Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Internationalist Bastard]

I’m just sitting here in a multilingual- different religion relationship wondering our blasphemous race/culture mixing will kill us

[New Emeline]

I’m just sitting here in a multilingual- different religion relationship wondering our blasphemous race/culture mixing will kill us

Something something white genocide something something 1930's pseudoscience something something...

[The Parkus Empire]

Then why aren't they all the same size?

I was saying that would be my reason for countries still existing, Nowadays, I think they exist mostly because we've had the same system for so long everything would collapse if we tried to change it. I'm guessing you're trying to get me to say "we have countries because people are different". Which is true. People are different. But those differences exist among singular cultures and races.

You can see the states come out very different.

[New Emeline]

I was saying that would be my reason for countries still existing, Nowadays, I think they exist mostly because we've had the same system for so long everything would collapse if we tried to change it. I'm guessing you're trying to get me to say "we have countries because people are different". Which is true. People are different. But those differences exist among singular cultures and races.

You can see the states come out very different.

Which states?

[The East Marches II]

I wonder if San Lumen would be so kind as to give me a reply? He promised he wouldn't flee this time!

[Omakhandia]

American here. I'm all for immigration and I think we should be letting more people across the border (and as refugees), not fewer. I don't care about your religion, your cuisine, your culture, your skin color, etc.

What I do care about are your values.

This is why I support letting in immigrants from the Muslim world who are explicitly trying to escape persecution. But we should not be opening our arms to people who believe women should be subservient to men, or that gays and transgenders should be stoned, or that apostates deserve the death penalty. There is no room in a western liberal democracy for customs like forced marriages. There is no room for people who are OK with rape. There is especially no room for anyone who wants to start a theocracy, or who expects the West to kowtow to their freaky beliefs.

When you come to America, all I ask is that you believe in freedom, democracy, and capitalism. And I'm aware that a lot of people here don't hold to those beliefs. But as far as I'm concerned, a Syrian refugee who is fleeing to New York to open a business is more American than a California-born self-proclaimed communist.

[New Emeline]

American here. I'm all for immigration and I think we should be letting more people across the border (and as refugees), not fewer. I don't care about your religion, your cuisine, your culture, your skin color, etc.

What I do care about are your values.

This is why I support letting in immigrants from the Muslim world who are explicitly trying to escape persecution. But we should not be opening our arms to people who believe women should be subservient to men, or that gays and transgenders should be stoned, or that apostates deserve the death penalty. There is no room in a western liberal democracy for customs like forced marriages. There is no room for people who are OK with rape. There is especially no room for anyone who wants to start a theocracy, or who expects the West to kowtow to their freaky beliefs.

When you come to America, all I ask is that you believe in freedom, democracy, and capitalism. And I'm aware that a lot of people here don't hold to those beliefs. But as far as I'm concerned, a Syrian refugee who is fleeing to New York to open a business is more American than a California-born self-proclaimed communist.

Ditto on everything here except "support for capitalism". I don't think that it is necessary to be a capitalist as long as you are peaceful.

[The Parkus Empire]

American here. I'm all for immigration and I think we should be letting more people across the border (and as refugees), not fewer. I don't care about your religion, your cuisine, your culture, your skin color, etc.

What I do care about are your values.

This is why I support letting in immigrants from the Muslim world who are explicitly trying to escape persecution. But we should not be opening our arms to people who believe women should be subservient to men, or that gays and transgenders should be stoned, or that apostates deserve the death penalty. There is no room in a western liberal democracy for customs like forced marriages. There is no room for people who are OK with rape. There is especially no room for anyone who wants to start a theocracy, or who expects the West to kowtow to their freaky beliefs.

When you come to America, all I ask is that you believe in freedom, democracy, and capitalism. And I'm aware that a lot of people here don't hold to those beliefs. But as far as I'm concerned, a Syrian refugee who is fleeing to New York to open a business is more American than a California-born self-proclaimed communist.

America was not a predominantly capitalist economy until the 19th Century. It was mostly distributist

[New Emeline]

I think it's a bit weird you put "must be a capitalist" on the same moral level as "Don't rape people".

[Borinsa]

American here. I'm all for immigration and I think we should be letting more people across the border (and as refugees), not fewer. I don't care about your religion, your cuisine, your culture, your skin color, etc.

What I do care about are your values.

This is why I support letting in immigrants from the Muslim world who are explicitly trying to escape persecution. But we should not be opening our arms to people who believe women should be subservient to men, or that gays and transgenders should be stoned, or that apostates deserve the death penalty. There is no room in a western liberal democracy for customs like forced marriages. There is no room for people who are OK with rape. There is especially no room for anyone who wants to start a theocracy, or who expects the West to kowtow to their freaky beliefs.

When you come to America, all I ask is that you believe in freedom, democracy, and capitalism. And I'm aware that a lot of people here don't hold to those beliefs. But as far as I'm concerned, a Syrian refugee who is fleeing to New York to open a business is more American than a California-born self-proclaimed communist.

America was not a predominantly capitalist economy until the 19th Century. It was mostly distributist

Nobody knows what distributist means, is it an older more traditional type economy?
You know like where professions are inherited and everything is local?

[Omakhandia]

American here. I'm all for immigration and I think we should be letting more people across the border (and as refugees), not fewer. I don't care about your religion, your cuisine, your culture, your skin color, etc.

What I do care about are your values.

This is why I support letting in immigrants from the Muslim world who are explicitly trying to escape persecution. But we should not be opening our arms to people who believe women should be subservient to men, or that gays and transgenders should be stoned, or that apostates deserve the death penalty. There is no room in a western liberal democracy for customs like forced marriages. There is no room for people who are OK with rape. There is especially no room for anyone who wants to start a theocracy, or who expects the West to kowtow to their freaky beliefs.

When you come to America, all I ask is that you believe in freedom, democracy, and capitalism. And I'm aware that a lot of people here don't hold to those beliefs. But as far as I'm concerned, a Syrian refugee who is fleeing to New York to open a business is more American than a California-born self-proclaimed communist.

Ditto on everything here except "support for capitalism". I don't think that it is necessary to be a capitalist as long as you are peaceful.

Fair enough. I know a few far-lefties who I'm on good terms with, but the point is that they should never be able to inflict their beliefs on the populace at large. I personally do not separate economic freedom from personal freedom.

[New Emeline]

Ditto on everything here except "support for capitalism". I don't think that it is necessary to be a capitalist as long as you are peaceful.

Fair enough. I know a few far-lefties who I'm on good terms with, but the point is that they should never be able to inflict their beliefs on the populace at large. I personally do not separate economic freedom from personal freedom.

What do you define as "inflicting their beliefs"? Talking?

[Borinsa]

Fair enough. I know a few far-lefties who I'm on good terms with, but the point is that they should never be able to inflict their beliefs on the populace at large. I personally do not separate economic freedom from personal freedom.

What do you define as "inflicting their beliefs"? Talking?

I think he's talking about violent protest, and other acts,
Like all those outbreaks of ANTIFA,
and that one time in a school out west where students wouldn't let any of the white students or teachers in the campus to have a white free day supposedly to show how better life would be without "white privilege" (white people)

[New Emeline]

What do you define as "inflicting their beliefs"? Talking?

I think he's talking about violent protest, and other acts,
Like all those outbreaks of ANTIFA,
and that one time in a school out west where students wouldn't let any of the white students or teachers in the campus to have a white free day supposedly to show how better life would be without "white privilege" (white people)

I remember that, and the actual event was much more complicated. Still a clusterfuck, but different than that.
If we're talking about Evergreen State at least.
What really happened was that the school traditionally held a day without minorities, to demonstrate that racial minorities are in fact instrumental to modern culture. The students that stayed on campus would have talks about racism and such. One year they decided to flip that, holding the race discussion off campus instead of on campus. White students were encouraged to visit the off campus discussions, but the whole thing was always optional. Some people took it too far in both directions and it turned into a screaming match.

[The Parkus Empire]

America was not a predominantly capitalist economy until the 19th Century. It was mostly distributist

Nobody knows what distributist means, is it an older more traditional type economy?
You know like where professions are inherited and everything is local?

Distributism means land and the means of production being widely and privately held, and most of the economy being non-monetary.

[Borinsa]

I think he's talking about violent protest, and other acts,
Like all those outbreaks of ANTIFA,
and that one time in a school out west where students wouldn't let any of the white students or teachers in the campus to have a white free day supposedly to show how better life would be without "white privilege" (white people)

I remember that, and the actual event was much more complicated. Still a clusterfuck, but different than that.
If we're talking about Evergreen State at least.
What really happened was that the school traditionally held a day without minorities, to demonstrate that racial minorities are in fact instrumental to modern culture. The students that stayed on campus would have talks about racism and such. One year they decided to flip that, holding the race discussion off campus instead of on campus. White students were encouraged to visit the off campus discussions, but the whole thing was always optional. Some people took it too far in both directions and it turned into a screaming match.

That's still terrible! We should not even condone the very idea of subtracting a demographic from campus even for a day, it could potentially have the opposite effect as intended and promote genocide.

[Borinsa]

Nobody knows what distributist means, is it an older more traditional type economy?
You know like where professions are inherited and everything is local?

Distributism means land and the means of production being widely and privately held, and most of the economy being non-monetary.

So there are big rich estates, and bartering is common?
Sounds accurate.

[New Emeline]

I remember that, and the actual event was much more complicated. Still a clusterfuck, but different than that.
If we're talking about Evergreen State at least.
What really happened was that the school traditionally held a day without minorities, to demonstrate that racial minorities are in fact instrumental to modern culture. The students that stayed on campus would have talks about racism and such. One year they decided to flip that, holding the race discussion off campus instead of on campus. White students were encouraged to visit the off campus discussions, but the whole thing was always optional. Some people took it too far in both directions and it turned into a screaming match.

That's still terrible! We should not even condone the very idea of subtracting a demographic from campus even for a day, it could potentially have the opposite effect as intended and promote genocide.

I agree it was still a bad idea, but I don't think off-campus racism workshops quite equates to genocide. Or forcing people off of campus.

[Borinsa]

That's still terrible! We should not even condone the very idea of subtracting a demographic from campus even for a day, it could potentially have the opposite effect as intended and promote genocide.

I agree it was still a bad idea, but I don't think off-campus racism workshops quite equates to genocide. Or forcing people off of campus.

What I mean is that a handful of students are going to enjoy the day, and end up desiring a world without said race.

[Omakhandia]

Fair enough. I know a few far-lefties who I'm on good terms with, but the point is that they should never be able to inflict their beliefs on the populace at large. I personally do not separate economic freedom from personal freedom.

What do you define as "inflicting their beliefs"? Talking?

Just as radical Muslims should be free to spout whatever beliefs they want, radical leftists should be able to as well.

What they do not have a right to do is legislate according to their personal morality, or expect legislation to be passed that specifically caters to them.

[Borinsa]

What do you define as "inflicting their beliefs"? Talking?

Just as radical Muslims should be free to spout whatever beliefs they want, radical leftists should be able to as well.

What they do not have a right to do is legislate according to their personal morality, or expect legislation to be passed that specifically caters to them.

Or to take that same right away from others

[New Emeline]

I agree it was still a bad idea, but I don't think off-campus racism workshops quite equates to genocide. Or forcing people off of campus.

What I mean is that a handful of students are going to enjoy the day, and end up desiring a world without said race.

If the idea was executed correctly, there would still have been white students and faculty on campus. The problem is idiots took the whole thing too far in both directions and boom, you have a fiasco.
Besides, I don't think having all white students gone for a day would motivate the other students to genocide.

[Den Sosialistiske Republikk Norden]

*snip*

So the solution to racism is...

ANARCHY! England for the Anglo-Saxons! France for the Franks! Screw the governments and political ideas that the European powers have developed to fix centuries of warfare and feudalism! Everyone back to their homelands!

Destroying nationstates isn't going to work. You can't simply uproot the entire European political order in order to achieve some sembalance of social harmony. They are just lines on a paper, but they're underpinned by centuries of treaties, wars, and territorial evolution. America, Canada, and other colonial societies are unique cases. They were founded as multiethnic societies, and have had time to develop their own syncretic cultures and a strong national identity. To recklessly open the culturally homogenous old world to completely unrestricted immigration is inviting decades of unresolved racial tensions and resentment between "Europeans" and "Immigrants." It's silly, but you can't change everyone's mind, and I would rather keep immigrants out now and find a solution to the failed states they came from then have Europe disintegrate into sectarian and ethnic violence and have governments enforce integration at the barrel of a gun.

I said literally nothing about Anarchism. The only societal organization systems in history aren't nationstates and anarchy (which you equate with feudalism for some odd reason, btw feudalism wasn't a thing during the age of the enlightenment). And my entire point was that the homogeneity of Europe is completely artificial and built off of a mixture of social engineering and genocide. Monoculturalism is unnatural and violent, and the current state of Europe is just an example of that. The "homogeneity of the old world" is a system of brutality and evil that you're trying to preserve to its bitter end, not somehow the natural state of things.

But if you're just interested in spouting PEGIDA rhetoric, then I have no reason to debate you.

[Borinsa]

So the solution to racism is...

ANARCHY! England for the Anglo-Saxons! France for the Franks! Screw the governments and political ideas that the European powers have developed to fix centuries of warfare and feudalism! Everyone back to their homelands!

Destroying nationstates isn't going to work. You can't simply uproot the entire European political order in order to achieve some sembalance of social harmony. They are just lines on a paper, but they're underpinned by centuries of treaties, wars, and territorial evolution. America, Canada, and other colonial societies are unique cases. They were founded as multiethnic societies, and have had time to develop their own syncretic cultures and a strong national identity. To recklessly open the culturally homogenous old world to completely unrestricted immigration is inviting decades of unresolved racial tensions and resentment between "Europeans" and "Immigrants." It's silly, but you can't change everyone's mind, and I would rather keep immigrants out now and find a solution to the failed states they came from then have Europe disintegrate into sectarian and ethnic violence and have governments enforce integration at the barrel of a gun.

I said literally nothing about Anarchism. The only societal organization systems in history aren't nationstates and anarchy (which you equate with feudalism for some odd reason, btw feudalism wasn't a thing during the age of the enlightenment). And my entire point was that the homogeneity of Europe is completely artificial and built off of a mixture of social engineering and genocide. Monoculturalism is unnatural and violent, and the current state of Europe is just an example of that. The "homogeneity of the old world" is a system of brutality and evil that you're trying to preserve to its bitter end, not somehow the natural state of things.

But if you're just interested in spouting PEGIDA rhetoric, then I have no reason to debate you.

Actually, quite the contrary, heterogeneity is the more violent and unnatural case,
Just look at the new world, it's so heterogenous, and it's native population was wiped out in the ultimate act of violence. Heterogenous nations are also less stable.

Homogenous nations usually work out their borders over a long amount of time and naturally form their own single culture, where as usually with most heterogenous nations in the world, border are hastily scribbled onto the ground (often by former colonizers) and the random peoples within are forced to share a random cookie cutter and it almost always destabilizes.

You can't have Kurds and Arabs and Shia and Sunni in one nation, they'll kill eachother
You can't have Boer and Bantu and Khoisan in one nation, they'll kill eachother
You can't have Tibetans and Manchu and Han in the same country, the Han will ban the others cultures!
You can't have Communists and Capitalists in the same nation, they'll split it in half!
You can't have Jews and Arabs in the same nation (or general area) they'll kill eachother.

You can't have the Muslims in Europe, they'll kill the natives and assert their beliefs violently as the or culture dictates.

Nothing is more natural than the old state that formed slowly over more than 1000 years and formed into one people and culture,
Nothing is more atricfical than a country that is only about 200 years old, and has imported 99% of its people.

Nothing is natural about destroying an old nation state under the pretext of political agenda.

[Borinsa]

I think it's a bit weird you put "must be a capitalist" on the same moral level as "Don't rape people".

I think not being communist is more important than being capitalist.