Iceland To Ban Male Circumcision

[Salus Maior]

Great news! Ending child abuse shouldn't be controversial, but sadly certain people here seem to think parents forcing genital mutilation on their kids too young to resist is 'freedom'.

'Child abuse is when a parent or caregiver, whether through action or failure to act, causes injury, death, emotional harm or risk of serious harm to a child.' That's the definition of child abuse. The only one that even remotely comes through, is "risk of serious harm." But again, if performed by a trained doctor, it can work without harm. It's not child abuse.

Mohels seem to get along fine. And are typically trained specifically to do the task.

[Fartsniffage]

So if those deaths could be avoided... why weren't they?

Because American hospitals (which is where those numbers are from) are attached to a Victorian era idea of circumcision for some reason.

And they are for profit.

[Salus Maior]

Because American hospitals (which is where those numbers are from) are attached to a Victorian era idea of circumcision for some reason.

And they are for profit.

Yes, which is a problem for another discussion.

[Katganistan]

Great news! Ending child abuse shouldn't be controversial, but sadly certain people here seem to think parents forcing genital mutilation on their kids too young to resist is 'freedom'.

'Child abuse is when a parent or caregiver, whether through action or failure to act, causes injury, death, emotional harm or risk of serious harm to a child.' That's the definition of child abuse. The only one that even remotely comes through, is "risk of serious harm." But again, if performed by a trained doctor, it can work without harm. It's not child abuse.

It can cause emotional harm

So if those deaths could be avoided... why weren't they?

Because American hospitals (which is where those numbers are from) are attached to a Victorian era idea of circumcision for some reason.

Actually no, a sex negative nutjob thought he could curb all masturbation with bad cereal and circumcision

Kellogg. Corn flakes were supposed to get rid of the urge.
So were Graham Crackers.

[Ors Might]

It doesn’t matter if it’s a breach of religious freedom. They’re mutilating children.

Again, that mutilation branding is as thin as a straw. It poses no risk, if done right.

Again, it doesn’t matter if it carries no risk. You are permanently altering a very important organ, cutting off a piece that carries a large amount of nerve endings. Removing it does have an effect on pleasure. None of that would be bad if the person affected by this had a say in it. Infants and children cannot meaningfully consent to this practice.

[The South Falls]

Again, that mutilation branding is as thin as a straw. It poses no risk, if done right.

Again, it doesn’t matter if it carries no risk. You are permanent altering a very important organ, cutting off a piece that carries a large amount of nerve endings. Removing it does have an effect on pleasure. None of that would be bad if the person affected by this had a say in it. Infants and children cannot meaningfully consent to this practice.

What effect? Please spell it out for me.

'Child abuse is when a parent or caregiver, whether through action or failure to act, causes injury, death, emotional harm or risk of serious harm to a child.' That's the definition of child abuse. The only one that even remotely comes through, is "risk of serious harm." But again, if performed by a trained doctor, it can work without harm. It's not child abuse.

[Salus Maior]

Again, it doesn’t matter if it carries no risk. You are permanent altering a very important organ, cutting off a piece that carries a large amount of nerve endings. Removing it does have an effect on pleasure. None of that would be bad if the person affected by this had a say in it. Infants and children cannot meaningfully consent to this practice.

What effect? Please spell it out for me.

It makes your junk tingle a bit more, apparently.

[Fartsniffage]

'Child abuse is when a parent or caregiver, whether through action or failure to act, causes injury, death, emotional harm or risk of serious harm to a child.' That's the definition of child abuse. The only one that even remotely comes through, is "risk of serious harm." But again, if performed by a trained doctor, it can work without harm. It's not child abuse.

Mohels seem to get along fine. And are typically trained specifically to do the task.

Apart from, you know, the herpes....

[Salus Maior]

It can cause emotional harm

I really doubt that data.

[Blood Wine]

What effect? Please spell it out for me.

It makes your junk tingle a bit more, apparently.

No it doesn't :/

[Salus Maior]

Mohels seem to get along fine. And are typically trained specifically to do the task.

Apart from, you know, the herpes....

One Mohel in NY was a hack and the community he effected went after him. That's probably better odds than the secular medical community.

[Blood Wine]

It can cause emotional harm

I really doubt that data.

excessive pain can cause trauma

[Des-Bal]

I would not, actually. Molestation is a far worse offense than circumcision for the obvious reasons.

Are you capable of arguing against circumcision without comparing to it crimes that are not at all related or have similar effects as circumcision?

Are you wholly incapable of seeing parallels? The fact that you would oppose molestation even though it could also allow the victim to live a perfectly normal life should direct you to question how important that factor is in your analysis. The issue is this: You have absolutely no justification for any of the bullshit you're saying. There is no reason anyone should be permitted to slice up a baby's dick. You can't say "but religion" because you've already admitted that's not a perfect defense. You can't say "it's harmless" because you've admitted you wouldn't apply that standard to molestation. What we're left with is you either a giving a good reason why dick slicing isn't that bad or you saying absolutely nothing.

[Blood Wine]

Apart from, you know, the herpes....

One Mohel in NY was a hack and the community he effected went after him. That's probably better odds than the secular medical community.

No, the medical community actually has standards and you know, ethics

[The South Falls]

What effect? Please spell it out for me.

It makes your junk tingle a bit more, apparently.

So your junk tingles, and we should deny religious freedoms on junk tingling?

I really doubt that data.

excessive pain can cause trauma

Well, there is a nice new thing. Came in 1845. It's called Anesthesia

[Salus Maior]

I would not, actually. Molestation is a far worse offense than circumcision for the obvious reasons.

Are you capable of arguing against circumcision without comparing to it crimes that are not at all related or have similar effects as circumcision?

Are you wholly incapable of seeing parallels? The fact that you would oppose molestation even though it could also allow the victim to live a perfectly normal life should direct you to question how important that factor is in your analysis. The issue is this: You have absolutely no justification for any of the bullshit you're saying. There is no reason anyone should be permitted to slice up a baby's dick. You can't say "but religion" because you've already admitted that's not a perfect defense. You can't say "it's harmless" because you've admitted you wouldn't apply that standard to molestation. What we're left with is you either a giving a good reason why dick slicing isn't that bad or you saying absolutely nothing.

That goes to show you really don't know what the hell you're talking about. Which is ridiculous considering how much information on rape and molestation are put out there.

[Gravlen]

So if those deaths could be avoided... why weren't they?

Because American hospitals (which is where those numbers are from) are attached to a Victorian era idea of circumcision for some reason.

So you're saying that American hospitals are not suited to perform this elective procedure, but that shouldn't stop them from taking place? Avoidable deaths due to an unnecessary medical procedure is acceptable to you?

[Webus]

Great news! Ending child abuse shouldn't be controversial, but sadly certain people here seem to think parents forcing genital mutilation on their kids too young to resist is 'freedom'.

'Child abuse is when a parent or caregiver, whether through action or failure to act, causes injury, death, emotional harm or risk of serious harm to a child.' That's the definition of child abuse. The only one that even remotely comes through, is "risk of serious harm." But again, if performed by a trained doctor, it can work without harm. It's not child abuse.

Last time I checked, cutting off a body part is considered 'injury'.

[Fartsniffage]

Apart from, you know, the herpes....

One Mohel in NY was a hack and the community he effected went after him. That's probably better odds than the secular medical community.

You say that, but it isn't true.

https://nypost.com/2017/03/08/new-case- ... cumcision/

Since 2006, 22 percent of all male neonatal herpes cases were linked to ritual circumcision.

Leaders of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community have opposed any restrictions on the centuries-old ritual as an infringement on religious freedom.

Mohels who perform the circumcisions are not even required to be tested for herpes, according to Health Department rules.

[Des-Bal]

So your junk tingles, and we should deny religious freedoms on junk tingling?

No, person cutting another person's dick without their permission part. You've already denied religious leaders the right to circumcise.

[Ors Might]

Again, it doesn’t matter if it carries no risk. You are permanent altering a very important organ, cutting off a piece that carries a large amount of nerve endings. Removing it does have an effect on pleasure. None of that would be bad if the person affected by this had a say in it. Infants and children cannot meaningfully consent to this practice.

What effect? Please spell it out for me.

Well you see, there are these things called

nerves

. The foreskin has hundreds, if not thousands of them.

[Salus Maior]

One Mohel in NY was a hack and the community he effected went after him. That's probably better odds than the secular medical community.

No, the medical community actually has standards and you know, ethics

Yet malpractice still happens.

[Ors Might]

It makes your junk tingle a bit more, apparently.

So your junk tingles, and we should deny religious freedoms on junk tingling?

excessive pain can cause trauma

Well, there is a nice new thing. Came in 1845. It's called Anesthesia

No, we should deny it based on abuse.

[Gravlen]

It can cause emotional harm

I really doubt that data.

Of course, the best approach to data not supporting your hypothesis is to ignore it. That's true science!

[Ifreann]

Mohels seem to get along fine. And are typically trained specifically to do the task.

Apart from, you know, the herpes....

Evidently their advanced medical training in the local temple doesn't cover diagnosing their own herpes.