Iceland To Ban Male Circumcision

[Ecleptalia]

Which Probably makes it easier for them to ban the practice.

Yeah. IIRC, Iceland has one of the highest atheism rates in the world, and is also one of the most socially progressive societies, so they're not going to face nearly as much public outcry as the US would.

Aah, Iceland. So amazing in every way.

[Elysian Kentarchy]

Which Probably makes it easier for them to ban the practice.

Yeah. IIRC, Iceland has one of the highest atheism rates in the world, and is also one of the most socially progressive societies, so they're not going to face nearly as much public outcry as the US would.

Well they successfully eradicated down syndrome in their country via murder I mean abortion so yeah I would have to agree they have an easier time.

[Ostroeuropa]

Good news. A culture of child sacrifice and mutilation should not be tolerated. Hopefully we'll see these measures continue to gain steam across the world. When a culture practices circumcision, they practice child sacrifice. Around 200 infants a year in the US die from this practice. It's not much different from leaving children outside in the cold until the weakest or unluckiest 200 drop dead then bringing them all in, then arguing it doesn't harm them that it was done.
Except there, there would not be permanent mutilation and scarring attached.

When the god of the Judaics told Abraham circumcision was a stand in for child sacrifice as a cultural practice, he was being economical with the truth. Or, more likely, Abraham or his chroniclers were thinking from a bronze age medical perspective, and didn't understand the wider implications of the ritual.

Not all Jews do the ritual. Not all Judaics do even, with at least some opting for alternative rituals, and not all Muslims or Christians do it either. Not that this would matter, it simply means outlawing a section of a culture rather than the entirety of it.

[Ecleptalia]

Yeah. IIRC, Iceland has one of the highest atheism rates in the world, and is also one of the most socially progressive societies, so they're not going to face nearly as much public outcry as the US would.

Well they successfully eradicated down syndrome in their country via murder I mean abortion so yeah I would have to agree they have an easier time.

Please do not start a war about abortion in this thread. It was going so well!

[Kubumba Tribe]

threadjack, guys. We're not talking about kosher or halal. we're talking about male circumcision

Probably because circumcision impacts both Judaic and Islamic practices and therefore it is fair game to discuss when the state will come after those practices too since they are already attacking one. Just my guess on how we got to this point anyway. Though since I one time participated in a discussion about doughnuts and before ten minutes was out my table mates were having a religious debate I am used to such shifts in conversation randomly.

Circumcision isn't really an Islamic practice

Good news. A culture of child sacrifice and mutilation should not be tolerated. Hopefully we'll see these measures continue to gain steam across the world. When a culture practices circumcision, they practice child sacrifice. Around 200 infants a year in the US die from this practice. It's not much different from leaving children outside in the cold until the weakest or unluckiest 200 drop dead then bringing them all in, then arguing it doesn't harm them that it was done.
Except there, there would not be permanent mutilation and scarring attached.

When the god of the Judaics told Abraham circumcision was a stand in for child sacrifice as a cultural practice, he was being economical with the truth. Or, more likely, Abraham or his chroniclers were thinking from a bronze age medical perspective, and didn't understand the wider implications of the ritual.

Circumcision isn't child sacrifice, it's cutting off the foreskin

[Ostroeuropa]

Probably because circumcision impacts both Judaic and Islamic practices and therefore it is fair game to discuss when the state will come after those practices too since they are already attacking one. Just my guess on how we got to this point anyway. Though since I one time participated in a discussion about doughnuts and before ten minutes was out my table mates were having a religious debate I am used to such shifts in conversation randomly.

Circumcision isn't really an Islamic practice

Good news. A culture of child sacrifice and mutilation should not be tolerated. Hopefully we'll see these measures continue to gain steam across the world. When a culture practices circumcision, they practice child sacrifice. Around 200 infants a year in the US die from this practice. It's not much different from leaving children outside in the cold until the weakest or unluckiest 200 drop dead then bringing them all in, then arguing it doesn't harm them that it was done.
Except there, there would not be permanent mutilation and scarring attached.

When the god of the Judaics told Abraham circumcision was a stand in for child sacrifice as a cultural practice, he was being economical with the truth. Or, more likely, Abraham or his chroniclers were thinking from a bronze age medical perspective, and didn't understand the wider implications of the ritual.

Circumcision isn't child sacrifice, it's cutting off the foreskin

If there was a temple and you did to all of them at once, knowing some would die, it would be far more clear to you. Why does prolonging the ritual change matters for you? Every year, in the US alone, 200ish children die from it. That's with moder medicine and science. Cast that projection backwards thousands of years and calculate how many dead children result from the practice.

It absolutely is a matter of child sacrifice, child mutilation, and adherence to dogmatic religious views that are anti-thetical to human wellbeing.

There may even be more dead Jews from circumcision than the holocaust. In terms of impact on the numbers of current Jews, Abraham is undoubtedly the bigger culprit, given the tendency to multiply over time.

(A dead baby 3000 years ago could amount to hundreds or thousands of modern people, compared to dozens for a dead baby from 1945.)

[Elysian Kentarchy]

Yes because I had it done and I am 100% fine. I live my life like any normal person.

That's because you don't know what it's like to not be circumcised. Your brain perceives it as normal.

Please go and reread everything Thermodolia said in this thread before spouting that garbage, because you are simply repeating why circumcised men hate the anti-circumcision movement because said movement is a bunch of men insecure about their dicks and acting superior to circumcised men or other people that want to find some issue men can feel victimized over instead of actual issues concerning men, that goes for anyone else pushing that nonsense. Please and thank you.

[Ecleptalia]

Circumcision isn't really an Islamic practice

Circumcision isn't child sacrifice, it's cutting off the foreskin

If there was a temple and you did to all of them at once, knowing some would die, it would be far more clear to you. Why does prolonging the ritual change matters for you? Every year, in the US alone, 200ish children die from it. That's with moder medicine and science. Cast that projection backwards thousands of years and calculate how many dead children result from the practice.

It absolutely is a matter of child sacrifice, child mutilation, and adherence to dogmatic religious views that are anti-thetical to human wellbeing.

There may even be more dead Jews from circumcision than the holocaust.

200 is a very small amount. Thousands people die from firearms each year, and are we worried about that?

[Ostroeuropa]

If there was a temple and you did to all of them at once, knowing some would die, it would be far more clear to you. Why does prolonging the ritual change matters for you? Every year, in the US alone, 200ish children die from it. That's with moder medicine and science. Cast that projection backwards thousands of years and calculate how many dead children result from the practice.

It absolutely is a matter of child sacrifice, child mutilation, and adherence to dogmatic religious views that are anti-thetical to human wellbeing.

There may even be more dead Jews from circumcision than the holocaust.

200 is a very small amount. Thousands people die from firearms each year, and are we worried about that?

It's an entirely unnecessary practice.
If instead, once a year, society supported a knife wielding maniac going into a school and massacring every child therein, then let them walk away with no charges, it would be an appalling culture. Why does spreading it out over the year change matters for you?

I do care about gun deaths, but there at least, it's arguably that there are positive applications for them. Circumcision kills more than terrorism, most years, and yet here we are.

I don't support banning knives, I support cutting and killing children being illegal. Same as shooting someone should be.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

If there was a temple and you did to all of them at once, knowing some would die, it would be far more clear to you. Why does prolonging the ritual change matters for you? Every year, in the US alone, 200ish children die from it. That's with moder medicine and science. Cast that projection backwards thousands of years and calculate how many dead children result from the practice.

It absolutely is a matter of child sacrifice, child mutilation, and adherence to dogmatic religious views that are anti-thetical to human wellbeing.

There may even be more dead Jews from circumcision than the holocaust.

200 is a very small amount. Thousands people die from firearms each year, and are we worried about that?

I mean, some Americans are. Others, bizarrely, are not. I daresay most Western nations would be worried if they had a firearm death rate on the level of the USA's, though.

[Ostroeuropa]

200 is a very small amount. Thousands people die from firearms each year, and are we worried about that?

I mean, some Americans are. Others, bizarrely, are not. I daresay most Western nations would be worried if they had a firearm death rate on the level of the USA's, though.

It's also a false equivalence. I don't support banning knives, just banning cutting and killing children. Shooting children is already illegal.

[Ecleptalia]

I mean, some Americans are. Others, bizarrely, are not. I daresay most Western nations would be worried if they had a firearm death rate on the level of the USA's, though.

It's also a false equivalence. I don't support banning knives, just banning cutting and killing children. Shooting children is already illegal.

What I'm saying is more people are affected by that, so that is what we should focus our efforts on

[Community Values]

As it should be.
Is there any reason why the religious freedoms trumps the freedom of a kid not to get part of his dick cut off?

[Ecleptalia]

As it should be.
Is there any reason why the religious freedoms trumps the freedom of a kid not to get part of his dick cut off?

In the state where I live, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IS LEGAL! Think about that for a bit!

[Ostroeuropa]

It's also a false equivalence. I don't support banning knives, just banning cutting and killing children. Shooting children is already illegal.

What I'm saying is more people are affected by that, so that is what we should focus our efforts on

In terms of funding for catching criminals, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that some funding should be put towards the other, especially when you include the guaranteed mutilation that occurs.

Thousands of victims of assault, and hundreds of murders, each year, entirely legal. That should change, and the existence of some other set of murders and assaults doesn't alter that. You're arguing over resource application, not the principle that both should be illegal.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

It's also a false equivalence. I don't support banning knives, just banning cutting and killing children. Shooting children is already illegal.

What I'm saying is more people are affected by that, so that is what we should focus our efforts on

More people will be affected by climate change than circumcision and guns combined. We should focus our efforts on climate change.

[Ecleptalia]

What I'm saying is more people are affected by that, so that is what we should focus our efforts on

More people will be affected by climate change than circumcision and guns combined. We should focus our efforts on climate change.

Finally, some sense!

[Community Values]

As it should be.
Is there any reason why the religious freedoms trumps the freedom of a kid not to get part of his dick cut off?

In the state where I live, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IS LEGAL! Think about that for a bit!

Okay, I thought about it.
But why?

[Katganistan]

I agree, it's good news.



This positive change coudn't happen without Feminism preparing it, it would never had been possible without Feminism and our battle against FGM.
And you know it, it would be nice if you would admit it.



Yes.



Against muslims? Why?
That's impossible: circumcision isn't compulsory for muslims, though it's usually recommended by most imams.
Furthermore muslims can get circumcision at every age, so it cannot be a major issue for them.

Since the goal is supposed to be to show their faith, some little more pain shouldn't be a problem, right? .



Everything carries some minor risks - properly done very simple surgeries doesn't involve much risk.



Newborn babies knows nothing about God, they know nothing about the Torah and the Talmud, they cannot even speak, they don't understand your words: how they can "show their covenant with God"?
Such concept is a concept for adults, or at least for teens, not for newborn babies.

I've never seen any feminists advocate against MGM. Only FGM.

Several of us are advocating about it in this very thread. Perhaps you've not been aware of who and who is not a feminist.

[Katganistan]

Once a person has braces, the original place of the teeth can’t be restored, so it is irreversivle.

Not at all. Further braces can move the teeth back.

And if you don't wear your retainer, your teeth do move back.

[Katganistan]

Circumcising a newborn baby Jew is against freedom of religion: it's against his freedom of religion, because it's forcing the parents' religion on him.

So should parents not be allowed to baptize their children or take them to church with them?

Don't be daft, sprinkling water or dabbing chrism on the baby does not cut pieces off their body. It is not an invasive surgery.

[Vassenor]

Not at all. Further braces can move the teeth back.

And if you don't wear your retainer, your teeth do move back.

Like mine did.

[Katganistan]

The proposal is wrong, I think we should keep circumcision legal in all cases, religious or aesthetical.

I think that's fine for adults who can consent to it, but not for children to have it imposed on them.

[Katganistan]

What's the difference between a child killed in the womb them essentially taken out through the same method as a birth, and the next day a child that was born? What's the point in killing it if it is already easily capable of life outside the womb? There is no difference.

You claim to be a christian.
Then why are you defending circumcision since Jesus criticized it?

New International Version
Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man's whole body on the Sabbath?

New Living Translation
For if the correct time for circumcising your son falls on the Sabbath, you go ahead and do it so as not to break the law of Moses. So why should you be angry with me for healing a man on the Sabbath?

English Standard Version
If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man’s whole body well?

Berean Study Bible
If a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, why are you angry with Me for making the whole man well on the Sabbath?

Berean Literal Bible
If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses might not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man entirely sound on the Sabbath?

New American Standard Bible
"If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath?

King James Bible
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Christian Standard Bible
If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses won't be broken, are you angry at me because I made a man entirely well on the Sabbath?

Contemporary English Version
in order to obey the Law of Moses. Why are you angry with me for making someone completely well on the Sabbath?

Good News Translation
If a boy is circumcised on the Sabbath so that Moses' Law is not broken, why are you angry with me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses won't be broken, are you angry at Me because I made a man entirely well on the Sabbath?

International Standard Version
If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because I made a man perfectly well on the Sabbath?

NET Bible
But if a male child is circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses is not broken, why are you angry with me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?

New Heart English Bible
If a boy receives circumcision on the Sabbath, that the Law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me, because I made a man completely healthy on the Sabbath?

That's John 7:23 - Jesus contrasting circumcision to healing.

Um, he's saying if it's ok to circumcize on the Sabbath, why are the complaining about his healing on the Sabbath. He's not directly criticizing it. He's criticizing their definition of "work", which is not allowed on the Sabbath.

However, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish neighborhood I live and work in, they readily will drive cars and call ambulances if one's life or health is in danger on the Sabbath.

Christ was pointing out the hypocrisy, not saying "circumcision is bad".

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Circumcision isn't really an Islamic practice

Circumcision isn't child sacrifice, it's cutting off the foreskin

If there was a temple and you did to all of them at once, knowing some would die, it would be far more clear to you. Why does prolonging the ritual change matters for you? Every year, in the US alone, 200ish children die from it. That's with moder medicine and science. Cast that projection backwards thousands of years and calculate how many dead children result from the practice.

It absolutely is a matter of child sacrifice, child mutilation, and adherence to dogmatic religious views that are anti-thetical to human wellbeing.

There may even be more dead Jews from circumcision than the holocaust. In terms of impact on the numbers of current Jews, Abraham is undoubtedly the bigger culprit, given the tendency to multiply over time.

(A dead baby 3000 years ago could amount to hundreds or thousands of modern people, compared to dozens for a dead baby from 1945.)

Sacrifice is intended to kill. Circumcision isn't supposed to kill babies, the fact that that happens is an anomaly and not supposed to happen.
Circumcision is not sacrifice because parents aren't trying to kill their children for the sake of God (SWT).