Iceland To Ban Male Circumcision

[Fartsniffage]

So banning circumcision can seperate the wheat from the chaff in terms of those religious people willing to abide by secular law in the Jewish and Muslim communities by having those that can't flip their shit, ignore it, or leave?

And this is... your argument against the notion?

It's not abuse, and rarely ever is it dangerous. There is no pressing need to ban it, and indeed it would only serve as a major inconvenience to millions of people with no real benefits.

Unless you happen to be one of the 100 or so babies per year in the US who die because of non-medically indicated surgery. I would imagine they would feel that there is a need to ban it. But they never get to that point, because they're dead. But I guess they don't count because we never get to hear their voice, they don't live long enough to speak on their own behalf.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Again, I have never felt anything different before and after (aside from minor, non-issue changes).

It might be different for certain people, though.

You were having sex before the age of 10?

I meant masturbation, which is still sexual stimulation/function.

[Viktorika]

Ah, that’s great to hear.

[Galloism]

The brain is a fascinating organ. It can compensate for things missing in amazing ways on the fly.

My left wrist now only turns half as far as it did before I got Keinbock's disease and had a corrective surgery. The brain makes adjustments to my rotation on my elbow and shoulder so that I don't even notice it anymore.

Yet, objectively, my wrist is less functional than before I got Keinbock's disease.

Placebo or not, I'm content with my current sexual functions.

And I was circumsized at 10 years old, and I was already experimenting with my own body a full year and a half before the surgery, and again, nothing of actual harm or complication happened, I was doing just fine.

I'm glad you're content. Really.

However, I'm still not sure why we should be allowing people to cut up the genitals of infants without pressing medical need.

[Salus Maior]

It is not a difficult conclusion to come to, and most of you have already admitted that you're fine with discriminating against religion if they do something you disagree with. You just avoid from saying so in a straightforward and plain manner.

At any rate, it is not a leap to think that regardless of intentions, a legislation that negatively effects certain group is de facto discriminating against that group. In fact, to argue that it isn't is allowing a legal loophole to exist where certain groups can push for discrimination against other groups so long as they dress up the legislation the right way. Which is obviously dangerous thinking.

It's not discrimination if it's applied equally.

Except not everyone views circumcision equally do they? Clearly one group suffers more from the legislation than others.

[Galloism]

It's not discrimination if it's applied equally.

Except not everyone views circumcision equally do they? Clearly one group suffers more from the legislation than others.

One group benefits more too - namely children.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

It would benefit boys who want intact foreskins.

Does your lack of foreskin keep you up at night? Do you need psychiatric help? If that is the case, that you have far more deep seated issues than circumcision.

I have neither foreskin nor penis. I do have a clitoral hood, and I'm quite happy no one cut it off. I don't know whether I'd be upset if someone had.

[Godular]

It's not discrimination if it's applied equally.

Except not everyone views circumcision equally do they? Clearly one group suffers more from the legislation than others.

If it's too much of an imposition to wait to indoctrinate the kiddos with permanent disfigurement, maybe one should reexamine the policy.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Placebo or not, I'm content with my current sexual functions.

And I was circumsized at 10 years old, and I was already experimenting with my own body a full year and a half before the surgery, and again, nothing of actual harm or complication happened, I was doing just fine.

I'm glad you're content. Really.

However, I'm still not sure why we should be allowing people to cut up the genitals of infants without pressing medical need.

Neither do I, since I support a strictly medical stance.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Is male circumcision really abuse? Can we actually just consider that for a moment?

the definition of abuse is: to use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.

Is cutting the foreskin ( an necessary part of the human body ) off at birth ( an event which will be forgotten almost instantly ) really abuse? I know some people have noted how circumcision can kill, but this is an extremely rare instance.
According to this site, about 119 people die each year from circumcision related deaths, out of around 4 million males born each year ( American numbers ). If we divide 119 by 4 million, we find that a male has a 0.00002975% chance of dying as a baby from circumcision. We can expect similar numbers to exist in Iceland, which would make such instances insanely rare.

So, we have found that cutting the foreskin is not a great loss for the child, not a traumatic experience for the inflicted party, and very rarely is ever fatal. And, as they are a child, they cannot consent so that decision would go to their parents.

No, this is not abuse.

http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptio ... n.html#s10 (warning, graphics images)
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... ly-believe
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... e-and-stds

This refutes nothing. No where did I say that the matter was not painful. I imagine it's quite painful. However, for the vast ( VAST ) majority of cases, any complications are quite rare. I will state my point once more, there is no need to ban circumcision and to inconvenience millions of people.

[Fartsniffage]

You were having sex before the age of 10?

I meant masturbation, which is still sexual stimulation/function.

Good for you. But masturbation and sexual intercourse are not the same thing.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's not discrimination if it's applied equally.

Except not everyone views circumcision equally do they? Clearly one group suffers more from the legislation than others.

Fine fuck it, let's go consistent with this principle.

Drugs.
Prostitution.
hell, rape, murder.
Violent revolution against the bourgeoisie, that's a good one.
Workers appropriating the means of production and telling their CEOs to fuck off and not come back after pinching the keys to the factory.
Crusades.
Holocausts.
Country music.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptio ... n.html#s10 (warning, graphics images)
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... ly-believe
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... e-and-stds

This refutes nothing. No where did I say that the matter was not painful. I imagine it's quite painful. However, for the vast ( VAST ) majority of cases, any complications are quite rare. I will state my point once more, there is no need to ban circumcision and to inconvenience millions of people.

Needlessly causing pain to children shouldn't be illegal?
That's a step above the usual "I smack em when they do wrong" stuff too. Vast majority of child beatings don't kill the kid, and nominally they did something to "Deserve it" rather than it being arbitrary harm.

Do you want child beating illegal, or just child cutting?

[Amitris]

Violation of religious freedom

[Galloism]

I'm glad you're content. Really.

However, I'm still not sure why we should be allowing people to cut up the genitals of infants without pressing medical need.

Neither do I, since I support a strictly medical stance.

I'll agree with that. If pressing medical need is there, I have no problem with circumcision in that circumstance.

Just like I wouldn't allow parents to cut off a child's finger if the finger was normal and healthy, but if it was NOT normal and healthy and will do nothing but cause further medical problems, then it's ok to amputate it. Pay attention sometimes - you'll see people with four fingers not irregularly who had the pinky cut off at birth because it didn't develop.

This is ok. What's not ok is cutting off the pinky just because you want to or for religious reasons.

[Fartsniffage]

This refutes nothing. No where did I say that the matter was not painful. I imagine it's quite painful. However, for the vast ( VAST ) majority of cases, any complications are quite rare. I will state my point once more, there is no need to ban circumcision and to inconvenience millions of people.

Causing pain to children shouldn't be illegal?

*bets that spanking will be brought up*

[Republic of the Cristo]

Does your lack of foreskin keep you up at night? Do you need psychiatric help? If that is the case, that you have far more deep seated issues than circumcision.

I have neither foreskin nor penis. I do have a clitoral hood, and I'm quite happy no one cut it off. I don't know whether I'd be upset if someone had.

As an adult you do not have control over how your parents raised you as a child. So long as they were not abusive or negligent than generally we can assume them decent parents. My circumcision was not a result of my parents abuse, nor I am sure, is it a sign of the abuse of millions of other men. It is a matter of being raised by our parents, and we are not worse off for it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Causing pain to children shouldn't be illegal?

*bets that spanking will be brought up*

Muh edits.

[Galloism]

http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptio ... n.html#s10 (warning, graphics images)
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... ly-believe
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo ... e-and-stds

This refutes nothing. No where did I say that the matter was not painful. I imagine it's quite painful. However, for the vast ( VAST ) majority of cases, any complications are quite rare. I will state my point once more, there is no need to ban circumcision and to inconvenience millions of people.

I do not mind inconveniencing genital mutilators.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

You've made this claim once already (and you didn't reply when I challenged it). Repeating it doesn't make it any less wrong.

Interestingly, you seem to be the one with discriminatory views here.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6815000238

As it says in the article, women who have suffered female circumcision are likely to suffer from genital infections and reopening of the wounds throughout their life, and causes complications to things like childbirth as well.

As opposed to male circumcision, which can have complications immediately following the circumcision depending on how it was done, but after that one lives completely normal with minimal quality of life issues. At least not compared to what women suffer with FGM.

The study is entirely irrelevant, since it doesn't even acknowledge the form of female circumcision analogous to male circumcision. This has been pointed out to you again and again, so until you make an effort to engage that point, I'm just gonna make snarky comments at you, 'kay?*

*well, actually, I'm going to go to bed. But if you're still somehow avoiding the point in the morning, I'll snark then.

[Republic of the Cristo]

This refutes nothing. No where did I say that the matter was not painful. I imagine it's quite painful. However, for the vast ( VAST ) majority of cases, any complications are quite rare. I will state my point once more, there is no need to ban circumcision and to inconvenience millions of people.

Needlessly causing pain to children shouldn't be illegal?
That's a step above the usual "I smack em when they do wrong" stuff too. Vast majority of child beatings don't kill the kid, and nominally they did something to "Deserve it" rather than it being arbitrary harm.

Do you want child beating illegal, or just child cutting?

I am all for spanking children. Sometimes I think it is necessary. No, the vast majority of children who were spanked as a kid did not wind up murdering their parents. Just as circumcision does not typically lead to death and for millions of people is actually necessary for their faith.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So if I decided according to my religion, you needed to have your nose cut off in infancy, that's A-ok.

Well... child isn't too injured by it, and it's a sign of entering a religious group, soooooo sure?

Stuff gets strangely weird when you replace bit of genitalia with other body parts.

Also, if a sufficient amount of anesthesia and professional surgery is used, I personally don't see anything wrong if I ignore the "that's very weird" thought in my head right now

[Salus Maior]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6815000238

As it says in the article, women who have suffered female circumcision are likely to suffer from genital infections and reopening of the wounds throughout their life, and causes complications to things like childbirth as well.

As opposed to male circumcision, which can have complications immediately following the circumcision depending on how it was done, but after that one lives completely normal with minimal quality of life issues. At least not compared to what women suffer with FGM.

Then I assume this is also ok? Just want to be clear and consistent on things.



Because she's facing charges right now.

It doesn't say how old the girl was, aside from mentioning another case where the girl was 2 when her Dad came at her with scissors. At any rate, this doesn't debunk the negative effects I mentioned, and how they are greater than male circumcision. In fact your article stated the same, how cutting off the clitoris was equivalent to cutting off the head of a penis rather than the foreskin.

[Ostroeuropa]

Needlessly causing pain to children shouldn't be illegal?
That's a step above the usual "I smack em when they do wrong" stuff too. Vast majority of child beatings don't kill the kid, and nominally they did something to "Deserve it" rather than it being arbitrary harm.

Do you want child beating illegal, or just child cutting?

I am all for spanking children. Sometimes I think it is necessary. No, the vast majority of children who were spanked as a kid did not wind up murdering their parents. Just as circumcision does not typically lead to death and for millions of people is actually necessary for their faith.

Let's set that aside for the moment.
Do you think it's fine for parents to beat their children for no discernible reason, when they did nothing to "deserve" it.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I meant masturbation, which is still sexual stimulation/function.

Good for you. But masturbation and sexual intercourse are not the same thing.

They are not completely alien to eachother, but I never stated they were identical.