Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Western Vale Confederacy]

To be honest, I don't see how Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value.

And Multiculturalism ain't a human right. The only way it's a human right is if you go with the idea of freedom of persecution due to your culture is a human right and concluded that that requires Multiculturalism or something.

---

Yes, America was founded by what could be considered immigrants. And this country arguably owes a lot to immigrants who have come here.
But the United States ain't multicultural in the same sense as Canada is.

If I remember correctly, Canada goes with the idea of different cultures being pieces of the mosaic of the culture of Canada.
America doesn't think that way. The Melting Pot is how we've gone with it, which focuses more on assimilation instead of multiculturalism. Basically, there is an American Culture that immigrants assimilate into but also influence with their original culture.

That is interesting I never know that about Canada. They do seem to do well with assimilation though to an extent

The "Salad Bowl" doctrine is becoming rapidly disliked by a majority of Canadians though.

It's particularly disliked by the French-Canadians who are very vehement about protecting their own culture (which is the oldest in Canada if you exclude the First Nations).

[San Lumen]

That is interesting I never know that about Canada. They do seem to do well with assimilation though to an extent

The "Salad Bowl" doctrine is becoming rapidly disliked by a majority of Canadians though.

It's particularly disliked by the French-Canadians who are very vehement about protecting their own culture (which is the oldest in Canada if you exclude the First Nations).

Salad Bowl? Ive never heard such a phrase.

[Page]

Police officers still come out to indulge the call of every Barbecue Becky reporting the crime of "existing while black." Cops are always patrolling the roads and stopping people who supposedly look suspicious. Every day thousands of people are booked for some kind of victimless crime. And the police respond to protests by acting like a military force.

Show me a police department that ignores crime and reports of crime.

[Alvecia]

The "Salad Bowl" doctrine is becoming rapidly disliked by a majority of Canadians though.

It's particularly disliked by the French-Canadians who are very vehement about protecting their own culture (which is the oldest in Canada if you exclude the First Nations).

Salad Bowl? Ive never heard such a phrase.

From memory it's meant to be similar to the "Melting Pot" of cultures model, but where a melting pot dissolves all the constituent parts into a single unified culture, the salad bowl would have each culture mixed together, but quite distinct from each other.

If I'm wrong please correct me.

[Valgora]

The "Salad Bowl" doctrine is becoming rapidly disliked by a majority of Canadians though.

It's particularly disliked by the French-Canadians who are very vehement about protecting their own culture (which is the oldest in Canada if you exclude the First Nations).

Salad Bowl? Ive never heard such a phrase.

I've only heard it applied to the United States as a rival to the Melting Pot.
I've never heard of it applied to Canada, although I could see why it would also be used there.

[San Lumen]

Salad Bowl? Ive never heard such a phrase.

I've only heard it applied to the United States as a rival to the Melting Pot.
I've never heard of it applied to Canada, although I could see why it would also be used there.

I know people from Canada and Ive never heard them use that phrase.

[Estanglia]

In all seriousness I feel Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value, and a kind of human right in a way.

How so?

[Bienenhalde]

Anyway, I think Jesus said in a way to love people of all cultures no matter where they were from so I think multiculturalism is rooted in Christianity and Christians have fucked up failing to remember that for millennia. It is to me a very Christian value. Thus, I strongly support it.

Sure, it is good to care about and respect people regardless of ethnicity. But that does not mean that people in any given country should not be expected to adhere to a common set of cultural values and obey the same laws. When immigrants arrive in a new country it is necessary for them to assimilate.

[Zhizao]

Anyway, I think Jesus said in a way to love people of all cultures no matter where they were from so I think multiculturalism is rooted in Christianity and Christians have fucked up failing to remember that for millennia. It is to me a very Christian value. Thus, I strongly support it.

Sure, it is good to care about and respect people regardless of ethnicity. But that does not mean that people in any given country should not be expected to adhere to a common set of cultural values and obey the same laws. When immigrants arrive in a new country it is necessary for them to assimilate.

Assimilation = Key

If immigrants move to a different country, they should make sincere efforts to understand that country's values and integrate. A condition of gaining citizenship is proving complete allegiance to the country which you want to obtain citizenship in. Nations don't want disloyal, ungrateful immigrants.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Source for the bolded stuff?

For the Deobandi stats
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/06/who ... r-mosques/
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/radical ... 60056.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hard ... hdjz2cjpnc

A lot of the stuff said in those articles isn't a strange concept. It's not even a Deobandi-only thing, most of those are mainstream Islamic concepts. Now, not wearing a tie is weird, and considering that that shaykh likes the Taliban, he probs has a warped definition of "armed jihad". Same for the "women can't go more than 48 miles without a mahram". It's actually 1 - 3 days depending on the Hadith you read. And I doubt that American masajid preach a liberal interpretation of Al-Islam.

Details in Savile Town, including their Shariah Court, can be found here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savile_Town

Was also covered in a report by the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dents.html

And in a video by the Iconoclast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em92Hrb2s90

Amber Rudd's statement
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... rs-UK-laws
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expre ... rt-gallery
https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe ... s-1.701243

AlHamdulillah. Now the court has to deal with criminal matters. And more Shari'ah courts should be built.

Apologies for the delay, I had things to do.

It's ok

Sure, it is good to care about and respect people regardless of ethnicity. But that does not mean that people in any given country should not be expected to adhere to a common set of cultural values and obey the same laws. When immigrants arrive in a new country it is necessary for them to assimilate.

Assimilation = Key

If immigrants move to a different country, they should make sincere efforts to understand that country's values and integrate. A condition of gaining citizenship is proving complete allegiance to the country which you want to obtain citizenship in. Nations don't want disloyal, ungrateful immigrants.

Integration is different from assimilation. I support the former.

[Valgora]

To be honest, I don't see how Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value.

And Multiculturalism ain't a human right. The only way it's a human right is if you go with the idea of freedom of persecution due to your culture is a human right and concluded that that requires Multiculturalism or something.

"Freedom of persecution"

You mean freedom from persecution.

I meant what I said.

No... I did mean freedom from persecution.

[San Lumen]

Sure, it is good to care about and respect people regardless of ethnicity. But that does not mean that people in any given country should not be expected to adhere to a common set of cultural values and obey the same laws. When immigrants arrive in a new country it is necessary for them to assimilate.

Assimilation = Key

If immigrants move to a different country, they should make sincere efforts to understand that country's values and integrate. A condition of gaining citizenship is proving complete allegiance to the country which you want to obtain citizenship in. Nations don't want disloyal, ungrateful immigrants.

whats your definition of assimilation?

[Zhizao]

Assimilation = Key

If immigrants move to a different country, they should make sincere efforts to understand that country's values and integrate. A condition of gaining citizenship is proving complete allegiance to the country which you want to obtain citizenship in. Nations don't want disloyal, ungrateful immigrants.

whats your definition of assimilation?

Learning the language, customs, and values of your new home country, and pledging your loyalty to the new country above and beyond any former loyalties to the old country.

[Mystic Warriors]

In all seriousness I feel Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value, and a kind of human right in a way.

To be honest, I don't see how Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value.

And Multiculturalism ain't a human right. The only way it's a human right is if you go with the idea of freedom of persecution due to your culture is a human right and concluded that that requires Multiculturalism or something.

---

Countries like Canada and the United States were literally founded by immigrants and have been multicultural for almost their entire history.

Yes, America was founded by what could be considered immigrants. And this country arguably owes a lot to immigrants who have come here.
But the United States ain't multicultural in the same sense as Canada is.

If I remember correctly, Canada goes with the idea of different cultures being pieces of the mosaic of the culture of Canada.
America doesn't think that way. The Melting Pot is how we've gone with it, which focuses more on assimilation instead of multiculturalism. Basically, there is an American Culture that immigrants assimilate into but also influence with their original culture.

They were more illegal invaders than immigrants.


And we are multicultural, always have been. Look at the difference between Texas and California. Different areas of the US have different customs, dialects and food.

[Dahon]

One might want to look at Savile Town, Yorkshire.

93% Asian Muslim. The sect is Deobandi, which is an ultraconservative Sunni sect which defends the right to wage holy war in the so-called "defence" of Islam.

Deobandism controls around 50% of all mosques in the country, and trains around 80% of Islamic clerics in the country.

The people living in Savile Town are largely covered up. The men wear Arab-style robes, the women and girls in hijabs and niqabs. They advocate living as the Prophet Muhammad did, doing as he did, and not doing what he didn't do.

They have a Shariah court which typically handles divorce, and which the Home Secretary at the time Amber Rudd did not wish to regulate because it would 'legitimise' Shariah law, and the people there have absolutely no interest in living alongside anyone but their own people, going so far as to even try to buy a woman's house just days after her husband died.

I would wager for every example you can find of an Islamic community in the West with no, at least outwardly apparent wish, to impose their own beliefs, you can find one that does.

Islamic identity is fundamentally against Western identity. Its values, tenets, and core principles are not aligned in any way with those of the Enlightenment values espoused here in the West.

A Muslim who is self-professed as being wholly Western in every way, shape or form, can at best be simply described as a person who believes in a God whilst being Western. To be Muslim is to adhere to Islam, a political as well as religious movement with a defined set of ideas and values that overlap its sects and variations, and direct every aspect of personal life. To be Muslim is not to just believe in a God, it is to believe in a certain way, to live a certain way, to think, act, feel, and behave a certain way.

And that is not the Western way. That is the Islamic way. Shariah law. Theocracy. Submission before God.

If a community exists with Islamic identity, then the advocacy of those things within that community is inevitable.

I've been meaning to reply this for some time, only my mind keeps... slipping me one up as of late.

My question to you, since you brought this up and all, is this: is there any problem in people practicing their chosen faith as they wish, provided that they not seek to impose their faith on others, or seek to harm a non practitioner (or in certain cases even a devotee) in doing so?

I ask you this, given the Deobandi's avowed claim to a pacifist if extremely exacting form of Islam, which means they definitely won't be harming a non-Muslim any time soon or even doing anything illegal (Muslims living within Sails are another matter), even if the values they cherish go against British or Western cultures.

[Kubumba Tribe]

whats your definition of assimilation?

Learning the language, customs, and values of your new home country, and pledging your loyalty to the new country above and beyond any former loyalties to the old country.

That's integration, not assimilation.

They were more illegal invaders than immigrants.

Who are you talking about?

[Telconi]

To be honest, I don't see how Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value.

And Multiculturalism ain't a human right. The only way it's a human right is if you go with the idea of freedom of persecution due to your culture is a human right and concluded that that requires Multiculturalism or something.

---

Yes, America was founded by what could be considered immigrants. And this country arguably owes a lot to immigrants who have come here.
But the United States ain't multicultural in the same sense as Canada is.

If I remember correctly, Canada goes with the idea of different cultures being pieces of the mosaic of the culture of Canada.
America doesn't think that way. The Melting Pot is how we've gone with it, which focuses more on assimilation instead of multiculturalism. Basically, there is an American Culture that immigrants assimilate into but also influence with their original culture.

They were more illegal invaders than immigrants.


And we are multicultural, always have been. Look at the difference between Texas and California. Different areas of the US have different customs, dialects and food.

Containing different cultures does not a multi-cultural society make.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

One might want to look at Savile Town, Yorkshire.

93% Asian Muslim. The sect is Deobandi, which is an ultraconservative Sunni sect which defends the right to wage holy war in the so-called "defence" of Islam.

Deobandism controls around 50% of all mosques in the country, and trains around 80% of Islamic clerics in the country.

The people living in Savile Town are largely covered up. The men wear Arab-style robes, the women and girls in hijabs and niqabs. They advocate living as the Prophet Muhammad did, doing as he did, and not doing what he didn't do.

They have a Shariah court which typically handles divorce, and which the Home Secretary at the time Amber Rudd did not wish to regulate because it would 'legitimise' Shariah law, and the people there have absolutely no interest in living alongside anyone but their own people, going so far as to even try to buy a woman's house just days after her husband died.

I would wager for every example you can find of an Islamic community in the West with no, at least outwardly apparent wish, to impose their own beliefs, you can find one that does.

Islamic identity is fundamentally against Western identity. Its values, tenets, and core principles are not aligned in any way with those of the Enlightenment values espoused here in the West.

A Muslim who is self-professed as being wholly Western in every way, shape or form, can at best be simply described as a person who believes in a God whilst being Western. To be Muslim is to adhere to Islam, a political as well as religious movement with a defined set of ideas and values that overlap its sects and variations, and direct every aspect of personal life. To be Muslim is not to just believe in a God, it is to believe in a certain way, to live a certain way, to think, act, feel, and behave a certain way.

And that is not the Western way. That is the Islamic way. Shariah law. Theocracy. Submission before God.

If a community exists with Islamic identity, then the advocacy of those things within that community is inevitable.

I've been meaning to reply this for some time, only my mind keeps... slipping me one up as of late.

My question to you, since you brought this up and all, is this: is there any problem in people practicing their chosen faith as they wish, provided that they not seek to impose their faith on others, or seek to harm a non practitioner (or in certain cases even a devotee) in doing so?

I ask you this, given the Deobandi's avowed claim to a pacifist if extremely exacting form of Islam, which means they definitely won't be harming a non-Muslim any time soon or even doing anything illegal (Muslims living within Sails are another matter), even if the values they cherish go against British or Western cultures.

The Taliban are Deobandi. Deobandi is absolutely not pacifist.

And I would say there is an absolutely immense problem given the controlling nature of Deobandism and the fact that it's spread through this town, wanting to buy people out and forcing them to leave, can be considered nothing less than conquest without arms.

If they want to practice 7th century Islam in the Deobandi style, they can go do that in Pakistan.

What right have they to take over a British town and set up a Deobandi enclave? They want to live like Muhammad did. Look at what Muhammad did. If it doesn't leave you concerned then you don't understand what you read.

To be honest, I don't see how Multiculturalism is a core Judeo-Christian value.

And Multiculturalism ain't a human right. The only way it's a human right is if you go with the idea of freedom of persecution due to your culture is a human right and concluded that that requires Multiculturalism or something.

---

Yes, America was founded by what could be considered immigrants. And this country arguably owes a lot to immigrants who have come here.
But the United States ain't multicultural in the same sense as Canada is.

If I remember correctly, Canada goes with the idea of different cultures being pieces of the mosaic of the culture of Canada.
America doesn't think that way. The Melting Pot is how we've gone with it, which focuses more on assimilation instead of multiculturalism. Basically, there is an American Culture that immigrants assimilate into but also influence with their original culture.

They were more illegal invaders than immigrants.


And we are multicultural, always have been. Look at the difference between Texas and California. Different areas of the US have different customs, dialects and food.

Variations within an umbrella culture, in this case American, do not constitute multiculturalism because they are not distinct cultures with different roots.

[Senegalboy]

One might want to look at Savile Town, Yorkshire.

93% Asian Muslim. The sect is Deobandi, which is an ultraconservative Sunni sect which defends the right to wage holy war in the so-called "defence" of Islam.

Deobandism controls around 50% of all mosques in the country, and trains around 80% of Islamic clerics in the country.

The people living in Savile Town are largely covered up. The men wear Arab-style robes, the women and girls in hijabs and niqabs. They advocate living as the Prophet Muhammad did, doing as he did, and not doing what he didn't do.

They have a Shariah court which typically handles divorce, and which the Home Secretary at the time Amber Rudd did not wish to regulate because it would 'legitimise' Shariah law, and the people there have absolutely no interest in living alongside anyone but their own people, going so far as to even try to buy a woman's house just days after her husband died.

I would wager for every example you can find of an Islamic community in the West with no, at least outwardly apparent wish, to impose their own beliefs, you can find one that does.

Islamic identity is fundamentally against Western identity. Its values, tenets, and core principles are not aligned in any way with those of the Enlightenment values espoused here in the West.

A Muslim who is self-professed as being wholly Western in every way, shape or form, can at best be simply described as a person who believes in a God whilst being Western. To be Muslim is to adhere to Islam, a political as well as religious movement with a defined set of ideas and values that overlap its sects and variations, and direct every aspect of personal life. To be Muslim is not to just believe in a God, it is to believe in a certain way, to live a certain way, to think, act, feel, and behave a certain way.

And that is not the Western way. That is the Islamic way. Shariah law. Theocracy. Submission before God.

If a community exists with Islamic identity, then the advocacy of those things within that community is inevitable.

Islam is not a political movement that wants to take over.It has one message only that there is only one god but Allah and Muhammad(SAW) is his prophet.Islamic Identity is closer to Traditional European Values which are about being religious,respectful,modest etc. But Islam is quite distant from modern European values but traditional European values are also quite distant. The west doesn't really have set values these days as things that were previously taboo are now accepted and many values which the west used to hold dear are not applied anymore.
Even the conservative editor peter Hitchins says the same
" I have a lot of quarrels with Islam, but I, and many traditional British Christians like me, have a lot in common with Muslims.

We dislike the pressure on teenage girls to dress as sluts and get drunk, and the pressure on teenage boys to be oafish copies of football stars. We think it’s time the old were respected and cared for, not dumped and abandoned.

We’d much rather our children went on religious pilgrimages than to a Britney Spears concert."
So in many ways Islam is compatible
I have been to savile town which is 93% Asian and 66% Asian Muslim and it is true that it has become predominantly Asian and Muslim but Integration is always a two way street. In the 1950s and 1960s when many of savile town's Asian Muslim population came to this country they were not given the chance to integrate.When the Asian Muslims came to the UK the White British community became very vile and racist towards the Immigrants;having colour bars implemented,refusal to allow rooms to immigrants,having signs saying"No coloureds",throwing all sorts into immigrant houses and having Neo Nazis like the WDL,NF and skinheads attack non whites everyday.So why would any immigrant want to integrate into a culture which would rather him dead than in the country.If both communities made some effort;the Asian Muslim population adopting the host culture and the White British population accepting them then i would think this problem wouldn't have existed

[Thermodolia]

Dude I'm part-Jewish(Apparently on my dad's side. My mom could be lying and if she is I'll happily apologize but for right now it is and has been core to my identity.) so I say that more specifically for my case, as a Christian.

Also I dislike the Crusades blood-filled massacres of my people, the Jews, many of the crusaders were horrible people and makes me wonder if they truly achieved salvation.

Though they did attack the Seljuks who at the time were pretty intolerant, and hostile, and stopped Christian pilgrimages and maybe Jewish ones too.

Islam in general didn't stop them, just the Seljuks. So against the Seljuks they were justified in concept, but not not execution....

Oh god that was a horrible ironic pun about my own people being slaughtered, that was unintentional.


Anyway, I think Jesus said in a way to love people of all cultures no matter where they were from so I think multiculturalism is rooted in Christianity and Christians have fucked up failing to remember that for millennia. It is to me a very Christian value. Thus, I strongly support it.

I'm not talking about The Crusades on the Levant lol. The Crusades on... virtually the entirety of non-Christian Europe (Which, for a long time, was pretty much most of Northern Europe). Christians have had a habit of... not dealing with other cultures in their general vicinity very well. Muslims are kinda even worse, or would be if they had launched colonial expeditions.

Jews... I'll reserve my opinion about the Jews in this matter, because given the history they've had, they've never been in power long enough to show how they'd deal with other cultures in their general vicinity.

Jews in the diaspora tend to assimilate a bit into the main culture. Mainly so that they wouldn’t be spotted

[Thermodolia]

I am Canadian, yes.

The US is rather special since instead of countering increasing fundamentalist Islamists, they go even deeper with their own Christian nuttery, or engage in meaningless xenophobia without actually proposing a solution, such as a more stringent enforcement of secularism in my case.

That's fair, I'm not necessarily opposed to tougher stances on Islam if they're coming from a strictly secularist viewpoint. I personally would prefer state atheism, but would be totally fine with strict secularism. It just rustles my jimmies to see people get pissified about a reactionary regressive religious philosophy referring to it as an existential threat to modern civilization while at the same fine pushing another reactionary regressive religious philosophy that serves as an existential threat to modern civilization.

I’d prefer state secularism ala France. Religious headgear and religious wear is illegal, religion is either celebrated in your own home or your place of worship and nowhere else

[Thermodolia]

I'd argue that if Muslims abandon any and all radical ideals, dispose of the "quest to convert everybody to the truth" schmuckery, consider the state to be as important in secular matters as Allah is in religious matters, and drop their archaic thoughts of women, LGBT, etc...

Then they'd be a perfectly fine societal group.

The second one you're unlikely to get rid of. Universalizing religions continue to exist because of that drive. The rest? American Muslims have the aforementioned greater support for LGBT rights (hell, even Pakistan and Iran are actually not bad on Trans rights even if they're horrid everywhere else), American Muslims by and large are not more misogynistic than the population at large, American Muslims think of themselves as Americans first and Muslims second at greater rates than Christians, America America America A M E R I C A

Yo do know that Iran forces gay men to undergo gender reassignment surgeries right? Iran’s position on trans rights is down right atrocious

[The Land of the Ephyral]

One might want to look at Savile Town, Yorkshire.

93% Asian Muslim. The sect is Deobandi, which is an ultraconservative Sunni sect which defends the right to wage holy war in the so-called "defence" of Islam.

Deobandism controls around 50% of all mosques in the country, and trains around 80% of Islamic clerics in the country.

The people living in Savile Town are largely covered up. The men wear Arab-style robes, the women and girls in hijabs and niqabs. They advocate living as the Prophet Muhammad did, doing as he did, and not doing what he didn't do.

They have a Shariah court which typically handles divorce, and which the Home Secretary at the time Amber Rudd did not wish to regulate because it would 'legitimise' Shariah law, and the people there have absolutely no interest in living alongside anyone but their own people, going so far as to even try to buy a woman's house just days after her husband died.

I would wager for every example you can find of an Islamic community in the West with no, at least outwardly apparent wish, to impose their own beliefs, you can find one that does.

Islamic identity is fundamentally against Western identity. Its values, tenets, and core principles are not aligned in any way with those of the Enlightenment values espoused here in the West.

A Muslim who is self-professed as being wholly Western in every way, shape or form, can at best be simply described as a person who believes in a God whilst being Western. To be Muslim is to adhere to Islam, a political as well as religious movement with a defined set of ideas and values that overlap its sects and variations, and direct every aspect of personal life. To be Muslim is not to just believe in a God, it is to believe in a certain way, to live a certain way, to think, act, feel, and behave a certain way.

And that is not the Western way. That is the Islamic way. Shariah law. Theocracy. Submission before God.

If a community exists with Islamic identity, then the advocacy of those things within that community is inevitable.

Islam is not a political movement that wants to take over.It has one message only that there is only one god but Allah and Muhammad(SAW) is his prophet.Islamic Identity is closer to Traditional European Values which are about being religious,respectful,modest etc. But Islam is quite distant from modern European values but traditional European values are also quite distant. The west doesn't really have set values these days as things that were previously taboo are now accepted and many values which the west used to hold dear are not applied anymore.
Even the conservative editor peter Hitchins says the same
" I have a lot of quarrels with Islam, but I, and many traditional British Christians like me, have a lot in common with Muslims.

We dislike the pressure on teenage girls to dress as sluts and get drunk, and the pressure on teenage boys to be oafish copies of football stars. We think it’s time the old were respected and cared for, not dumped and abandoned.

We’d much rather our children went on religious pilgrimages than to a Britney Spears concert."
So in many ways Islam is compatible
I have been to savile town which is 93% Asian and 66% Asian Muslim and it is true that it has become predominantly Asian and Muslim but Integration is always a two way street. In the 1950s and 1960s when many of savile town's Asian Muslim population came to this country they were not given the chance to integrate.When the Asian Muslims came to the UK the White British community became very vile and racist towards the Immigrants;having colour bars implemented,refusal to allow rooms to immigrants,having signs saying"No coloureds",throwing all sorts into immigrant houses and having Neo Nazis like the WDL,NF and skinheads attack non whites everyday.So why would any immigrant want to integrate into a culture which would rather him dead than in the country.If both communities made some effort;the Asian Muslim population adopting the host culture and the White British population accepting them then i would think this problem wouldn't have existed

Islam's foundation was as a political state and polity encompassing a set identity group and waging war against every group that did not submit to it religiously or politically. It then imposed laws on its conquered peoples demanding they converted or die.

Islam was literally founded as a political movement trying to take over.

Muslims in a Muslim majority town acting as Islam instructs is in no way the result of the actions of white Britons and your attempt to suggest so is disgusting. Keep Islam out of the West.

[Page]

That's fair, I'm not necessarily opposed to tougher stances on Islam if they're coming from a strictly secularist viewpoint. I personally would prefer state atheism, but would be totally fine with strict secularism. It just rustles my jimmies to see people get pissified about a reactionary regressive religious philosophy referring to it as an existential threat to modern civilization while at the same fine pushing another reactionary regressive religious philosophy that serves as an existential threat to modern civilization.

I’d prefer state secularism ala France. Religious headgear and religious wear is illegal, religion is either celebrated in your own home or your place of worship and nowhere else

As much as I think the world would be better off without religion, suppression is not the way. Controlling people's clothing is a dangerous amount of power to give the state.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

I’d prefer state secularism ala France. Religious headgear and religious wear is illegal, religion is either celebrated in your own home or your place of worship and nowhere else

As much as I think the world would be better off without religion, suppression is not the way. Controlling people's clothing is a dangerous amount of power to give the state.

Face veils should be barred for the same reason you can't wear a balaclava in public.