Turkey: eating left-handed is demonic

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Are you serious...?
I can't find anything about it

It is in the Martyrs' Mirror
q.v.

Assuming the OP is reliable, this could simply be a heavy-handed and poorly phrased attempt to address a genuine public health issue.

I haven't looked closely enough at the issue to form a firm opinion either way, but given what the left hand is typically used for in peasant cultures across the Middle East (and let's not mince words; it's typically used to wipe the shit from the arse after a bowel movement), discouraging use of the left hand in food consumption is actually a fairly good idea.

Arguing that using your arse-wiping hand to eat food is demonic is something those of us in the industrialised west might well find to be medieval and/or amusing, but if that's the most effective way of convincing your average illiterate Anatolian peasant to minimise contact between faeces and food, I don't see why it's all to the bad.

We don't all have access to toilet paper and flush toilets.

And/or this:
https://sunnah.com/urn/1273740
https://sunnah.com/muslim/2/82
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/1/32
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/2/369

[The Archregimancy]

Assuming the OP is reliable, this could simply be a heavy-handed and poorly phrased attempt to address a genuine public health issue.

I haven't looked closely enough at the issue to form a firm opinion either way, but given what the left hand is typically used for in peasant cultures across the Middle East (and let's not mince words; it's typically used to wipe the shit from the arse after a bowel movement), discouraging use of the left hand in food consumption is actually a fairly good idea.

Arguing that using your arse-wiping hand to eat food is demonic is something those of us in the industrialised west might well find to be medieval and/or amusing, but if that's the most effective way of convincing your average illiterate Anatolian peasant to minimise contact between faeces and food, I don't see why it's all to the bad.

We don't all have access to toilet paper and flush toilets.

And/or this:
https://sunnah.com/urn/1273740
https://sunnah.com/muslim/2/82
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/1/32
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/2/369

We can give it a religious context if we like, but at least two of those ahadith merely confirm that in traditional Middle Eastern cultures, the left hand is reserved for arse-wiping. Avoiding eating with the left hand is therefore a fairly basic hygiene issue rather than an inherent sign that the Turkish government has gone insane. We have enough of the latter already.

And a quick digression on the second of those ahadith... conceding I haven't undertaken any extensive research into the subject, I'm not wholly convinced that even the most pious male Muslim only ever masturbates with his left hand.

[Kubumba Tribe]

And/or this:
https://sunnah.com/urn/1273740
https://sunnah.com/muslim/2/82
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/1/32
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/2/369

We can give it a religious context if we like, but at least two of those ahadith merely confirm that in traditional Middle Eastern cultures, the left hand is reserved for arse-wiping. Avoiding eating with the left hand is therefore a fairly basic hygiene issue rather than an inherent sign that the Turkish government has gone insane. We have enough of the latter already.

And a quick digression on the second of those ahadith... conceding I haven't undertaken any extensive research into the subject, I'm not wholly convinced that even the most pious male Muslim only ever masturbates with his left hand.

There may be some Muslims that do so, AlHamdulillah.
Also, some Muslims believe masturbation is haram.

[Eibenland]

And/or this:
https://sunnah.com/urn/1273740
https://sunnah.com/muslim/2/82
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/1/32
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/2/369

We can give it a religious context if we like, but at least two of those ahadith merely confirm that in traditional Middle Eastern cultures, the left hand is reserved for arse-wiping. Avoiding eating with the left hand is therefore a fairly basic hygiene issue rather than an inherent sign that the Turkish government has gone insane. We have enough of the latter already.

And a quick digression on the second of those ahadith... conceding I haven't undertaken any extensive research into the subject, I'm not wholly convinced that even the most pious male Muslim only ever masturbates with his left hand.

It has no effect on hygiene in the modern world, where washing your hands after using the bathroom is routine and expected. It shows again how the Turkish government is disregarding logic.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Once religion legitimizes belief without evidence, all bets are off.

[Phoenicaea]

Turkey is increasingly turning into a well-armed joke. It having a decent sized army and a large militant population in Western Europe is why it's still a very unfunny joke.

Turkey isn't really well armed, it's just got large quantities of arms.

Without exaggeration, NKorea and Turkey are pretty much on the same level when it comes to armament modernisation.

I fear things have changed since '70, Turkey is heavely and well armed nowadays, with a large and quite modernised fleet. It was scheduled, since it is Nato stronghold.

[Trumptonium]

Turkey isn't really well armed, it's just got large quantities of arms.

Without exaggeration, NKorea and Turkey are pretty much on the same level when it comes to armament modernisation.

I fear things have changed since '70, Turkey is heavely and well armed nowadays, with a large and quite modernised fleet. It was scheduled, since it is Nato stronghold.

Turkish fleet isn't modernised in any way ... all of Turkey's submarines are imports from Germany designed in the 1960s, and all of Turkey's corvettes/frigates are imports from France which France decommissioned in 1999, and sold what it could for scraps. Now, 1999 might seem recent, but that was 20 years ago and Pakistan had just designed it's first ever nuclear bomb.

[Germaniche]

The only "modern" thing they have upcoming is the Altay and that thing's probably going to be a T-84 level mess.

[The Archregimancy]

We can give it a religious context if we like, but at least two of those ahadith merely confirm that in traditional Middle Eastern cultures, the left hand is reserved for arse-wiping. Avoiding eating with the left hand is therefore a fairly basic hygiene issue rather than an inherent sign that the Turkish government has gone insane. We have enough of the latter already.

And a quick digression on the second of those ahadith... conceding I haven't undertaken any extensive research into the subject, I'm not wholly convinced that even the most pious male Muslim only ever masturbates with his left hand.

It has no effect on hygiene in the modern world, where washing your hands after using the bathroom is routine and expected. It shows again how the Turkish government is disregarding logic.

I'm sorry, but it does impact hygiene. It's unrealistic to argue that 'washing your hands after using the bathroom is routine and expected' as a universal given the realities of the global figures.

Much of the world's population lacks either reliable running water or modern toilet facilities. In India, only about a third of the population has access to 'improved' toilet facilities. A third of China's population likewise lacks modern toilet facilities. Two thirds of India and a third of China are fairly significant chunks of the world's population.

While Turkey is doing relatively well compared to some other countries; the 10% of Turks who lack modern toilets will disproportionately be the rural poor of Anatolia -
often among the more conservative Muslims in Turkey, and the likely target of this pronouncement.

I think the pronouncement is heavy-handed and poorly phrased; it will do little to convince the liberal urban opposition to Erdogan that the country is headed in the right direction.

But nor do I think that the directive is functionally insane given that likely target audience.

[Grimmsland]

and all this time I thought the reason why it was a no no to eat with their left was because thats the one they wiped their butts with.

[Internationalist Bastard]

and all this time I thought the reason why it was a no no to eat with their left was because thats the one they wiped their butts with.

I think that’s we’re it originates from

[Liriena]

...okay, Turkey, who hurt you?

Also, I'm right-handed... but I use my toes a lot to pick stuff up and I'm surprisingly good at it. Am I off the hook or did I just reach another level in demonic behavior?

[Ondine]

"EVERYONE WHO'S LEFT-HANDED IS THE GREAT SATAN INCARNATE! FORGET AMERICA, THERE ARE MANY MORE THREATS CLOSER TO HOME!"
—Turkey's leading religious authority (abridged and paraphrased)

Now, to concur with The Archregimancy: yes, traditionally, in the Middle East as well as the Indian subcontinent—which also goes for non-Islamic cultures originating there, too—people wiped themselves with their left hands because, well, no toilet paper to begin with. So there's some basis in that being a custom already, but to say that left-handedness is demonic mirrors how, in the Middle Ages of Europe, left-handed children were "converted" to their right hands, and this was happening even within the first half of the 20th century, too; so, I don't blame people for being worried at the direction Turkey is heading, which is, to say the least, going backwards in time...literally.

I personally am right-handed, but I eat with my left hand so I can still do stuff with my right hand without having to worry about getting the tap greasy or sticky when turning it on to wash my hands after eating. I reserve the cruder motions to my left hand, and the finer motions that also require strength to my right hand. Simple and easy.

[Vistulange]

Assuming the OP is reliable, this could simply be a heavy-handed and poorly phrased attempt to address a genuine public health issue.

I haven't looked closely enough at the issue to form a firm opinion either way, but given what the left hand is typically used for in peasant cultures across the Middle East (and let's not mince words; it's typically used to wipe the shit from the arse after a bowel movement), discouraging use of the left hand in food consumption is actually a fairly good idea.

Arguing that using your arse-wiping hand to eat food is demonic is something those of us in the industrialised west might well find to be medieval and/or amusing, but if that's the most effective way of convincing your average illiterate Anatolian peasant to minimise contact between faeces and food, I don't see why it's all to the bad.

We don't all have access to toilet paper and flush toilets.

Arch, toilets are pretty prolific in Anatolia, in 2018. We're not rural peasants, not since the 1980's.

Yeah, fuck that. Your system is awful and should not be put in place anywhere.

Says who?

Mustafa fucking Kemal Atatürk. That's why we fought a War of Independence and that's why we turned the decrepit Ottoman Empire into the Republic of Turkey. You can go play Sharia down south, but the buck ought to stop here. Turkey ought to be secular, to the degree of France is, or end. The AKP government has demonstrated to us that Islamists should never be trusted with government. They don't know how to govern, they are corrupt, and they are inept and they are out of touch with the real world. /rant

To be more serious, I prefer secularism because as an apathetic theist, I would have no rights under the system you advocate for. A secular state would not give a rat's ass about my belief, or lack of belief, in a god.

[Larin]

الحمد لله Turkey is finally become a more Islamic country

[The New California Republic]

الحمد لله Turkey is finally become a more Islamic country

And that has resulted in left handed people being branded as demons. Yup, it is so great, isn't it(!)

[Al-Ismailiyya]

الحمد لله Turkey is finally become a more Islamic more backwards country

FTFY

[El-Amin Caliphate]

الحمد لله Turkey is finally become a more Islamic country

AlHamdulillah.
But Trukey and the rest of our Ummah still have a long way to go. May Allah (SWT) bring us back to siratal-mustaqeem, aameen.

[Washington Resistance Army]

الحمد لله Turkey is finally become a more Islamic country

A shame really, if they weren't useful I'd say we should give them the boot out of NATO.

[Larin]

الحمد لله Turkey is finally become a more Islamic country

AlHamdulillah.
But Trukey and the rest of our Ummah still have a long way to go. May Allah (SWT) bring us back to siratal-mustaqeem, aameen.

I agree, aameen

[Al-Ismailiyya]

May Allah (SWT) bring us back to siratal-mustaqeem, aameen.

See, yeah, no. None of this has anything to do with returning to any "right path". It is applying 7th century traditions to 2018 and condemning any who don't go back 1300 years in their way of thinking.

[The Huskar Social Union]

The Fact some people are celebrating this is fucking ridiculous.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The Fact some people are celebrating this is fucking ridiculous.

Right? There's no reason for this nonsense to exist in the modern day.

[Ifreann]

High time the world stopped ignoring the lefty menace.

Appease the lefties, give us your virginz!

Oh no, we're not falling for that again.

[Ukonea]

Who'd have thought turkeys have such passionate opinions about the correct way of eating?