F1 to no longer feature "grid girls"

[Grand Britannia]

They must really want their views tanked.

[The NewsStand]

Relevant? yes. Good, Useful, and logical? No

Why?
It's perfectly logical.
Dehumanization of women by presenting us as objects meant to reward men (grid girls) and a much worse dehumanization of women by selling our bodies: that is actually the same issue.

I’m glad you know you write for something

Meaning of that?

Apologies - my argument here won't be particularly well formed, although it's a subject I feel very strongly about. Apologies for going off-topic too.
Grid Girls are a very different thing to prostitution. If brothels get closed down, prostitutes move to the streets. I don't expect Grid Girls to end up hanging out on the corner so that people can pay to look at them.
I feel that prostitution, and people buying sex, needs to be legal. It's a very dangerous job. Legal brothels help provide a safer environment to work in. Being legal gives the workers protections that they would otherwise not have.
This doesn't make buying and selling sex morally correct. But most sex workers are damaged people, and they need and deserve basic rights.

[Chessmistress]

Why?
It's perfectly logical.
Dehumanization of women by presenting us as objects meant to reward men (grid girls) and a much worse dehumanization of women by selling our bodies: that is actually the same issue.



Meaning of that?

Apologies - my argument here won't be particularly well formed, although it's a subject I feel very strongly about. Apologies for going off-topic too.
Grid Girls are a very different thing to prostitution. If brothels get closed down, prostitutes move to the streets. I don't expect Grid Girls to end up hanging out on the corner so that people can pay to look at them.
I feel that prostitution, and people buying sex, needs to be legal. It's a very dangerous job. Legal brothels help provide a safer environment to work in. Being legal gives the workers protections that they would otherwise not have.
This doesn't make buying and selling sex morally correct. But most sex workers are damaged people, and they need and deserve basic rights.

Grid girls aren't the same as prostitutes, that's obiouvs, but those things are connected, they have the same root, and strip clubs are somewhat halfway between those two.
Since English isn't my first language, I usually prefer to use well-written English sources, explaining better what I meant

Troubling in and of itself, this repackaging of patriarchal ideals is also sustained through liberal feminist discourse. The third wave has not only failed to challenge the objectification of women, but has provided beauty pageants with mantras about self-empowerment to appropriate. Whereas second wave feminists took aim at any system that made women interchangeable and commodifiable — including Miss America — the third wave has provided an ideology that protects and perpetuates those systems.

What the Presidents Club scandal proved was that liberal mantras about “choice” and “empowerment” mean little when power under patriarchy is stacked against women. The question should not be, “Do women choose to participate in these events and systems?” but, “Who benefits from these misogynist minstrel shows?”

We would be well-served to remember that our foremothers saw through these spectacles wherein women are used as superficial tokens, and warned us that we can’t win under patriarchy. After decades of fragmentation and the divisive politics of individualism, we can see that second wavers were right to analyze the implications of the objectification of women, instead of trying to seek empowerment through it.

How long before liberals and third wavers connect the dots and realize that it’s not just the Presidents Club that needs to go, but every practice wherein women are discarded, degraded, and subjected to abuse for the entertainment of men? This includes industries like pornography, prostitution, fashion, and cosmetic surgery. How many women must suffer through humiliations and abuse at the hands of men before we learn that pandering to patriarchy doesn’t work? If we seek the liberation of all women, only tearing down the system will do.

Excerpt from such article
http://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/02/ ... rica-next/

Regarding people referring to gays: clearly, grid girls weren't meant to pander to gay men, they were meant to pander to heterosexual males, who are the overwhelmingly majority of men and also the overwhelmingly majority of men watching F1, so I have not even an hint of why you're bringing up gays.

[Costa Fierro]

Grid girls aren't the same as prostitutes, that's obiouvs, but those things are connected, they have the same root, and strip clubs are somewhat halfway between those two.

Not even close. Grid girls are models. Most of them are hired by race organisers and/or teams on contracts from modelling agencies. Some are not, but they do get paid very well for the job they have to do. The fact that you are essentially calling them whores on the basis that they're showing some skin and standing around looking pretty is quite interesting, given I imagine you'd be opposed to the idea of slut shaming.

[New haven america]

Relevant? yes. Good, Useful, and logical? No

Why?
It's perfectly logical.
Dehumanization of women by presenting us as objects meant to reward men (grid girls) and a much worse dehumanization of women by selling our bodies: that is actually the same issue.

And yet you make no issue or even mention the women being used as sex/rape slaves in the Middle East, yet praise when women lose jobs they love. Priorities!

Why do you hate your fellow womenfolk, Chess?

[Cannot think of a name]

They must really want their views tanked.

Man, if you were watching F1 for the grid girls then you were working way to hard for titlation.

[Chessmistress]

Why?
It's perfectly logical.
Dehumanization of women by presenting us as objects meant to reward men (grid girls) and a much worse dehumanization of women by selling our bodies: that is actually the same issue.

And yet you make no issue or even mention the women being used as sex/rape slaves in the Middle East, yet praise when women lose jobs they love. Priorities!

Why do you hate your fellow womenfolk, Chess?

Priorities, exactly: I have problems while dealing with Americans, due cultural differences, I could not even figure out what to do with the people above. They're well beyond my reach, well beyond my possibilities, but, luckily, they're doing quite a good job using their specifical way: in Saudi Arabia women earned the right to vote in 2015, and in 2017 they got the right to drive a car. They still have a lot of challenges, but, you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_wasn ... t_in_a_day

[Topoliani]

And yet you make no issue or even mention the women being used as sex/rape slaves in the Middle East, yet praise when women lose jobs they love. Priorities!

Why do you hate your fellow womenfolk, Chess?

Priorities, exactly: I have problems while dealing with Americans, due cultural differences, I could not even figure out what to do with the people above. They're well beyond my reach, well beyond my possibilities, but, luckily, they're doing quite a good job using their specifical way: in Saudi Arabia women earned the right to vote in 2015, and in 2017 they got the right to drive a car. They still have a lot of challenges, but, you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_wasn ... t_in_a_day

It's 2018, everything is within reach. Nothing is sacred anymore. Why focus on some mildly, potentially non-existent, cracked brick when the entire foundation is about to collapse due to some other bigger problem?

[New haven america]

And yet you make no issue or even mention the women being used as sex/rape slaves in the Middle East, yet praise when women lose jobs they love. Priorities!

Why do you hate your fellow womenfolk, Chess?

1.Priorities, exactly: I have problems while dealing with Americans, due cultural differences, I could not even figure out what to do with the people above. 2. They're well beyond my reach, 3.well beyond my possibilities, but, luckily, they're doing quite a good job using their specifical way: in Saudi Arabia women earned the right to vote in 2015, and in 2017 they got the right to drive a car. They still have a lot of challenges, but, you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_wasn ... t_in_a_day

1. All I'm seeing here is you supporting women loosing their financial stability and options. Good job, you're claiming to be feminist while going against what feminism wants.
2. Bullshit. Everything is within reach in today's society.
3. And yet I still see no mention of the women being used as sex/rape slaves. I like how you chose to leave that little part out. Quick question: Do you really think that they care about the supposed objectification of women elsewhere when they themselves are being treated as sex toys?

[Petrasylvania]

1.Priorities, exactly: I have problems while dealing with Americans, due cultural differences, I could not even figure out what to do with the people above. 2. They're well beyond my reach, 3.well beyond my possibilities, but, luckily, they're doing quite a good job using their specifical way: in Saudi Arabia women earned the right to vote in 2015, and in 2017 they got the right to drive a car. They still have a lot of challenges, but, you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_wasn ... t_in_a_day

1. All I'm seeing here is you supporting women loosing their financial stability. Good job, you're claiming to be feminist while going against what feminism wants.
2. Bullshit.
3. And yet I still see no mention of the women being used as sex/rape slaves. I like how you chose to leave that little part out. Quick question: Do you really think that they care about the supposed objectification of women elsewhere when they themselves are being treated as sex toys?

Welcome to Straw Feminism 101.

[Chessmistress]

3. And yet I still see no mention of the women being used as sex/rape slaves. I like how you chose to leave that little part out. Quick question: Do you really think that they care about the supposed objectification of women elsewhere when they themselves are being treated as sex toys?

I actually did answer to that, by saying that such things happening in a very different part of the world are well beyond my reach.
I also add that, in different ways, the same is happening even in the west: there are western countries where sex trafficking is totally out of control, "thanks" to legalized prostitution. That isn't so different from the cases you cite: some reports are truly horrorifying.

Why are you resorting to the old, tiring, deflection tactics: "women are having it worse in X country, why don't you focus on them and, since women in the west are relatively well off compared to them, let us enjoy being paid more than women/using prostitutes/using porn/etc ?"

[Grand Britannia]

They must really want their views tanked.

Man, if you were watching F1 for the grid girls then you were working way to hard for titlation.

I don't watch it at all.

But I've seen people tune in around for them. I can't blame them. Seems fair they give them something interesting to watch after watching a vehicle go in circles for the 500th time.

[Cannot think of a name]

Man, if you were watching F1 for the grid girls then you were working way to hard for titlation.

I don't watch it at all.

But I've seen people tune in around for them. I can't blame them. Seems fair they give them something interesting to watch after watching a vehicle go in circles for the 500th time.

Wow. If there was an award for least informed comment on the subject at hand...

[Proctopeo]

I don't watch it at all.

But I've seen people tune in around for them. I can't blame them. Seems fair they give them something interesting to watch after watching a vehicle go in circles for the 500th time.

Wow. If there was an award for least informed comment on the subject at hand...

IDK, racing is only otherwise interesting when crashes and other accidents happen, and you can just go watch NASCAR for those.
Real-life racing just isn't particularly interesting for most.

[Fartsniffage]

Wow. If there was an award for least informed comment on the subject at hand...

IDK, racing is only otherwise interesting when crashes and other accidents happen, and you can just go watch NASCAR for those.
Real-life racing just isn't particularly interesting for most.

In your opinion. Hundreds of millions watch F1 races.

[New haven america]

3. And yet I still see no mention of the women being used as sex/rape slaves. I like how you chose to leave that little part out. Quick question: Do you really think that they care about the supposed objectification of women elsewhere when they themselves are being treated as sex toys?

1.I actually did answer to that, by saying that such things happening in a very different part of the world are well beyond my reach.
2.I also add that, in different ways, the same is happening even in the west: there are western countries where sex trafficking is totally out of control, "thanks" to legalized prostitution. That isn't so different from the cases you cite: some reports are truly horrorifying.

3.Why are you resorting to the old, tiring, deflection tactics: "women are having it worse in X country, why don't you focus on them and, since women in the west are relatively well off compared to them, let us enjoy being paid more than women/using prostitutes/using porn/etc ?"

1. And I repeat what I said earlier: Bullshit.
2. There are almost no areas in the Western World where it's truly legal and regulared by the government. It's just decriminalized, those are two different things, do your research.
3. Maybe because you're supporting women losing their financial stability and options and touting that as actual progress, even though the women involved and women elsewhere in the world would much rather be Grid Girls compared to what they're currently doing. You tout this as progress when in reality it's setting women back.

[Cannot think of a name]

Wow. If there was an award for least informed comment on the subject at hand...

IDK, racing is only otherwise interesting when crashes and other accidents happen, and you can just go watch NASCAR for those.
Real-life racing just isn't particularly interesting for most.

We were not unclear on your position Re:racing.

[Chessmistress]

1.I actually did answer to that, by saying that such things happening in a very different part of the world are well beyond my reach.
2.I also add that, in different ways, the same is happening even in the west: there are western countries where sex trafficking is totally out of control, "thanks" to legalized prostitution. That isn't so different from the cases you cite: some reports are truly horrorifying.

3.Why are you resorting to the old, tiring, deflection tactics: "women are having it worse in X country, why don't you focus on them and, since women in the west are relatively well off compared to them, let us enjoy being paid more than women/using prostitutes/using porn/etc ?"

1. And I repeat what I said earlier: Bullshit.
2. There are almost no areas in the Western World where it's truly legal and regulared by the government. It's just decriminalized, those are two different things, do your research.
3. Maybe because you're supporting women losing their financial stability and options and touting that as actual progress, even though the women involved and women elsewhere in the world would much rather be Grid Girls compared to what they're currently doing. You tout this as progress when in reality it's setting women back.

1. You're probably young. It's a good thing to be young, but it have its flaws.
2. Prostitution, specifically brothels, are legal in a lot of countries: Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Greece, New Zealand, some parts of Australia and USA, and other countries. Prostitution have been decriminalized (but wth criminalizing those who buy women's bodies) in Sweden, Norway, Ireland, and other countries. The latter is, IMHO, the right solution, while the former is wrong.
3. Pandering to patriarchy isn't progress, is the opposite - my worldview is totally different from your: reducing yourself to a sexual object isn't advancement, is regress.

If you want to criticize my position on grid girls, and being taken seriously by me, then you shouldn't appeal to the capitalist "right" to sell everything, including dignity.
You could tell me that it's a minor issue, because the best way to end ALL such kind of pratices, just like the best way to end sexual harassment in the workplace, would be focusing on improving working conditions and the rights of all workers: that would be a serious discussion, and I would appreciate it, a lot.
Sadly, since this topic has been started, none has bring such idea: you seems all focused on the "right" to be treated as goods (specifically: sex objects) rather than human beings. That's why I said that I already have issues, due cultural differences, to explain my ideas with Americans, and by so some other cultures would be totally out of my reach.

[New haven america]

1. And I repeat what I said earlier: Bullshit.
2. There are almost no areas in the Western World where it's truly legal and regulared by the government. It's just decriminalized, those are two different things, do your research.
3. Maybe because you're supporting women losing their financial stability and options and touting that as actual progress, even though the women involved and women elsewhere in the world would much rather be Grid Girls compared to what they're currently doing. You tout this as progress when in reality it's setting women back.

1. You're probably young. It's a good thing to be young, but it have its flaws.
2. Prostitution, specifically brothels, are legal in a lot of countries: Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Greece, New Zealand, some parts of Australia and USA, and other countries. Prostitution have been decriminalized (but wth criminalizing those who buy women's bodies) in Sweden, Norway, Ireland, and other countries. The latter is, IMHO, the right solution, while the former is wrong.
3. Pandering to patriarchy isn't progress, is the opposite - my worldview is totally different from your: reducing yourself to a sexual object isn't advancement, is regress.

4.If you want to criticize my position on grid girls, and being taken seriously by me, then you shouldn't appeal to the capitalist "right" to sell everything, including dignity.
5.You could tell me that it's a minor issue, because the best way to end ALL such kind of pratices, just like the best way to end sexual harassment in the workplace, would be focusing on improving working conditions and the rights of all workers: that would be a serious discussion, and I would appreciate it, a lot.
6.Sadly, since this topic has been started, none has bring such idea: you seems all focused on the "right" to be treated as goods (specifically: sex objects) rather than human beings. That's why I said that I already have issues, due cultural differences, to explain my ideas with Americans, and by so some other cultures would be totally out of my reach.

1A. That's called a Red Herring, stop it, and 1B. In today's society there's actually very little you can't do, so stop playing the "Oh, it's too far...". You can donate to charities, you can do volunteer work, etc... So stop giving me bullshit excuses.
2A. And in most of those areas, it's also regulated by the government which makes it much safer, so my point still stands. 2B. You do realize that prohibiting something will just make it more wanted, right? Try taking a us history class, or are you too wise and mature for that?
3. And taking away people abilities to be financially independent is considered advancement? Also, you do realize that most of those women liked their job, right?
4. Me appealing to capitalism.
5. You're one to talk. I seem to recall you spouting things such as being a "Political Lesbian" due to misandry and how women need to take revenge over men, yet you expect serious discussions from people who know that you're incapable of doing so? Cute.
6. Everyone has the right to do what they want to their own body. Don't like it? Deal with it.

[New Raffica]

I don't watch F1 or racing so I don't even know what a grid girl is. (I'm assuming they're like cheerleaders?)

But to me it sounds like there are more women out of a job now, unless they were re-assigned to something different.

[Wedonland]

This is making me feel literally very sick.

Why can't I just escape to a different part of the world where there isn't a war on men's sex drives going on? Oh yeah, I can't be a "misogynist". As a guy who was mostly single and otherwise faced rejection his whole life, I do feel some kind of small sympathy with the MGTOW,etc movements. Why does society have to make things tougher for guys, when women don't have as bad in western countries as they did 100 years ago?

I don't always believe blanket claims that some groups make, but I can appreciate when a certain group gets too frustrated, they resort to this kind of radicalism.

[Russoslava]

Source
https://www.theglobeandmail.com///sport ... sf_globefb

Excerpt

There will be no more "grid girls" before Formula One races and no more "podium girls" celebrating with the drivers after them.

F1 said Wednesday it will end the long-standing practice of using women on the grid and on the podium with the top three drivers. The Formula One season starts on March 25 at the Australian Grand Prix.

"We feel this custom does not resonate with our brand values and clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms," said Sean Bratches, F1's managing director of commercial operations. "We don't believe the practice is appropriate or relevant to Formula One and its fans, old and new, across the world."

At previous F1 races, women dressed in uniform would walk out onto the grid shortly before the start and then stand in front of each driver's car, holding up the driver's number. Women would also stand alongside the winner on the podium after the race.

The changes also apply to other motorsports series – such as F2 – that take place on GP weekends.

Emphasis mine.

Personally I think this is a very good move to deconstruct gender roles: there were "heroes" - men - who drove the powerful cars, and then there were "grid girls", who were totally unrelated with actual racing, it was just only about giving to the male audience half-naked and silent women to the enjoyment of the male gaze, following and reinforcing the patriarchal relic of women as sexual rewards for the male "heroes" (not mentioning all the male audience staring at them).

The same is already happening in UK in darts (somewhat a sport, too): they did end the very similar, and similarly clearly patriarchal, practice of "walk girls".
I hope that it'll be extended even to the so called "podium girls" in motorbikes competition, I think that it's time for society to move forward.

What do you think, NSGs?

I don't support it. Isn't the Point of Feminism to give women the right to chose? If they want that job then let them have it. What this did is take that choice away and you made a bunch of women unemployed now. But hey, it okay because of Feminism.

[Chessmistress]

5. You're one to talk. I seem to recall you spouting things such as being a "Political Lesbian" due to misandry and how women need to take revenge over men, yet you expect serious discussions from people who know that you're incapable of doing so? Cute.

I'm addressing just only this point, for now.
I never said that "women need to take reveng over men".
Regarding "Political Lesbian" - this message have been posted exactly 50 minutes before your (check the timestamp, it's 7.54 pm, your is 8.44 pm):
viewtopic.php?p=33445597#p33445597
So, I unwillingly answered to that, in another topic.

[Chessmistress]

I don't support it. Isn't the Point of Feminism to give women the right to chose?

Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, Feminism is about women being equal to men, not just only de jure but also de facto.
Where are the grid boys sexually objectified by "female gaze" (even the idea is absurd, but let's pretend for a moment that it could happen)?
There aren't.
Now there are not even grid girls: seems equal - now - to me.
But it still lacks female drivers...

This may be a minor issue, but it's part of a system still keeping women down.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I don't support it. Isn't the Point of Feminism to give women the right to chose?

Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, Feminism is about women being equal to men, not just only de jure but also de facto.
Where are the grid boys sexually objectified by "female gaze" (even the idea is absurd, but let's pretend for a moment that it could happen)?
There aren't.
This may be a minor issue, but it's part of a system still keeping women down.

As opposed to you’re system, which wants to keep women down to empower them