NationStates

Most of us can all agree that Humans are the most intelligent creatures on Earth. No matter how intelligent we are, we don’t know how we compare ourselves to the rest of life in the universe (if there is any). Many scientists searching for alien life and the possibility of an alien visit to Earth use humans being classified at “intelligent” in their situational models. There really is no reason to believe that extraterrestrial life would consider Humans as being intelligent, and this is the problem that I have with scientists making possible alien scenarios based on the fact that aliens would consider us as being intelligent. I also noticed that the Human brain is the thing that classified itself as intelligent, with no real standard other than the “non-sentient animals" we have on Earth. I came up with a theorem:

Humans are only intelligent to themselves, and themselves only. All life has its own standard for classifying intelligence.

That was pretty thought-provoking, and also makes many paradoxes too. Feel free to discuss your thoughts and objection about it here.
(And no, I don’t think that the world is ruled by reptilians, please keep your conspiracies away from this thread)

Aureumterra wrote:Most of us can all agree that Humans are the most intelligent creatures on Earth. No matter how intelligent we are, we don’t know how we compare ourselves to the rest of life in the universe (if there is any). Many scientists searching for alien life and the possibility of an alien visit to Earth use humans being classified at “intelligent” in their situational models. There really is no reason to believe that extraterrestrial life would consider Humans as being intelligent, and this is the problem that I have with scientists making possible alien scenarios based on the fact that aliens would consider us as being intelligent.

The feeling is mutual. I am skeptical that there is much out there near our level of physiological development or technology. Probably bacteria or fungus at best.

Aureumterra wrote:I also noticed that the Human brain is the thing that classified itself as intelligent, with no real standard other than the “non-sentient animals" we have on Earth. I came up with a theorem:

Humans are only intelligent to themselves, and themselves only. All life has its own standard for classifying intelligence.

Perhaps, but wouldn't that apply to all lifeforms? As any living organism is accustomed its functions and senses, how could it conceive of something lesser, different, or greater when all it's ever known is what it's been limited to? How could an organism that is limited to flagellation and biochemical stimuli know what it would be like to have legs and five senses? Imagine trying to comprehend the experience of a slime mold's swarm intelligence or translate what it would be like not to have a central nervous system. I don't know that it would "compute" for us as we simply don't have those faculties that would allow it. It is a problem of perception, language, and/or physical translation. Even as we have gone through our own life cycle, what knowledge of being do we really retain other than what we are now? Do butterflies remember their caterpillar pals? Regardless of the limitations of cognitive tests that are designed and performed by us, would you agree that various levels of lifeforms in general have differing degrees of consciousness or awareness? Does intelligence mean that an organism operates in the most efficient manner it was designed for, or would it mean being able to actively remember, anticipate, predict, rather than just react?

If we meet an alien species that is has developed a proper civilization, why would they not see us and say that we have a civilization?

Internationalist Bastard wrote:If we meet an alien species that is has developed a proper civilization, why would they not see us and say that we have a civilization?

Do we say ants have a civilization? Ants have a system, hierarchy, and sufficient intelligence for an invertebrate, however, for us, we dont usually say they have a civilization. Advanced aliens might say the same about us.

Aureumterra wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:If we meet an alien species that is has developed a proper civilization, why would they not see us and say that we have a civilization?

Do we say ants have a civilization? Ants have a system, hierarchy, and sufficient intelligence for an invertebrate, however, for us, we cdont usually say they have a civilization. Advanced aliens might say the same about us.

Good point. To some, we may not even be sentient! These aliens could have just developed telepathic communication, and think that all who cannot communicate telepathically are not sentient, but animals, like we consider non-humans.

Aureumterra wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:If we meet an alien species that is has developed a proper civilization, why would they not see us and say that we have a civilization?

Do we say ants have a civilization? Ants have a system, hierarchy, and sufficient intelligence for an invertebrate, however, for us, we cdont usually say they have a civilization. Advanced aliens might say the same about us.

I do consider ants a civilization

The South Falls wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:Do we say ants have a civilization? Ants have a system, hierarchy, and sufficient intelligence for an invertebrate, however, for us, we cdont usually say they have a civilization. Advanced aliens might say the same about us.

Good point. To some, we may not even be sentient! These aliens could have just developed telepathic communication, and think that all who cannot communicate telepathically are not sentient, but animals, like we consider non-humans.

Ants might even consider themselves “sentient”. No one knows what goes on in their brains

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:Do we say ants have a civilization? Ants have a system, hierarchy, and sufficient intelligence for an invertebrate, however, for us, we cdont usually say they have a civilization. Advanced aliens might say the same about us.

I do consider ants a civilization

I agree, they are a civilization by definition. By our standards though, they’re animals, advanced aliens might say the same about us, like I said before.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I do consider ants a civilization

They certainly behave like our civilizations... breed, expand, conquer, enslave.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:If we meet an alien species that is has developed a proper civilization, why would they not see us and say that we have a civilization?

Ant civilization is impressive as far as heirarchy goes, but an alien would primarily be looking for global control, which humans have.

Aureumterra wrote:

The South Falls wrote:Good point. To some, we may not even be sentient! These aliens could have just developed telepathic communication, and think that all who cannot communicate telepathically are not sentient, but animals, like we consider non-humans.

Ants might even consider themselves “sentient”. No one knows what goes on in their brains

I always like to imagine they tell legends of the giants who crush them, poison them and burn then

Aureumterra wrote:

The South Falls wrote:Good point. To some, we may not even be sentient! These aliens could have just developed telepathic communication, and think that all who cannot communicate telepathically are not sentient, but animals, like we consider non-humans.

Ants might even consider themselves “sentient”. No one knows what goes on in their brains

They may, as they emit pheromones, and we don't rely on them for communication. That means that they could say that any method of communication is not sentient if it's not theirs. It's what I call: "The Bible Complex." It says that anything that you are not, is not considered good in anyway. Just like the Bible punished anyone who wasn't EXACTLY like Jesus. (Sorry if this is threadjack, it ties in.)

Hatterleigh wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:If we meet an alien species that is has developed a proper civilization, why would they not see us and say that we have a civilization?

Ant civilization is impressive as far as heirarchy goes, but an alien would primarily be looking for global control, which humans have.

By their standards, maybe they’re looking for star system control, and global control is a breadcrumb to them

Aureumterra wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I do consider ants a civilization

I agree, they are a civilization by definition. By our standards though, they’re animals, advanced aliens might say the same about us, like I said before.

I’d doubt that
While ants have a civilization it’s incredibly primitive. They dig there homes into the ground. They work with their natural appendages
While we may look primitive to them, we have giant steel buildings and guns. If their animals have those, then they just have a fucked perspective

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:I agree, they are a civilization by definition. By our standards though, they’re animals, advanced aliens might say the same about us, like I said before.

I’d doubt that
While ants have a civilization it’s incredibly primitive. They dig there homes into the ground. They work with their natural appendages
While we may look primitive to them, we have giant steel buildings and guns. If their animals have those, then they just have a fucked perspective

Try to imagine yourself as someone from a tier 4 civilization, in which guns and skyscrapers are stone age stuff to you

At least ants don't have their own little nukes.

Some kinds of ants do cultivate fungus, although some say it's more of a symbiosis.

And arguably, Human agriculture is a symbiosis as well. We eat them and they get to be spread all over the planet and beyond.

Aureumterra wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’d doubt that
While ants have a civilization it’s incredibly primitive. They dig there homes into the ground. They work with their natural appendages
While we may look primitive to them, we have giant steel buildings and guns. If their animals have those, then they just have a fucked perspective

Try to imagine yourself as someone from a tier 4 civilization, in which guns and skyscrapers are stone age stuff to you

Is consider them a Stone Age society
If ants were running around using stone clubs and grass huts we’d consider them much more of a society

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:I agree, they are a civilization by definition. By our standards though, they’re animals, advanced aliens might say the same about us, like I said before.

I’d doubt that
While ants have a civilization it’s incredibly primitive. They dig there homes into the ground. They work with their natural appendages
While we may look primitive to them, we have giant steel buildings and guns. If their animals have those, then they just have a fucked perspective

Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:Try to imagine yourself as someone from a tier 4 civilization, in which guns and skyscrapers are stone age stuff to you

Is consider them a Stone Age society
If ants were running around using stone clubs and grass huts we’d consider them much more of a society

From our perspective, they are primitive, but maybe from theirs, we are primitive.

The South Falls wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’d doubt that
While ants have a civilization it’s incredibly primitive. They dig there homes into the ground. They work with their natural appendages
While we may look primitive to them, we have giant steel buildings and guns. If their animals have those, then they just have a fucked perspective

Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

They might think that cars are large animals, and all human stuff is actually natural.

The South Falls wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’d doubt that
While ants have a civilization it’s incredibly primitive. They dig there homes into the ground. They work with their natural appendages
While we may look primitive to them, we have giant steel buildings and guns. If their animals have those, then they just have a fucked perspective

Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Is consider them a Stone Age society
If ants were running around using stone clubs and grass huts we’d consider them much more of a society

From our perspective, they are primitive, but maybe from theirs, we are primitive.

Then these theoretical aliens are just terrible at observing things
We build buildings every day around the world

Aureumterra wrote:

The South Falls wrote:Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

They might think that cars are large animals, and all human stuff is actually natural.

They could, at which point we would be much less than them. We are intelligent to only ourselves. I agree with your theory, for the ant reasons.

Aureumterra wrote:

The South Falls wrote:Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

They might think that cars are large animals, and all human stuff is actually natural.

Again, then they are and at observation. They could easily see us building these

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

The South Falls wrote:Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

From our perspective, they are primitive, but maybe from theirs, we are primitive.

Then these theoretical aliens are just terrible at observing things
We build buildings every day around the world

He’s talking about ants, the aliens are the ones who think we’re pre-stone age chimpanzees

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:They might think that cars are large animals, and all human stuff is actually natural.

Again, then they are and at observation. They could easily see us building these

How might an ant comprehend that a house being by machines is human-run?

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

The South Falls wrote:Well look at it this way. Since they haven't gone in to one of our giant steel buildings, and those that did were smashed to pieces, they may think that it was not built by us. This then means that they would think we had nothing, and were primitive, while they had hills, and food, and things, which would be better than our nothing.

From our perspective, they are primitive, but maybe from theirs, we are primitive.

Then these theoretical aliens are just terrible at observing things
We build buildings every day around the world

Right, but do they even know what a 'human' is, or is considered?

Aureumterra wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Then these theoretical aliens are just terrible at observing things
We build buildings every day around the world

He’s talking about ants, the aliens are the ones who think we’re pre-stone age chimpanzees

So are the ants, sorta.