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San Francisco mass exodus

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Saiwania
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:18 pm

San Lumen wrote:If you stopped building luxury housing for rich people with insane rents and built only affordable housing the average person could afford there wouldn't be a shortage.

Why would there be no incentive for maintenance if the rent is below the market rates? The market rate is set by building owners on a large scale. They charge ridiculous rent because all they care about is profit so why not make housing something only the rich can afford?


It is not so cut and dry, at least not in my experience. It is a pain in the ass to own rental real estate, there are so many variables to take into account to maintain profitability. It is not an easy or stable market to be in. Not all of the tenants you get will be created equal (some people are hoarders, some will trash your place), sometimes you have to defend a lawsuit, sometimes you'll have to evict someone, there are many taxes and fees, overhead, repair costs, and so on, that make being a landlord an actual job in and of itself.

You don't exactly get to sit on property and wait for the money to come in. A "good" profit margin will be 2% of acquisition cost theoretically. If the prevailing rent is $1,500 for one locale, then you need to have paid only $75,000 for that property in order to break even. Operational overhead costs will be around 50% of whatever rent you collect. You will be spending money just as much as you collect in cash flow. A lot of landlords aren't the stereotypical rich business tycoon, but rather- are upper middle class people that do well but don't live so high off the hog.

So far as luxury real estate goes, higher valued property will bring in more property tax than less valuable real estate. There probably is a place for some luxury real estate existing, but it perhaps shouldn't comprise the majority of a major city. I'd say it depends on an area's median income.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:20 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Hating California is a past time with some people. Some just don’t like sunshine and beaches or something and some are so ideologically bent that if they accept a functional California it destroys their world view. So there’s some cat right now hitting “quote” so he can do those error arrows on “functional California”. It’s cool we’ll just be over here being awesome and the rest will catch up to us eventually.

Another pointless comment is pointless. "Durr hurr you hate us cause you ain't us". I could say the same about Louisiana and you could call us a bunch of backwards, mudbug-eating, alligator-riding hicks. Still doesn't add to the conversation. But sure, make your daily smug comment because it makes you feel good or whatever. You have your state, others have theirs, and nobody is obligated to like your state either.

He didn't say "they hate us cause they ain't us." He said they hate the evidence that clashes with their worldview.

Louisiana, to the extent they are doing well, it's from oil revenue that harms everybody else through climate change. And even then, they come begging for federal assistance they wouldn't need if they didn't live in such a flood-prone state to begin with.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm

Luminesa wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
I thought Harris was the devil.

Why not both?


It would get confusing as anybody who says ill of guns is the devil.
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Olthar
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Postby Olthar » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm

Truemerica wrote:
The Republic of Christiandom wrote:ReNt COnTroL

Slash spending, lower the minimum wage... just suggestions

How would lowering minimum wage help people afford rent prices? That seems a bit backwards.

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:24 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Plz stop moving to other states and ruining them Californians.

Have you no compassion for refugees? :^)
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:25 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
If housing prices in San Francisco are soaring sky high, it is because so many people want to move there, but with a limited supply of real estate, only the highest bidders are going to make it in, and this repeats in a positive feedback loop.

If there is a desire to lower rents, I'd suggest that San Francisco's government is pretty much going to need to build more housing, maybe apartments that can fit in a lot of people. I'm not quite certain if keeping those places rent controlled would put any downward price pressure on the rest of San Francisco's housing market. The danger is that any rent controlled places are gradually going to deteriorate if there isn't incentive for maintenance if the rent is kept too far below market rates.

I certainly can't condone implementing rent control for the entire city if it creates new problems. The best way to reduce the price is to substantially increase the supply more so than the amount of demand there is.

If you stopped building luxary housing for rich people with insane rents and built only affordable housing the average person could afford there wouldn't be a shortage.

Why would there be no incentive for maintenance if the rent is below the market rates? The market rate is set by building owners on a large scale. They charge ridiculous rent because all they care about is profit so why not make housing something only the rich can afford?


It only arguments are nice but the land values drive it.

Rent was affordable once. The republican market collapse and their foreclosure celebrations drove rents crazy. I had a crappy flat that was 1200 and at the height of foreclosure times it was 2700.
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* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:26 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Plz stop moving to other states and ruining them Californians.

Have you no compassion for refugees? :^)


Wait....they trying to say they are compassionate conservatives again?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Kramanica
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kramanica » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:26 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Plz stop moving to other states and ruining them Californians.

Have you no compassion for refugees? :^)

People who vote to make states this why deserve no sympathy tbqh fam.
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San Marlindo
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Ex-Nation

Postby San Marlindo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:30 pm

Yup, saw the same when I lived in one of the biggest cities in Texas. Even the crappiest places in the crappiest neighborhoods had unbelievably high rent. People either had to pay up with government vouchers or do without. No way a family surviving on a working class income could cover the price of rent by themselves. Meanwhile, construction remains underway on these massive new apartment projects with rental rates that could only be afforded by people on white collar incomes. And yet even many of these new apartments aren't that great.

The price of housing was driving a ton of people to the suburbs and even to the countryside. Rent an apartment outside the city limits, then commute there for work. That's the only way to get a nice place that's also affordable. If you can't make the commute, you're plumb out of luck.
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San Marlindo
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Postby San Marlindo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:33 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
San Lumen wrote:If you stopped building luxary housing for rich people with insane rents and built only affordable housing the average person could afford there wouldn't be a shortage.

Why would there be no incentive for maintenance if the rent is below the market rates? The market rate is set by building owners on a large scale. They charge ridiculous rent because all they care about is profit so why not make housing something only the rich can afford?


It only arguments are nice but the land values drive it.

Rent was affordable once. The republican market collapse and their foreclosure celebrations drove rents crazy. I had a crappy flat that was 1200 and at the height of foreclosure times it was 2700.


Damn, $1200 monthly for a crappy flat is insane. I can't imagine $2700. Holy shit.

Just how crappy are we talking here? Good neighborhood? Solid building with no major structural problems?
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The Parkus Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:35 pm

Kramanica wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Have you no compassion for refugees? :^)

People who vote to make states this why deserve no sympathy tbqh fam.

People leaving California are actually more likely the ones who don't vote to make it like that. That's why we are losing employers.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:35 pm

San Marlindo wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
It only arguments are nice but the land values drive it.

Rent was affordable once. The republican market collapse and their foreclosure celebrations drove rents crazy. I had a crappy flat that was 1200 and at the height of foreclosure times it was 2700.


Damn, $1200 monthly for a crappy flat is insane. I can't imagine $2700. Holy shit.

Just how crappy are we talking here? Good neighborhood? Solid building with no major structural problems?


The area was ok. The building was old and was a fire trap. Something was missing in the roof layout where if there was a fire in one flat; the whole row would be lost. 1200 was cheap. The "better" area was apple land.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Truemerica
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Corporate Police State

Postby Truemerica » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:37 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Truemerica wrote:Slash spending, lower the minimum wage... just suggestions

Tell that to the OK state.

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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Plz stop moving to other states and ruining them Californians.

I'd be happy to have some Californian liberals move here. We desperately need some high-level state and national politicians who aren't stuffy old "family values" Republicans.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:39 pm

My friends have sold their home in SF, with a lovely view of both bays, and moved to Oakland.

They did not say why.

She still works in SF, so they cannot go too far away
"Life is difficult".

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The Parkus Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:41 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Plz stop moving to other states and ruining them Californians.

I'd be happy to have some Californian liberals move here. We desperately need some high-level state and national politicians who aren't stuffy old "family values" Republicans.

I'm betting the conditions of whatever state you're in are superior to California's.
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:47 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I'd be happy to have some Californian liberals move here. We desperately need some high-level state and national politicians who aren't stuffy old "family values" Republicans.

I'm betting the conditions of whatever state you're in are superior to California's.

They will be once Hatch retires.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:47 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I'd be happy to have some Californian liberals move here. We desperately need some high-level state and national politicians who aren't stuffy old "family values" Republicans.

I'm betting the conditions of whatever state you're in are superior to California's.


Are we not told that California is the bellwether for American society?
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:48 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I'm betting the conditions of whatever state you're in are superior to California's.


Are we not told that California is the bellwether for American society?

I thought that was Illinois.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:02 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I'm betting the conditions of whatever state you're in are superior to California's.


Are we not told that California is the bellwether for American society?

And that doesn't bode well for America.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:03 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
They move to other places and start trying to implement all the stuff that made California shit, thanks but no thanks.


California isn't shit, though.

Then explain to me why people are moving away like crazy? Also California has a water crisis. What do they do? Build desalination plants and attempt to curb wasteful water consumption? Nope. They build an billion dollar train to nowhere that started construction in 2015 and won’t be finished with phase one until 2030.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:05 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
California isn't shit, though.

Then explain to me why people are moving away like crazy? Also California has a water crisis. What do they do? Build desalination plants and attempt to curb wasteful water consumption? Nope. They build an billion dollar train to nowhere that started construction in 2015 and won’t be finished with phase one until 2030.


Draught is off for now.

Moving is mainly due to the housing crunch. Where I live there is next to nothing for available stuff.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:05 pm

Shofercia wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Heh.

But srsly, I wouldn't mind visiting Cali.

It has some good theme parks and it sounds like it has lovely weather.


There's a lot more to Cali than theme parks, but that's usually the first place everyone goes. We also have this: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions ... ornia.html
And this: http://www.visitcalifornia.com/feature/ ... california

And in Cali, you can also surf and ski in a single day. Or watch any professional sports team you want. We have everything, except sanity in the State Government :P

I’d go to the California National parks before I do any thing like Disneyland
Last edited by Thermodolia on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Then explain to me why people are moving away like crazy? Also California has a water crisis. What do they do? Build desalination plants and attempt to curb wasteful water consumption? Nope. They build an billion dollar train to nowhere that started construction in 2015 and won’t be finished with phase one until 2030.


Draught is off for now.

Moving is mainly due to the housing crunch. Where I live there is next to nothing for available stuff.

Oh I’m not saying that the drought is what caused people to move. I’m just giving the dumb budget practices as evidence that California can get pretty dumb.

Either way I really don’t care. Half of Hollywood already lives here. It helps the Atlanta housing market which is booming.
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Ok, why the hate for California again?

Ever since the election California has been getting hate on.

Kinda unfair really.


They move to other places and start trying to implement all the stuff that made California shit, thanks but no thanks.

My brother was talking about the influx of people to Sacramento from the Bay Area is skyrocketing housing prices there. And they're building new fancy condos there, too, while also seemingly acting like they're making the city "better". They're apparently making places historical sites left and right in the city (including my moms old house, interestingly enough) because they're just replacing the old styled homes everywhere down there with fancy new condos.
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