Iceland To Ban Male Circumcision

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

I already told you that.

[Hamidiye]

Why is there such a discussion on the matter? No, you may not cut off a part of your baby. End of story.

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

Ah, but of course! To deny that freedom to them would be truly inhuman. [/s]

[Camicon]

I have a new goal in life.

I imagine just a letter to Franny would suffice. He seems like an all round good egg.

I was planning something much more extravagant involving ziplines, cable drops, and exposed butt cheeks.

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

I already told you that.

Then quote yourself.

[Galloism]

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

I already told you that.

You said doing it to my neighbor is the crime of assault (actually it's battery, but i digress). I know that.

I'm asking WHY it's a crime, when forcing it on children is ok. IE, why is the law the way that it is. Saying "that's what the law is" is not an answer.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

Ah, but of course! To deny that freedom to them would be truly inhuman. [/s]

Idk what the hyperbole (underlined), sarcasm, and rofl are for, but no, it wouldn't be inhuman. It just wouldn't be right

Then quote yourself.

Why.
How far does "My religion told me to do it" go as an excuse for you?

You mean "a reason"?
Up until people start killing each other, or serious torture (which, according to my links on circumcision, arguably, circumcision is torture).

[Risottia]

The Catholic Church used to accept debaptism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debaptism
Now they've dedebaptismed against their will people who debaptismed.

The ways of magic are truly mysterious.

Not that mysterious.

What have in common Gandalf, the Pope, Albus Dumbledore, Godric Gryffindor and Elminster?

A funny hat. IT'S THE HAT I TELL YOU!

[Ifreann]

The ways of magic are truly mysterious.

Not that mysterious.

What have in common Gandalf, the Pope, Albus Dumbledore, Godric Gryffindor and Elminster?

A funny hat. IT'S THE HAT I TELL YOU!

I can find no fault in your logic.

[Lockdownn]

Let me just ask you this, would you be okay with the removal of an eyeball at birth just because the religion your parents are in requires it?

Being circumcized I can't, ahem, see an equivilance here. Neither can you, since consensual circumcision you surely have no problem with, but would probably object strongly to consensual blinding

The thing is, you can live without either. My point is that mutilating for no medical necessity is illogical. An argument for circumcision is that it prevents infection; how would it not be the same to remove an eye for the possibility of infection as well?

[Camicon]

Then quote yourself.

You mean "a reason"?
Up until people start killing each other, or serious torture (which, according to my links on circumcision, arguably, circumcision is torture).

That's not a reason which would justify the difference between forcibly circumcising a child and forcibly circumcising an adult.

Try again.

[Lockdownn]

Ah, but of course! To deny that freedom to them would be truly inhuman. [/s]

Idk what the hyperbole (underlined), sarcasm, and rofl are for, but no, it wouldn't be inhuman. It just wouldn't be right

Then quote yourself.

You mean "a reason"?
Up until people start killing each other, or serious torture (which, according to my links on circumcision, arguably, circumcision is torture).

It isn't just torture, it's mutilation.

[Gellenest]

"Unsustainable" is a very interesting word choice. It implies that Judiasm and Islam will completely fall apart and cease to exist if they are no longer able to mutilate infants. That seems like something of a stretch. And anyways, even if it's true, do we really want religions that require infant mutilation?

"Do we really want Jews around?"

Do we?

[Hamidiye]

Ah, but of course! To deny that freedom to them would be truly inhuman. [/s]

Idk what the hyperbole (underlined), sarcasm, and rofl are for, but no, it wouldn't be inhuman. It just wouldn't be right

Oh, sorry. But mutilating children I cannot condone, not evenn for religions.

[Cekoviu]

"Do we really want Jews around?"

Do we?

Yes.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Idk what the hyperbole (underlined), sarcasm, and rofl are for, but no, it wouldn't be inhuman. It just wouldn't be right

Oh, sorry.

It's cool

But mutilating children I cannot condone, not evenn for religions.

From what I've read about circumcision on babies, me neither. But it's what Jews have to do.

[Kramanica]

Oh, sorry.

It's cool

But mutilating children I cannot condone, not evenn for religions.

From what I've read about circumcision on babies, me neither. But it's what Jews have to do.

Nobody has to do anything. The Torah doesn't mind control us and force us to do it.

[Ors Might]

Oh, sorry.

It's cool

But mutilating children I cannot condone, not evenn for religions.

From what I've read about circumcision on babies, me neither. But it's what Jews have to do.

Well then we have a problem. We can’t let people mutilate babies but apparently Jews can’t not mutilate them. I’m not sure that I entirely buy that, given that religions change constantly given enough time. But assuming that it’s truly a necessity to their faith, well, that’s a problem. The state has to protect the rights of every citizen, regardless of age. If a child is being abused, which mutilation is, then it has an interest in putting a stop to that. If Jews have to mutilate their children, then the State has no choice but to be at odds with them.

[Berdan]

Am I the only circumcised Athiest who is getting tired of illiterate arguments like

which, according to my links on circumcision, arguably, circumcision is torture

when that's just a downright incorrect and illiterate argument against something with lots of actual and genuine reasons to stop the practice? And I'm inclined against the constant "It's mutilation!" argument as well, considering the number of 9 year olds with ear piercings that can get infected when literally all circumcision did to me is make me immune to getting smegma and make it a tiny bit easier to masturbate.

Should circumcision stop being practiced on children? Very much so. However this constant emotional crusade against it needs to stop before we can present the legitimate reasons for circumcision being an archaic practice that doesnt really hold many the medical benefits it was thought to.

[Senkaku]

Where did you get the silly idea your consent matters ?

*takes liver*

Foreskin is something you don’t need, though it does hurt to remove it. Taking the liver will kill you. Therefore this is false equivalence. You could say it’d be like taking someone’s appendix.

In principle, it's the same.

And you'd be surprised by how much liver you can remove without killing someone, actually.

Am I the only circumcised Athiest who is getting tired of illiterate arguments like

which, according to my links on circumcision, arguably, circumcision is torture

when that's just a downright incorrect and illiterate argument against something with lots of actual and genuine reasons to stop the practice?

*raises hand* No.

[/quote]And I'm inclined against the constant "It's mutilation!" argument as well, considering the number of 9 year olds with ear piercings that can get infected[/quote]
Well, you're wrong there. Ear piercings are very much a voluntary procedure, I wouldn't say it's comparable. And it is, almost by definition, mutilation, even if it doesn't generally have any serious consequences.

Should circumcision stop being practiced on children? Very much so. However this constant emotional crusade against it needs to stop before we can present the legitimate reasons for circumcision being an archaic practice that doesnt really hold many the medical benefits it was thought to.

I think it's fair to point out that in principle it's no different from FGM or chopping off someone's left pinky for religious reasons without their consent. They're illustrative examples, you don't have to read emotion into them.

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

Because reasons, Gallo, something something God, ok?

Why is there such a discussion on the matter? No, you may not cut off a part of your baby. End of story.

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

Wrong again!

[Berdan]

Foreskin is something you don’t need, though it does hurt to remove it. Taking the liver will kill you. Therefore this is false equivalence. You could say it’d be like taking someone’s appendix.

In principle, it's the same.

And you'd be surprised by how much liver you can remove without killing someone, actually.

Am I the only circumcised Athiest who is getting tired of illiterate arguments like when that's just a downright incorrect and illiterate argument against something with lots of actual and genuine reasons to stop the practice?

*raises hand* No.

And I'm inclined against the constant "It's mutilation!" argument as well, considering the number of 9 year olds with ear piercings that can get infected[/quote]
Well, you're wrong there. Ear piercings are very much a voluntary procedure, I wouldn't say it's comparable. And it is, almost by definition, mutilation, even if it doesn't generally have any serious consequences.

Should circumcision stop being practiced on children? Very much so. However this constant emotional crusade against it needs to stop before we can present the legitimate reasons for circumcision being an archaic practice that doesnt really hold many the medical benefits it was thought to.

I think it's fair to point out that in principle it's no different from FGM or chopping off someone's left pinky for religious reasons without their consent. They're illustrative examples, you don't have to read emotion into them.

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

Because reasons, Gallo, something something God, ok?

Why is there such a discussion on the matter? No, you may not cut off a part of your baby. End of story.

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

Wrong again![/quote]
TIL surgically removing a bit of loose skin is comperable to chopping off one of your fingers and a 9 year old can make a permanent medical deicision that can result in nasty ear infections.

[Galloism]

a bit of loose skin

You ARE aware the foreskin is the second most sensitive "bit" "of skin" in the male human body, yes? second only to the head of the penis?

[The Alma Mater]

Why is there such a discussion on the matter?

Good question. For all their claims it is "merely a meaningless flap of skin" people seem to get really upset at the idea of not removing it.

[Neutraligon]

Unless you're Jewish, then you can

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

The same reason giving your child a spanking is allowed but doing so to your neighbor is not.

[Galloism]

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

The same reason giving your child a spanking is allowed but doing so to your neighbor is not.

... damnit.

I do believe I have been hung by my own petard.

I would say I view mutilation different than non mutilation, but that doesn’t fit my example I guess.

[Iridencia]

a bit of loose skin

You ARE aware the foreskin is the second most sensitive "bit" "of skin" in the male human body, yes? second only to the head of the penis?

Even if it weren't, it's not an excuse. Somehow I doubt all these people going, "Pssh, it's just useless skin!" would merrily chuckle to themselves and move on with life after waking up and discovering that someone snipped off their earlobes.

[Senkaku]

I'm still waiting for why it's ok to force a child to undergo a circumcision without their consent, but doing it to my neighbor when he's asleep is a crime.

The same reason giving your child a spanking is allowed but doing so to your neighbor is not.

Children are generally spanked as a punishment or disciplinary measure, not as a religious rite of passage/sign of the covenant or a procedure to supposedly improve their health, though.