by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:31 pm
by Greed and Death » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:33 pm
by Ashmoria » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:38 pm
Robustian wrote:One of the political buzzwords today is "socialized medicine"
by NERVUN » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:41 pm
by Barringtonia » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:48 pm
What does work? Here in the US, it's our food industry. Here in the US, it's our food industry. Unless you live in the absolute tiniest and most remote parts of the country, you have several places to choose from for your food needs, within each one most products have at least two, and sometimes up to 10 competing brands of the same thing. You don't buy "food insurance" to "protect you" from high priced food, do you?
by Lunatic Goofballs » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:57 pm
by Blouman Empire » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:00 pm
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:You know, he might actually have a point. You could sell healthcare like food in a grocery store....
When there are 30 different pharmaceutical companies marketing competing medications to cure the same ailments instead of just one... When there are 6 different ambulance companies within range of your house willing to take you to one of 10 nearby hospitals where you have your choice of doctor brands, varieties of x-rays, several methods of treating your cancer effectively depending on your budget and whether you like the minty-fresh scent the chemotherapy leaves.
...It would be nice and I would approve of such a system. Unfortunately, reality rarely meets with my approval.
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:00 pm
NERVUN wrote:Oh boy, yet ANOTHER thread by someone who complains that those who would like to see universal health care are clueless, but is actually clueless himself.
AND ignores the fact that this forum is populated by folks who live outside the US and can blow his points out of the water.
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:03 pm
greed and death wrote:I am against nationalized health care.
But seriously TL;DR.
Try starting with a smaller Idea then in the process of a point counter point debate work your other ideas in.
by Grave_n_idle » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:09 pm
Robustian wrote:The health care debate... OR how there's not been one.
Robustian wrote:Your assumption presumes I'm incorrect. You're incorrect. I am correct. Period.
by Lunatic Goofballs » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:12 pm
Grave_n_idle wrote:Exhibit A:Robustian wrote:The health care debate... OR how there's not been one.
Exhibit B:Robustian wrote:Your assumption presumes I'm incorrect. You're incorrect. I am correct. Period.
An actual debate... OR "how I'm not interested in having one"?
by Greed and Death » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:13 pm
Robustian wrote:greed and death wrote:I am against nationalized health care.
But seriously TL;DR.
Try starting with a smaller Idea then in the process of a point counter point debate work your other ideas in.
Why would you think that any rational debate over health care can be a simplistic conversation?
It's simplistic thinking that's the problem here. That's why I put in the "clueless-ologues" who think and argue in simplistic terms. This topic is not about simplistic thinking or simplistic answers. It's complex and requires serious thought and observations, and involves MANY different topics and ideas.
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:13 pm
Grave_n_idle wrote:Exhibit A:Robustian wrote:The health care debate... OR how there's not been one.
Exhibit B:Robustian wrote:Your assumption presumes I'm incorrect. You're incorrect. I am correct. Period.
An actual debate... OR "how I'm not interested in having one"?
by Takaram » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:14 pm
Robustian wrote:greed and death wrote:I am against nationalized health care.
But seriously TL;DR.
Try starting with a smaller Idea then in the process of a point counter point debate work your other ideas in.
Why would you think that any rational debate over health care can be a simplistic conversation?
It's simplistic thinking that's the problem here. That's why I put in the "clueless-ologues" who think and argue in simplistic terms. This topic is not about simplistic thinking or simplistic answers. It's complex and requires serious thought and observations, and involves MANY different topics and ideas.
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:15 pm
greed and death wrote:Robustian wrote:greed and death wrote:I am against nationalized health care.
But seriously TL;DR.
Try starting with a smaller Idea then in the process of a point counter point debate work your other ideas in.
Why would you think that any rational debate over health care can be a simplistic conversation?
It's simplistic thinking that's the problem here. That's why I put in the "clueless-ologues" who think and argue in simplistic terms. This topic is not about simplistic thinking or simplistic answers. It's complex and requires serious thought and observations, and involves MANY different topics and ideas.
Because this is a forum that implies a 2 way exchange of ideas.
No one is going to read all of this much less write a rebuttal against your points.
So if this were a speech it would be a one way communication, but because this is a forum no one is going to read something that long effectively making it a non-communication.
by Barringtonia » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:16 pm
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:17 pm
Takaram wrote:Robustian wrote:greed and death wrote:I am against nationalized health care.
But seriously TL;DR.
Try starting with a smaller Idea then in the process of a point counter point debate work your other ideas in.
Why would you think that any rational debate over health care can be a simplistic conversation?
It's simplistic thinking that's the problem here. That's why I put in the "clueless-ologues" who think and argue in simplistic terms. This topic is not about simplistic thinking or simplistic answers. It's complex and requires serious thought and observations, and involves MANY different topics and ideas.
I think what greed and death is saying is start off small and build, because no one wants to sit and read a wall of text.
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:19 pm
Barringtonia wrote:Here we go again,
If you think comments are not worthy of response Robustian, ignore them, then you can simply 'debate' with people who agree with you.
'I think you're right'
'Well, I think you're very right'
'Beg you pardon, just how right are we talking about'
'Extremely right and correct on all counts'
'My you're a fine debator'
'No, you're a fine debator'
...
by Barringtonia » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:22 pm
Robustian wrote:The author insulted your and every other reader's intelligence.
And no, in this one instance, his comment was nothing but a full throttle flame.
Wrong.
Your assumption presumes I'm incorrect. You're incorrect. I am correct. Period.
by The_pantless_hero » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:27 pm
Introduce the forces of the open market as they apply to informed consumers voluntarily choosing their provider and voluntarily choosing what they will and will not pay for.
I, for one, will not go to a doctor that insists that I have to pay them to weigh me, take my temperature, measure my height, hair, assess my skin and skeleton and otherwise do a whole physical each time I visit, even if it is just one week apart. Well, if I pay the bill, that is. If the insurance pays, I only care about the time lost.
So, place the patient in the direct situation of being a consumer in an informed marketplace. Require medical care to be financially transparent. In other words, to know what something will cost before I choose to do it or have it done.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:29 pm
Barringtonia wrote:Robustian wrote:The author insulted your and every other reader's intelligence.
And no, in this one instance, his comment was nothing but a full throttle flame.
People have made points in response to your OP, instead of addressing those you choose to reply thusly:Wrong.
Your assumption presumes I'm incorrect. You're incorrect. I am correct. Period.
Like, periodly period?
Then you continue to ignore any actual point and get involved in personal attacks.
Hardly the sign of considered intelligence.
by NERVUN » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:30 pm
Robustian wrote:NERVUN wrote:Oh boy, yet ANOTHER thread by someone who complains that those who would like to see universal health care are clueless, but is actually clueless himself.
AND ignores the fact that this forum is populated by folks who live outside the US and can blow his points out of the water.
Wrong.
Your assumption presumes I'm incorrect. You're incorrect. I am correct. Period.
by Robustian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:30 pm
The_pantless_hero wrote:Introduce the forces of the open market as they apply to informed consumers voluntarily choosing their provider and voluntarily choosing what they will and will not pay for.
I, for one, will not go to a doctor that insists that I have to pay them to weigh me, take my temperature, measure my height, hair, assess my skin and skeleton and otherwise do a whole physical each time I visit, even if it is just one week apart. Well, if I pay the bill, that is. If the insurance pays, I only care about the time lost.
So, place the patient in the direct situation of being a consumer in an informed marketplace. Require medical care to be financially transparent. In other words, to know what something will cost before I choose to do it or have it done.
So what color is the sky on Delusional Earth?
An open market is inherently pro-company profit which is directly contradictory to good healthcare. Providing good healthcare is not profitable. Healthcare must be as insulated from the open market as it can possibly be.
by Barringtonia » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:32 pm
Robustian wrote:I haven't "ignored" any "actual points" . None have been made.
by The_pantless_hero » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:32 pm
Robustian wrote:The_pantless_hero wrote:So what color is the sky on Delusional Earth?
An open market is inherently pro-company profit which is directly contradictory to good healthcare. Providing good healthcare is not profitable. Healthcare must be as insulated from the open market as it can possibly be.
Explain your presumption here.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!
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