crime, there's been quite a bit of terrorism in first-world countries.
Factbooks: National Politics
Region: U R N

Politics is a zero-sum game.

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:47 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kramanica wrote:"Descended" does not mean you're an immigrant yourself so you're just patently incorrect there.

And we're pretty much objectively better than most of the countries people come here from. Haiti, Mexico, Liberia, Guatemala, et cetera. Sorry, but we are pretty much better than those countries by every possible metric.

Also
>he thinks other first world countries don't have xenophobia and anti-vaxxers

I chuckled.

What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.

US citizens don't really have any power. Not in the national level, or even the state level.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:48 pm

Western-Ukraine wrote:
Geneviev wrote:What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.

Wealth gaps are growing in many developed countries, even if they aren't huge yet. Also, mass shootings are much more likely to occur in the US, because the population is greater too. Regardless of anything, it's a matter of scale. And terrorism is hate crime, there's been quite a bit of terrorism in first-world countries.

And even more in 3rd world countries.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81230
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:49 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Geneviev wrote:What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.

US citizens don't really have any power. Not in the national level, or even the state level.

As an American I cant tell that statement is false.

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Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:49 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Geneviev wrote:What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.

US citizens don't really have any power. Not in the national level, or even the state level.

They only have power if their President represents their views. Sadly, President Trump represents xenophobia, anti-vaxxers, Islamophobia.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81230
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:50 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:US citizens don't really have any power. Not in the national level, or even the state level.

They only have power if their President represents their views. Sadly, President Trump represents xenophobia, anti-vaxxers, Islamophobia.

He doesnt speak for me but my Governor does.

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Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Geneviev wrote:They only have power if their President represents their views. Sadly, President Trump represents xenophobia, anti-vaxxers, Islamophobia.

He doesnt speak for me but my Governor does.

Who is this Governor? I am fortunate to be represented quite well by Governor Jerry Brown.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Western-Ukraine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1163
Founded: Oct 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western-Ukraine » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:52 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Geneviev wrote:What do you think of "anchor babies" then? Full Americans for being born here?

Please, give me statistics. Wealth gaps, mass shootings, hate crimes, human development index, and so on. With sources.

They do. I can't deny that. But these people aren't represented by a President. They have no real power in other countries.

US citizens don't really have any power. Not in the national level, or even the state level.

Yes they do. It's just called representative democracy, not direct.
Factbooks: National Politics
Region: U R N

Politics is a zero-sum game.

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:09 pm

Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Soviet-mongol
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 433
Founded: Aug 19, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet-mongol » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:17 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:Jacques came to Ellis Island and married Helga. They learnt English, celebrated Thanksgiving and July 4th and bought victory bonds. They shopped in American shops and listened to American radio. They had two kids, Jack and Richard, who spoke English as a mother language. Richard later married Giulia before he was shipped off for expeditionary forces. They too had a kid, who was quintessentially American.

Unfortunately nowadays Mohammed and Aizah come to London and sign on benefits before doing anything else, then find a local community just like them. They live a parallel life to society and have six kids, Imran, Muhammad, Abid, Abdul, Amjad and Farah. Half of them speak broken English and leave education at 16, one of them probably hasn't enrolled in education at all to help at the household (probably Farah) and the other two live a broadly Man Like Mobeen lifestyle

Did America bombed Jacques` homeland? Were Jacques and Helga discrimanted on the basis of their skin color and religion?

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:19 pm

Soviet-mongol wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Jacques came to Ellis Island and married Helga. They learnt English, celebrated Thanksgiving and July 4th and bought victory bonds. They shopped in American shops and listened to American radio. They had two kids, Jack and Richard, who spoke English as a mother language. Richard later married Giulia before he was shipped off for expeditionary forces. They too had a kid, who was quintessentially American.

Unfortunately nowadays Mohammed and Aizah come to London and sign on benefits before doing anything else, then find a local community just like them. They live a parallel life to society and have six kids, Imran, Muhammad, Abid, Abdul, Amjad and Farah. Half of them speak broken English and leave education at 16, one of them probably hasn't enrolled in education at all to help at the household (probably Farah) and the other two live a broadly Man Like Mobeen lifestyle

Did America bombed Jacques` homeland? Were Jacques and Helga discrimanted on the basis of their skin color and religion?

Most likely. The US had a serious problem with Americans discriminating against Italians, Irish, Poles, and other European immigrants.
Edit: Oh wait, this is modern times, not 1900s.
In that case, that wouldn't happen to them as much as Muhammad and Aizah.
Last edited by Kubumba Tribe on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81230
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:20 pm

Geneviev wrote:
San Lumen wrote:He doesnt speak for me but my Governor does.

Who is this Governor? I am fortunate to be represented quite well by Governor Jerry Brown.

Andrew Cuomo

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Claorica
Diplomat
 
Posts: 861
Founded: Aug 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Claorica » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Geneviev wrote:You're first generation, second generation, and so on. Go back as far as you need, you are descended from immigrants.

Also, no. America isn't close to being as good as most of the developed world with quite a few issues. Anti-vaxxers, homophobia, xenophobia, public education, healthcare... Need I go on?

Things are changing though. For every act of hate there is someone who speaks out against it.


Unless Muslims or gays or democratic donors (looking at you Farrakhan) do the hating, then any criticism is called hate and the original hate is called an opinion.

The modern left is cancer, just like their founder Paine was cancer.
Pros Localism, Subsidiarity, Distributism, Traditionalism, Conservatism, Christian Democracy, Ruralism, Southern Agrarianism, Regionalism, State's Rights, Monarchism, Federalism, Rerum Novarum, Christian Monarchy, Christian conservatism, Boers, Presbyterianism (PCA) Aristocracy, Catholicism, the Subsidiarity Principle

Dues-Paying Member of the American Solidarity Party.

User avatar
Claorica
Diplomat
 
Posts: 861
Founded: Aug 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Claorica » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:22 pm

Geneviev wrote:
San Lumen wrote:He doesnt speak for me but my Governor does.

Who is this Governor? I am fortunate to be represented quite well by Governor Jerry Brown.

You might be. The poor bastards who live in you countryside just have to deal with your leftist nonsense.
Pros Localism, Subsidiarity, Distributism, Traditionalism, Conservatism, Christian Democracy, Ruralism, Southern Agrarianism, Regionalism, State's Rights, Monarchism, Federalism, Rerum Novarum, Christian Monarchy, Christian conservatism, Boers, Presbyterianism (PCA) Aristocracy, Catholicism, the Subsidiarity Principle

Dues-Paying Member of the American Solidarity Party.

User avatar
Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:23 pm

Claorica wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Things are changing though. For every act of hate there is someone who speaks out against it.


Unless Muslims or gays or democratic donors (looking at you Farrakhan) do the hating, then any criticism is called hate and the original hate is called an opinion.

Source/Proof?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Claorica
Diplomat
 
Posts: 861
Founded: Aug 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Claorica » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:23 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:US citizens don't really have any power. Not in the national level, or even the state level.

They only have power if their President represents their views. Sadly, President Trump represents xenophobia, anti-vaxxers, Islamophobia.


As immoral an asshole he is, trump represents me far more than Hilary or the socialist could’ve dreamed.
Pros Localism, Subsidiarity, Distributism, Traditionalism, Conservatism, Christian Democracy, Ruralism, Southern Agrarianism, Regionalism, State's Rights, Monarchism, Federalism, Rerum Novarum, Christian Monarchy, Christian conservatism, Boers, Presbyterianism (PCA) Aristocracy, Catholicism, the Subsidiarity Principle

Dues-Paying Member of the American Solidarity Party.

User avatar
Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:23 pm

Claorica wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Who is this Governor? I am fortunate to be represented quite well by Governor Jerry Brown.

You might be. The poor bastards who live in you countryside just have to deal with your leftist nonsense.

I feel really sorry for the people of Texas who have to put up with the rightist nonsense as well.

Least I have a governor who didn't want to deport my best friend. That was the President.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:23 pm

Claorica wrote:
Geneviev wrote:They only have power if their President represents their views. Sadly, President Trump represents xenophobia, anti-vaxxers, Islamophobia.


As immoral an asshole he is, trump represents me far more than Hilary or the socialist could’ve dreamed.


I'd believe that.

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