Iceland To Ban Male Circumcision

[Galloism]

Cutting off earlobes for religious reasons would ALSO be child abuse.

Says who?

Um, every western country that I know of?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I'm asking you where you think the line gets crossed in terms of where you think religion telling people to harm others being an excuse doesn't count anymore. […]

Why didn’t you just outright ask that then? Rather than make yourself look like a fool in comparing the murder of millions to cutting the foreskin off.

[Galloism]

Essentially they are.

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

It's also worth noting there's a growing movement among Jewish people opposing circumcision.

[Fartsniffage]

Essentially they are.

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

Why do religious people get to cut up their children?

[Camicon]

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

Why do religious people get to cut up their children?

Because freedumb, or something.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

Why do religious people get to cut up their children?

Lol no one's cutting up children.

[Ostroeuropa]

Essentially they are.

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

As I previously pointed out, with modern medicine, circumcision kills 200ish a year in the US.
Cast that figure back throughout history to the founding of the practice and escalate the figure as medicine and techniques get worse. It's absurd to propose that a measure intended to save lives and prevent mutilations can be hostile to a group.

[Salus Maior]

I'd say that tampering with the head in any way would be the same as facial disfigurement. Which I've already talked about.

And what if facial disfigurement is a part of some hypothetical religion?

That would be wrong, as I've stated before, disfiguring the face is an attempt to control one's social standing. As I've noted here:

So if I decided according to my religion, you needed to have your nose cut off in infancy, that's A-ok.

No, because that's not nearly the same thing as circumcision.

A circumcised person can do whatever they want, anywhere in the world, and live out a perfectly normal life. Can you really say the same for someone whose face has been disfigured? No, you can't. The face is an incredibly important part of social life, destroying one's face is an attempt to destroy their chances out in the world. That's why the acid attacks in Britain are seen as so incredibly awful and terrible, because you really are changing their lives for the worse in a significant sense by permanently altering their face.

I would say given the importance of circumcision in Judaism and Jewish culture (I can't speak for Islam), and that circumcision is such a minor thing in terms of how one's life is really effected, I don't have a problem with it. They should have the right to do it.

[Camicon]

Why do religious people get to cut up their children?

Lol no one's cutting up children.

Because circumcision doesn't involve edged implements removing part of a child's genitals, no sir.

[Cekoviu]

Why do religious people get to cut up their children?

Lol no one's cutting up children.

They're cutting parts off of children, so while that statement was a bit exaggerated, it's not really incorrect.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

It's also worth noting there's a growing movement among Jewish people opposing circumcision.

Which is against Judaism.

[Cekoviu]

It's also worth noting there's a growing movement among Jewish people opposing circumcision.

Which is against Judaism.

And eating shellfish is against Christianity, but Christians still do it because that's a stupid rule that makes no sense.

[Galloism]

It's also worth noting there's a growing movement among Jewish people opposing circumcision.

Which is against Judaism.

Arguably, but it's not the way they see it.

Point is, why should we allow people on the basis of religion to mutilate the genitals of nonconsenting children? When members of their OWN faith are even saying they're against it?

[Camicon]

It's also worth noting there's a growing movement among Jewish people opposing circumcision.

Which is against Judaism.

Because it's not like Jews decide what is and is not Jewish or anything.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Lol no one's cutting up children.

They're cutting parts off of children, so while that statement was a bit exaggerated, it's not really incorrect.

"A bit" exaggerated???
Dude/dudette made it sound like the kids were being turned into mince meat!

[Salus Maior]

To you, and people outside of the Jewish community sure. But not to the Jews.

As I previously pointed out, with modern medicine, circumcision kills 200ish a year in the US.
Cast that figure back throughout history to the founding of the practice and escalate the figure as medicine and techniques get worse. It's absurd to propose that a measure intended to save lives and prevent mutilations can be hostile to a group.

I've read that statistic and that article did not include any data from the Jewish community, who do not do circumcision the same way American hospitals do. (And I do advocate for the end of the American practice of automatic circumcision for newborn boys)

[Galloism]

Everyone here who is pro cutting pieces off of baby's penises for "religious reasons", please read this and let me know if this is ok or not. Keep in mind: it's done for religious reasons.

No, because that's not nearly the same thing as circumcision.

A circumcised person can do whatever they want, anywhere in the world, and live out a perfectly normal life. Can you really say the same for someone whose face has been disfigured? No, you can't. The face is an incredibly important part of social life, destroying one's face is an attempt to destroy their chances out in the world. That's why the acid attacks in Britain are seen as so incredibly awful and terrible, because you really are changing their lives for the worse in a significant sense by permanently altering their face.

I would say given the importance of circumcision in Judaism and Jewish culture (I can't speak for Islam), and that circumcision is such a minor thing in terms of how one's life is really effected, I don't have a problem with it. They should have the right to do it.

Then I assume this is also ok? Just want to be clear and consistent on things.

“Your Honor, what was being performed was a religious procedure where my client would look at -- on the clitoris of the girls, there's a mucus membrane,” Smith explained when asked by the judge what exactly Nagarwala did do. “She would wipe a little portion of the mucus membrane off, put it on a piece of gauze, which the family would then take the gauze with the mucus membrane and they would bury it.”

Because she's facing charges right now.

[Fartsniffage]

Why do religious people get to cut up their children?

Lol no one's cutting up children.

Yes they are. That's exactly what circumcision is. A person take a knife and cuts off part of a person.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Which is against Judaism.

Because it's not like Jews decide what is and is not Jewish or anything.

Not when they have a holy book that tells them how to live, no.

Which is against Judaism.

And eating shellfish is against Christianity, but Christians still do it because that's a stupid rule that makes no sense.

Old Testament or New Testament?

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm asking you where you think the line gets crossed in terms of where you think religion telling people to harm others being an excuse doesn't count anymore. […]

Why didn’t you just outright ask that then? Rather than make yourself look like a fool in comparing the murder of millions to cutting the foreskin off.

Mutilating children and killing hundreds a year is a fairly despicable practice comparable to other despicable practices. I also find it hysterical you're both calling me an idiot for refusing to put up with your "My religion tells me to do it" excuse and pointing out that can be used to justify literally anything.
You think I sound idiotic for saying that?

"No, idiot, you can't use religion to justify harming millions of people, gawd, why would you say that, you're stupid, i don't wanna talk to you no more."

...
Hey... hey dude. Self-reflect a little and you might just get the point.

[Cekoviu]

Because it's not like Jews decide what is and is not Jewish or anything.

Not when they have a holy book that tells them how to live, no.

And eating shellfish is against Christianity, but Christians still do it because that's a stupid rule that makes no sense.

Old Testament or New Testament?

I don't recall, but it's likely the Old Testament. Which is still canon, but overridden in parts by the NT.

[Salus Maior]

Which is against Judaism.

And eating shellfish is against Christianity, but Christians still do it because that's a stupid rule that makes no sense.

It's not, actually. You've been lied to by people who've picked up a book without trying to understand it in any real sense.

Most of those laws that Atheists spout that Christian have to follow, like the ban on shellfish, no mixed fabrics, etc have never been endorsed by the Church and Christianity throughout it's 2000 years of existence.

[Camicon]

As I previously pointed out, with modern medicine, circumcision kills 200ish a year in the US.
Cast that figure back throughout history to the founding of the practice and escalate the figure as medicine and techniques get worse. It's absurd to propose that a measure intended to save lives and prevent mutilations can be hostile to a group.

I've read that statistic and that article did not include any data from the Jewish community, who do not do circumcision the same way American hospitals do. (And I do advocate for the end of the American practice of automatic circumcision for newborn boys)

Ah, there's your strange "Jewish elders that aren't trained surgeons do circumcisions better than actual trained surgeons in hospitals, because the Jewish elders been doing it the same way for thousands of years" horse.

Such a very strange horse.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Everyone here who is pro cutting pieces off of baby's penises for "religious reasons", please read this and let me know if this is ok or not. Keep in mind: it's done for religious reasons.

Then I assume this is also ok? Just want to be clear and consistent on things.



Because she's facing charges right now.

So, Nagarwala cut/took off a mucus membrane. That really doesn't sound like a lot, but then again, I don't know the anatomy of a woman's private parts.

[Camicon]

Because it's not like Jews decide what is and is not Jewish or anything.

Not when they have a holy book that tells them how to live, no.

I mean, it's not like that book ever needs to be interpreted, or that anyone has ever decided to exclude certain bits because they don't make sense anymore. Don't talk crazy!