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Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

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Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8497
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:37 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:That doesn't prove anything. And by the way, the people still support the current government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... y_election

and part of that is due to the opposition being so fractured and having no real base anymore

So in other words, the opposition isn’t supported by the people?
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:38 am

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and part of that is due to the opposition being so fractured and having no real base anymore

Okay, that's their own fault, and the people are rejecting them.


How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.

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Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8497
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:40 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Okay, that's their own fault, and the people are rejecting them.


How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.

The Greens will only win if the people support them. As of right now, Orban has the most support.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:40 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Okay, that's their own fault, and the people are rejecting them.


How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.

Because the people rejected their policies.

Prove it.

No they won't.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:44 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Okay, that's their own fault, and the people are rejecting them.


How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.


I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
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-Religious Freedom
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ANTI:
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-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
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"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:52 am

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.


I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""

Waiting for proof on that California claim, mate.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:54 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""

Waiting for proof on that California claim, mate.


:roll:
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:55 am

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Waiting for proof on that California claim, mate.


:roll:

Wonderful as emojis are, you still need a source. Or did you just have an unsupported assertion?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:58 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
:roll:

Wonderful as emojis are, you still need a source. Or did you just have an unsupported assertion?


I don't think this is an endeavour with a reasonable chance of success.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:58 am

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Wonderful as emojis are, you still need a source. Or did you just have an unsupported assertion?


I don't think this is an endeavour with a reasonable chance of success.

So, you can’t actually prove your claim. :clap:
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

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Page
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17480
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:59 am

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.


I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""


What is unfair about California's election system?
Anarcho-Communist Against: Bolsheviks, Fascists, TERFs, Putin, Autocrats, Conservatives, Ancaps, Bourgeoisie, Bigots, Liberals, Maoists

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:01 am

Page wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""


What is unfair about California's election system?

Jungle primaries.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:01 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I don't think this is an endeavour with a reasonable chance of success.

So, you can’t actually prove your claim. :clap:


Can I prove unfairness to an ideologue who considers the act of his party to be the very definition of "fair" of course not.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:06 am

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:So, you can’t actually prove your claim. :clap:


Can I prove unfairness to an ideologue who considers the act of his party to be the very definition of "fair" of course not.

1. I’m Spanish, not American.
2. The Democrats are not my party.
3. If an election system is rigged, it’s rigged.
4. You still have to prove your claim.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:08 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Can I prove unfairness to an ideologue who considers the act of his party to be the very definition of "fair" of course not.

1. I’m Spanish, not American.
2. The Democrats are not my party.
3. If an election system is rigged, it’s rigged.
4. You still have to prove your claim.


1. I'm sorry.
2. There definitely seems to exist bias.
3. Depends on what your definition of rigged is.
4. Nothing obligates me to chase mobile goalposts.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Page
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17480
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:12 am

Dresderstan wrote:
Page wrote:
What is unfair about California's election system?

Jungle primaries.


That answers the question "What kind of primaries does California have?", which we already knew, but it does not answer the question of why it this system is unfair.
Anarcho-Communist Against: Bolsheviks, Fascists, TERFs, Putin, Autocrats, Conservatives, Ancaps, Bourgeoisie, Bigots, Liberals, Maoists

I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:14 am

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:1. I’m Spanish, not American.
2. The Democrats are not my party.
3. If an election system is rigged, it’s rigged.
4. You still have to prove your claim.


1. I'm sorry.
2. There definitely seems to exist bias.
3. Depends on what your definition of rigged is.
4. Nothing obligates me to chase mobile goalposts.

There probably is bias towards their positions, what with being liberal and all. However, I hope I am not biased towards the party as-is. However, I have not moved any goalposts. You claimed that California’s election was rigged (On the level of Hungary’s, who I don’t know enough about to comment on.) Now, you have to prove that claim.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:14 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How is it their fault. Orban has made it so they cannot win. Maybe the Greens will defeat him but he will probably find a way to destroy them too.


I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""

It’s only unfair to you because your side doesn’t always and your vote doesn’t count more than urban counties

And in Hungary the opposition cannot win because the party in power has made it so

Prove how 61 percent of the electorate voting for the other candidate for governor is unfair or dictatorial
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:15 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""

It’s only unfair to you because your side doesn’t always and your vote doesn’t count more than urban counties

And in Hungary the opposition cannot win because the party in power has made it so

No it's unfair because our electoral system is fucking trash and should be burned to the ground and replaced with PR.

Prove it.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:17 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:It’s only unfair to you because your side doesn’t always and your vote doesn’t count more than urban counties

And in Hungary the opposition cannot win because the party in power has made it so

No it's unfair because our electoral system is fucking trash and should be burned to the ground and replaced with PR.

Prove it.

Let’s take this to election thread because at this point it’s a thread jack

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:18 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I do find it funny that when the controlling party in Hungary modifies elections to create a situation which benefits them it's described as a "Dictatorship" but when the controlling party in California does it, it's """Free and Fair Elections"""

It’s only unfair to you because your side doesn’t always and your vote doesn’t count more than urban counties

And in Hungary the opposition cannot win because the party in power has made it so

Prove how 61 percent of the electorate voting for the other candidate for governor is unfair or dictatorial


Can't prove your flights of fancy, sorry.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:20 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:It’s only unfair to you because your side doesn’t always and your vote doesn’t count more than urban counties

And in Hungary the opposition cannot win because the party in power has made it so

Prove how 61 percent of the electorate voting for the other candidate for governor is unfair or dictatorial


Can't prove your flights of fancy, sorry.

This a thread jack at this point and belongs in the elections thread

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Can't prove your flights of fancy, sorry.

This a thread jack at this point and belongs in the elections thread

Then go comment over there, you saying this is a threadjack and that it should be in the elections thread doesn't help either.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:42 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Can't prove your flights of fancy, sorry.

This a thread jack at this point and belongs in the elections thread


I think the intricacies of the friction between our cultures is very relevant to the multiculturalism thread.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:10 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:This a thread jack at this point and belongs in the elections thread


I think the intricacies of the friction between our cultures is very relevant to the multiculturalism thread.

Talking about how a government is structured isn't really related to multiculturalism nor diversity.
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