Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[San Lumen]

From my understanding multiculturalism is many cultures existing side by side.

A melting pot is many cultures that have fused into one culture to create a whole new one. I could be wrong though.

That's pretty much my generally understanding of it as well. But in my home city, we often do interfaith dialogues between various faiths which include several Christian sects, us Ahmadis, Reformist Jews, and a few Hindus. This is my own experience of multiculturalism by its proper definition

Interfaith dialogues is a great idea. In my city I have often seen mosque, churches and synagogues doing ceremonies outside as a attempt to reach out to people. Its quite effective I think.

If I may ask what is your home city?

[Jolthig]

That's pretty much my generally understanding of it as well. But in my home city, we often do interfaith dialogues between various faiths which include several Christian sects, us Ahmadis, Reformist Jews, and a few Hindus. This is my own experience of multiculturalism by its proper definition

Interfaith dialogues is a great idea. In my city I have often seem mosque, churches and synagogues doing ceremonies outside as a attempt to reach out to people. Its quite effective I think.

If I may ask what is your home city?

Oshkosh, Wisconsin, USA

[El-Amin Caliphate]

2: Allowing or disallowing stuff/changing culture isn't suppressing/destroying it. Culture cannot be destroyed, only changed and created.

So then we can influence Muslims away from certain practices and outlooks without it being seen as oppressive or destructive. Glad we got your blessing for that.

Don't twist my words.

Interfaith dialogues is a great idea. In my city I have often seem mosque, churches and synagogues doing ceremonies outside as a attempt to reach out to people. Its quite effective I think.

If I may ask what is your home city?

Oshkosh, Wisconsin, USA

>Looks up
Lol I thought you were making that up. That's an actual place!

[San Lumen]

So then we can influence Muslims away from certain practices and outlooks without it being seen as oppressive or destructive. Glad we got your blessing for that.

Don't twist my words.

Oshkosh, Wisconsin, USA

>Looks up
Lol I thought you were making that up. That's an actual place!

The United States has many amazing place names. The name Oshkosh comes from the Menominee Chief which means claw.

You brought up Ilhan Omar earlier. I still do not understand what your issue is with Muslims running for office. The United States is made up of many groups from all over the world. Why shouldn’t Muslims be a part of the government?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Don't twist my words.

>Looks up
Lol I thought you were making that up. That's an actual place!

The United States has many amazing place names. The name Oshkosh comes from the Menominee Chief which means claw.

You brought up Ilhan Omar earlier. I still do not understand what your issue is with Muslims running for office. The United States is made up of many groups from all over the world. Why shouldn’t Muslims be a part of the government?

I already told you why: It's haram.

[Jolthig]

The United States has many amazing place names. The name Oshkosh comes from the Menominee Chief which means claw.

You brought up Ilhan Omar earlier. I still do not understand what your issue is with Muslims running for office. The United States is made up of many groups from all over the world. Why shouldn’t Muslims be a part of the government?

I already told you why: It's haram.

No it's not. There is nowhere in the Quran or sunnah that prohibits this.

Muslims running for office is an excellent way of getting muslims and other minorities represented here in our nation. This can help clear up much misconception against our faith.

The duty of a Muslim is to always serve Allah and humanity second. A Muslim politician in a western country is no different.

Besides Christians and Jews worked in Muslim governments in the past and still do. Even as early as Medina.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I already told you why: It's haram.

No it's not. There is nowhere in the Quran or sunnah that prohibits this.

Muslims running for office is an excellent way getting muslims and other minorities represented here in our nation. This can help clear up much misconception against our faith.

The duty of a Muslim is to always serve Allah and humanity second. A Muslim politician in a western country is no different.

Besides Christians and Jews worked in Muslim governments. Even as early as Medina.

https://legacy.quran.com/33/36
We cannot rule by anything except according to the laws of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. What she and every other Muslim in a kufr government is doing is near opposite of that. If there's not an Islamist party in a country trying to (re)establish the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, then we shouldn't be running for office. At least not nationally, provincially, nor maybe locally.

[Jolthig]

No it's not. There is nowhere in the Quran or sunnah that prohibits this.

Muslims running for office is an excellent way getting muslims and other minorities represented here in our nation. This can help clear up much misconception against our faith.

The duty of a Muslim is to always serve Allah and humanity second. A Muslim politician in a western country is no different.

Besides Christians and Jews worked in Muslim governments. Even as early as Medina.

https://legacy.quran.com/33/36
We cannot rule by anything except according to the laws of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. What she and every other Muslim in a kufr government is doing is near opposite of that. If there's not an Islamist party in a country trying to (re)establish the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, then we shouldn't be running for office. At least not nationally, provincially, nor maybe locally.

I am not seeing a single thing in this verse that contradicts what i have stated?

[Jolthig]

Don't twist my words.

>Looks up
Lol I thought you were making that up. That's an actual place!

The United States has many amazing place names. The name Oshkosh comes from the Menominee Chief which means claw.

You brought up Ilhan Omar earlier. I still do not understand what your issue is with Muslims running for office. The United States is made up of many groups from all over the world. Why shouldn’t Muslims be a part of the government?

Yup. Oshkosh has a big part of Wisconsin history as well. Being an old industrial town.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://legacy.quran.com/33/36
We cannot rule by anything except according to the laws of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. What she and every other Muslim in a kufr government is doing is near opposite of that. If there's not an Islamist party in a country trying to (re)establish the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, then we shouldn't be running for office. At least not nationally, provincially, nor maybe locally.

I am not seeing a single thing in this verse that contradicts what i have stated?

Read it. We have no say in what Allah SWT and the Prophet Muhammad SAWS command. Whatever they say, we do. The Holy Qur'an commands certain punishments for certain crimes. Is that some in the US? The Holy Qur'an and Sunnah prohibit alcohol, fornication, adultery, nudity, prostitution, etc. Is that prohibitted in the US as it is in Al-Islam? Are Muslims free to go to those places? Do you really think it's halal for a Muslim to govern against the commands of Allah SWT?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/107166/ ... hat-system
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/pu ... urces.html

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I am not seeing a single thing in this verse that contradicts what i have stated?

Read it. We have no say in what Allah SWT and the Prophet Muhammad SAWS command. Whatever they say, we do. The Holy Qur'an commands certain punishments for certain crimes. Is that some in the US? The Holy Qur'an and Sunnah prohibit alcohol, fornication, adultery, nudity, prostitution, etc. Is that prohibitted in the US as it is in Al-Islam? Are Muslims free to go to those places? Do you really think it's halal for a Muslim to govern against the commands of Allah SWT?

Who would've thought that a religion that originated in a blistering hot desert where people have to cover up to protect themselves against the sand and the sun's blast would prohibit nudity.

Color me desert yellow.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Read it. We have no say in what Allah SWT and the Prophet Muhammad SAWS command. Whatever they say, we do. The Holy Qur'an commands certain punishments for certain crimes. Is that some in the US? The Holy Qur'an and Sunnah prohibit alcohol, fornication, adultery, nudity, prostitution, etc. Is that prohibitted in the US as it is in Al-Islam? Are Muslims free to go to those places? Do you really think it's halal for a Muslim to govern against the commands of Allah SWT?

Who would've thought that a religion that originated in a blistering hot desert where people have to cover up to protect themselves against the sand and the sun's blast would prohibit nudity.

Color me desert yellow.

Not even why it was forbidden but ok.

[Frievolk]

Who would've thought that a religion that originated in a blistering hot desert where people have to cover up to protect themselves against the sand and the sun's blast would prohibit nudity.

Color me desert yellow.

Not even why it was forbidden but ok.

Actually that's literally why it was forbidden, historically speaking.

[Jolthig]

I am not seeing a single thing in this verse that contradicts what i have stated?

Read it. We have no say in what Allah SWT and the Prophet Muhammad SAWS command. Whatever they say, we do. The Holy Qur'an commands certain punishments for certain crimes. Is that some in the US? The Holy Qur'an and Sunnah prohibit alcohol, fornication, adultery, nudity, prostitution, etc. Is that prohibitted in the US as it is in Al-Islam? Are Muslims free to go to those places? Do you really think it's halal for a Muslim to govern against the commands of Allah SWT?

That has nothing to do with what I said. Sure, the US doesn't have Shariah Law, but that doesn't mean we still dont help out the government. The government here in the US is meant for everyone regardless of faith. The reason the US has alcohol, fornificarion, adultery, nudity, and prostitution is because the majority aren't Muslim. We muslims just simply not imitate those customs just like how they dont imitate us.

Plus, many of the punishments in the Quran have historical reasons behind them. Arabia didnt have the systems that we have today. On top of that the society was quite immature when the Quran was revealed, though of course over time, the muslims grew from those converted pagans.

The Quran speaks of nothing against Muslims serving in a non Muslim government. Even if it doesn't have Islamic punishments, it does not go against the Quran or sunnah. It doesn't mean we're sacrificing our faith to please the non believers.

Besides, the Quran also gives us several options on how to deal with criminals like with Surah 5:33 for example. There's literally four different punishments in there. As well as in a few other verses.

The Quran prescribes punishments for certain contexts depending on the severity. For non theocratic nations we can still try our best to help.

You still have no demonstrated why serving in a non theocratic government is in itself haram. You've instead brought in topics with noth ing to do with what I have said.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Read it. We have no say in what Allah SWT and the Prophet Muhammad SAWS command. Whatever they say, we do. The Holy Qur'an commands certain punishments for certain crimes. Is that some in the US? The Holy Qur'an and Sunnah prohibit alcohol, fornication, adultery, nudity, prostitution, etc. Is that prohibitted in the US as it is in Al-Islam? Are Muslims free to go to those places? Do you really think it's halal for a Muslim to govern against the commands of Allah SWT?

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does.

Sure, the US doesn't have Shariah Law, but that doesn't mean we still dont help out the government.

There's no way I'm gonna help the US gov lol. I hate it. It's been evil since it was a colonial government.

The government here in the US is meant for everyone regardless of faith.

Obviouslynot if it's not governing by Shari'ah.

The reason the US has alcohol, fornificarion, adultery, nudity, and prostitution is because the majority aren't Muslim. We muslims just simply not imitate those customs just like how they dont imitate us.

Correct, but we also can't criminalize these crimes either. Hence, an aspect of kufr law.

Plus, many of the punishments in the Quran have historical reasons behind them. Arabia didnt have the systems that we have today. On top of that the society was quite immature when the Quran was revealed, though of course over time, the muslims grew from those converted pagans.

We have to implement the laws.

The Quran speaks of nothing against Muslims serving in a non Muslim government.

Yes it does:
https://legacy.quran.com/33/36
https://legacy.quran.com/3/132
https://legacy.quran.com/4/59
https://legacy.quran.com/5/92
https://legacy.quran.com/9/71
https://legacy.quran.com/24/52
https://legacy.quran.com/33/66
https://legacy.quran.com/33/71
https://legacy.quran.com/47/33
https://legacy.quran.com/4/83
https://legacy.quran.com/13/37
https://legacy.quran.com/18/44
https://legacy.quran.com/44/18
https://legacy.quran.com/44/19

Even if it doesn't have Islamic punishments, it does not go against the Quran or sunnah.

That blatantly goes against the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. To not have an Islamic punishment. But that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is that a Muslim running for a governing office, enforcing laws contrary to what already established in our religion, goes against Al-Islam.

It doesn't mean we're sacrificing our faith to please the non believers.

Not entirely, no. But you are sacrificing your beliefs if your running for office in a kufr gov.

Besides, the Quran also gives us several options on how to deal with criminals like with Surah 5:33 for example. There's literally four different punishments in there.

1 ayah which still shows Islamic punishments.

As well as in a few other verses.

Examples?

The Quran prescribes punishments for certain contexts depending on the severity. For non theocratic nations we can still try our best to help.

Yes, help them become a theocracy.

You still have no demonstrated why serving in a non theocratic government is in itself haram.

I did.

You've instead brought in topics with noth ing to do with what I have said.

Did you read those links?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Also you didn't answer this question: do you think it's halal for Muslim to rule according to something else other than the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Some more links:
http://www.khilafah.com/voting-in-democ ... -to-allah/
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/98134/c ... y-in-islam
http://sunnahonline.com/library/contemp ... o-vote-for
http://www.daruliftaa.com/node/5676
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa-birmingham/20270
Edit: I had to use links about whether voting is halal or haram because I can't find a lot of sources about ruling contrary to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. They still get my point across.
Here's more:
http://www.khilafah.com/part-1-particip ... fr-system/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 6883305302
https://www.al-islam.org/shia-political ... -democracy
http://www.universal-islam.com/articles ... .php?id=11

[Estanglia]

Doesn't matter what you think. That's literally the point of tolerance and multiculturalism.

You are not a presecuted group. You have never known what a dictatorship is like. One of my coworkers spent her early years in last decade of the Romania dictatorship. Trust me you have no idea what persecution or oppression is.

Ok and how is immigration an invasion? How is someone from Korea or China going to work for google or Instagram in San Francisco harming you?

You do realise there are different degrees to oppression and persecution right? You bringing up your coworker doesn't disprove Telconi being oppressed/persecuted, it just shows that there were/is more oppressed/persecuted groups, otherwise by your logic virtually nobody is oppressed/persecuted because there is almost always people more oppressed than them.

Why is my culture exclued from multiculturalism? Because you dislike it?

I don’t think the average person would consider guns a culture. And can you answer the question

And? There is a gun culture. If the average person didn't consider Italian culture a culture, does that mean Italian culture doesn't exist?

No.

Or, I guess more accurately, not necessarily. I am sure there are Muslims who wish to, but I also know Muslims who oppose those.

So who is threatening your culture? Those evil people in Sacramento elected in a free and fair election by a majority of the state?

The people who want to strip away the 2A are the ones threatening Telconi's gun culture.

EDIT:

Gavin Newsom's policy agenda violates the 2nd amendment. The fact he is allowed to implement such an agenda is a travesty of justice.

Well I’m sorry people have the audacity to disagree with you and the people of your state consist of of people from all over the world and they don’t all have a single issue like you. This is not a gun debate

To get this back to topic why do you consider immigration to be an invasion? How is someone from Asia who comes to San Francisco to work for google invading? Are they taking jobs from you?

So violations of the 14th amendment is a 'travesty of justice' but violations of the 2nd amendment is just a 'disagreement'.

The violation of rights is the violation of rights, no matter what right it is.

[Jolthig]

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does.

Sure, the US doesn't have Shariah Law, but that doesn't mean we still dont help out the government.

There's no way I'm gonna help the US gov lol. I hate it. It's been evil since it was a colonial government.

The government here in the US is meant for everyone regardless of faith.

Obviouslynot if it's not governing by Shari'ah.

The reason the US has alcohol, fornificarion, adultery, nudity, and prostitution is because the majority aren't Muslim. We muslims just simply not imitate those customs just like how they dont imitate us.

Correct, but we also can't criminalize these crimes either. Hence, an aspect of kufr law.

Plus, many of the punishments in the Quran have historical reasons behind them. Arabia didnt have the systems that we have today. On top of that the society was quite immature when the Quran was revealed, though of course over time, the muslims grew from those converted pagans.

We have to implement the laws.

The Quran speaks of nothing against Muslims serving in a non Muslim government.

Yes it does:
https://legacy.quran.com/33/36
https://legacy.quran.com/3/132
https://legacy.quran.com/4/59
https://legacy.quran.com/5/92
https://legacy.quran.com/9/71
https://legacy.quran.com/24/52
https://legacy.quran.com/33/66
https://legacy.quran.com/33/71
https://legacy.quran.com/47/33
https://legacy.quran.com/4/83
https://legacy.quran.com/13/37
https://legacy.quran.com/18/44
https://legacy.quran.com/44/18
https://legacy.quran.com/44/19

Even if it doesn't have Islamic punishments, it does not go against the Quran or sunnah.

That blatantly goes against the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. To not have an Islamic punishment. But that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is that a Muslim running for a governing office, enforcing laws contrary to what already established in our religion, goes against Al-Islam.

It doesn't mean we're sacrificing our faith to please the non believers.

Not entirely, no. But you are sacrificing your beliefs if your running for office in a kufr gov.

Besides, the Quran also gives us several options on how to deal with criminals like with Surah 5:33 for example. There's literally four different punishments in there.

1 ayah which still shows Islamic punishments.

As well as in a few other verses.

Examples?

The Quran prescribes punishments for certain contexts depending on the severity. For non theocratic nations we can still try our best to help.

Yes, help them become a theocracy.

You still have no demonstrated why serving in a non theocratic government is in itself haram.

I did.

You've instead brought in topics with noth ing to do with what I have said.

Did you read those links?

I'd respond but with me being busy these next few days. I may not have much time. Perhaps later tonight or when I have free time.

[San Lumen]

You are not a presecuted group. You have never known what a dictatorship is like. One of my coworkers spent her early years in last decade of the Romania dictatorship. Trust me you have no idea what persecution or oppression is.

Ok and how is immigration an invasion? How is someone from Korea or China going to work for google or Instagram in San Francisco harming you?

You do realise there are different degrees to oppression and persecution right? You bringing up your coworker doesn't disprove Telconi being oppressed/persecuted, it just shows that there were/is more oppressed/persecuted groups, otherwise by your logic virtually nobody is oppressed/persecuted because there is almost always people more oppressed than them.

I don’t think the average person would consider guns a culture. And can you answer the question

And? There is a gun culture. If the average person didn't consider Italian culture a culture, does that mean Italian culture doesn't exist?

So who is threatening your culture? Those evil people in Sacramento elected in a free and fair election by a majority of the state?

The people who want to strip away the 2A are the ones threatening Telconi's gun culture.

EDIT:

Well I’m sorry people have the audacity to disagree with you and the people of your state consist of of people from all over the world and they don’t all have a single issue like you. This is not a gun debate

To get this back to topic why do you consider immigration to be an invasion? How is someone from Asia who comes to San Francisco to work for google invading? Are they taking jobs from you?

So violations of the 14th amendment is a 'travesty of justice' but violations of the 2nd amendment is just a 'disagreement'.

The violation of rights is the violation of rights, no matter what right it is.

For him to claim oppresssion is insulting to those who experienced it.

No one is stripping away his rights.

[Estanglia]

You do realise there are different degrees to oppression and persecution right? You bringing up your coworker doesn't disprove Telconi being oppressed/persecuted, it just shows that there were/is more oppressed/persecuted groups, otherwise by your logic virtually nobody is oppressed/persecuted because there is almost always people more oppressed than them.


And? There is a gun culture. If the average person didn't consider Italian culture a culture, does that mean Italian culture doesn't exist?


The people who want to strip away the 2A are the ones threatening Telconi's gun culture.

EDIT:

So violations of the 14th amendment is a 'travesty of justice' but violations of the 2nd amendment is just a 'disagreement'.

The violation of rights is the violation of rights, no matter what right it is.

For him to claim oppresssion is insulting to those who experienced it.

Is he claiming to be as oppressed/persecuted as those like your Romanian coworker? If he is, then it's insulting. If he's just saying 'I'm oppressed/persecuted', then it's not necessarily insulting.

No one is stripping away his rights.

There has been attempts to pass laws (and some have actually been passed) that violate people's 2A rights.

[Kaggeceria]

You do realise there are different degrees to oppression and persecution right? You bringing up your coworker doesn't disprove Telconi being oppressed/persecuted, it just shows that there were/is more oppressed/persecuted groups, otherwise by your logic virtually nobody is oppressed/persecuted because there is almost always people more oppressed than them.


And? There is a gun culture. If the average person didn't consider Italian culture a culture, does that mean Italian culture doesn't exist?


The people who want to strip away the 2A are the ones threatening Telconi's gun culture.

EDIT:

So violations of the 14th amendment is a 'travesty of justice' but violations of the 2nd amendment is just a 'disagreement'.

The violation of rights is the violation of rights, no matter what right it is.

For him to claim oppresssion is insulting to those who experienced it.

No one is stripping away his rights.

How would you know what oppression is like?

[San Lumen]

For him to claim oppresssion is insulting to those who experienced it.

No one is stripping away his rights.

How would you know what oppression is like?

I know people who came from it and would be insulted by his claims

[Western Vale Confederacy]

For him to claim oppresssion is insulting to those who experienced it.

No one is stripping away his rights.

How would you know what oppression is like?

Oppression is being held at the end of an AK-47 barrel by a guerrilla fighter who wants your teenage daughter as a trophy wife and only escaping because said fighter had a moment of lucidity and humanity...