Postgender

[The Stanistanistanistan Republic]

There are only two genders. Gender and sex are the same thing.

Thanks for your useful and not at all easily-debunked input! We could really use more people regurgitating this mantra without ever consulting the evidence or putting themselves in someone else's shoes, because who cares about empathy or facts? Whatever feels right to me must be right, amirite?

Yes, they do. Basically the only people who don't are stubborn jerks who don't realize that language changes over time and people who think nonbinary identities are fake, both of which tend to overlap to a great extent.

Here's the thing though: when language changes, it changes by itself naturally. People just pick up whatever is useful and add it to the language they already know almost automatically, people likely never notice it. English is a great example of that.

Notably, it doesn't include legal or emotional manipulation to force changes, nor would that ever work without extremely repressive measures. The fact that there's significant resistance to these changes these activists want to force just goes to show that it will never work and they're clearly doing something wrong and unnatural with the language. Or at least what they're proposing in particular for the changes is such.

....Okay, what? I give up.

[NeoOasis]

There are only two genders. Gender and sex are the same thing.

I mean sure, expect that they aren't.

[Salus Maior]

....Okay, what? I give up.

What exactly do you have a problem with?

[Zyr and Pony]

Not getting into the issue of genders outside male/female, as I'm not familiar enough with the subject matter in that area, but there are actual differences between the brains of transgender individuals and cisgender individuals of the same birth-sex pre-transition. Specifically, their brains are closer to their perceived gender than their birth sex. Scientific American has an interesting article on the subject, if you so wish to pursue it.

[Questers]

We all know what gender dysphoria is: it is a medical condition where one's gender identity, which we now know to be hardwired, does not correlate with one's sex. This is a widely documented medical phenomenon.

I argue that postgenderism, "I'm my own gender, " or "no gender" has zero to do with this. Such positions have no medical support, and are basically "I'm a special snowflake, short and stout."

What are your opinions on "postgender" theory?

Mostly agree. In some cultures theres a third gender but this is usually comprised of what in the west wed call transgender people. “There’s no binary” isan outcome of the growth of critical theory.

[Shikihara]

I see Transgenders as people who are delusional and need protection from their delusions while you see it differently.

We're not the ones who try to pluralize an adjective.

[Ifreann]

People use 'they' as a gender neutral singular pronoun and it works.

Not as a replacement for he/she, no.

You not liking it doesn't mean it doesn't work. In fact, you very clearly understand this usage of the word. So it's working just fine.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

We all know what gender dysphoria is: it is a medical condition where one's gender identity, which we now know to be hardwired, does not correlate with one's sex. This is a widely documented medical phenomenon.

I argue that postgenderism, "I'm my own gender, " or "no gender" has zero to do with this. Such positions have no medical support, and are basically "I'm a special snowflake, short and stout."

What are your opinions on "postgender" theory?

Why do you care what other people identify as? I don't see what anyone gains from forcing people to conform. Shouldn't people have a right to decide for themselves?

^This pretty much. Plus, agender people aren't special snowflakes. I think it's rather assholish to call them that just because OP doesn't agree with it.

Also, the reason there isn't a lot of medical data regarding agender people is that there hasn't been a lot of research devoted to it. However, that is changing. This article from Psychology Today abounds into the topic and may be enlightening to those who have a enchant for calling non-binary/agender/genderqueer people ''special snowflakes''.

[Neutraligon]

Why do you care what other people identify as? I don't see what anyone gains from forcing people to conform. Shouldn't people have a right to decide for themselves?

^This pretty much. Plus, agender people aren't special snowflakes. I think it's rather assholish to call them that just because OP doesn't agree with it.

Also, the reason there isn't a lot of medical data regarding agender people is that there hasn't been a lot of research devoted to it. However, that is changing. This article from Psychology Today abounds into the topic and may be enlightening to those who have a enchant for calling non-binary/agender/genderqueer people ''special snowflakes''.

Never understood why the term special snowflake came into existence. Anyway, nice to know someone thinks my gender (or lack thereof) makes me a special snowflake.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

^This pretty much. Plus, agender people aren't special snowflakes. I think it's rather assholish to call them that just because OP doesn't agree with it.

Also, the reason there isn't a lot of medical data regarding agender people is that there hasn't been a lot of research devoted to it. However, that is changing. This article from Psychology Today abounds into the topic and may be enlightening to those who have a enchant for calling non-binary/agender/genderqueer people ''special snowflakes''.

Never understood why the term special snowflake came into existence. Anyway, nice to know someone thinks my gender (or lack thereof) makes me a special snowflake.

I know, right? You're a special snowflake for pretty much asking for something as basic as being recognized as a human being. I guess that makes us all special snowflakes.

[Aillyria]

Never understood why the term special snowflake came into existence. Anyway, nice to know someone thinks my gender (or lack thereof) makes me a special snowflake.

I know, right? You're a special snowflake for pretty much asking for something as basic as being recognized as a human being. I guess that makes us all special snowflakes.

"Special snowflake" is basically pointed at people who think they're somehow exempt or outside of the reality of being a human, hence "special" (two sexes and two genders it this instance).

[Neutraligon]

I know, right? You're a special snowflake for pretty much asking for something as basic as being recognized as a human being. I guess that makes us all special snowflakes.

"Special snowflake" is basically pointed at people who think they're somehow exempt of outside of the reality of being a human, hence "special" (two sexes and two genders it this instance).

Except that people who are different genders are not claiming to not be human, in fact given this is about gender, it seems to me to be very much about the fact that we are human. There is nothing particularly "special" about being agender, at least no more "special" then being a man or woman.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I know, right? You're a special snowflake for pretty much asking for something as basic as being recognized as a human being. I guess that makes us all special snowflakes.

"Special snowflake" is basically pointed at people who think they're somehow exempt of outside or the reality of being a human, hence "special" (two sexes and two genders it this instance).

Except there aren't only two sexes and two genders.

[Aillyria]

"Special snowflake" is basically pointed at people who think they're somehow exempt of outside or the reality of being a human, hence "special" (two sexes and two genders it this instance).

Except there aren't only two sexes and two genders.

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

"Special snowflake" is basically pointed at people who think they're somehow exempt of outside of the reality of being a human, hence "special" (two sexes and two genders it this instance).

Except that people who are different genders are not claiming to not be human, in fact given this is about gender, it seems to me to be very much about the fact that we are human. There is nothing particularly "special" about being agender, at least no more "special" then being a man or woman.

Agender is a pretty extraordinary concept, actually. What basis is there in nature, as in human biology, for an individual being neither gender?

[Benjabobaria]

Gender dysphoria does not just mean switching from male to female or vice versa - it can mean having no gender at all. While most people - both cis and trans - are either male or female - some people aren't. There are always exceptions, and they're not hurting anyone.

[Benjabobaria]

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

Gender dysphoria is largely caused by genetic issues.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Except there aren't only two sexes and two genders.

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

Except there is. Psychology and sociology beg to differ with you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender#Ps ... _sociology

[Aillyria]

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

Gender dysphoria is largely caused by genetic issues.

I'm personally quite aware of that, but gender dysphoria itself isn't a gender.

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

Except there is. Psychology and sociology beg to differ with you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender#Ps ... _sociology

I'll give it a look.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Gender dysphoria is largely caused by genetic issues.

I'm personally quite aware of that, but gender dysphoria itself isn't a gender.

Except there is. Psychology and sociology beg to differ with you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender#Ps ... _sociology

I'll give it a look.

Check these two too: http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/ ... -identity/
https://www.bu.edu/news/2015/02/13/revi ... -identity/
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150213112317.htm (in case you can't open the Boston University on)

[Hatterleigh]

Except there have been much, much more societies that thought of gender as a binary,

Which changes nothing. The legitimacy of a social construct is not predicated by the sheer number of societies which embrace it. It's not a popularity contest.

and also of the societies that believed in a third gender, this was usually backed up by sexual orientations, gender dysphoria, or cultural reasonings. Not to mention that these societies were not scientifically advanced and there is no basis aside from cultural aspect in what these folks believed. Even in some of these more important cultures, many of the "third genders" are rather obscure.

In fact, a vast majority of these "Third Genders" correlate directly to intersex and transgender

None of what you said challenges the legitimacy of third genders.

There is no legitimacy of a third gender in the scientific world. If it's part of your culture, then that's fine, but it isn't backed by science. Also, I never implied that it was a popularity contest. All that i'm saying is that third genders would be much more prevalent in civilizations if it was just a social construct.

Even if gender was a social construct, there is no good reason to make it any more than a two-way system. A tiny fraction of a percent of people legitimately identify as some sort of special gender, and nobody's saying they can't, but the two extremes of this spectrum are so much more prevalent in society as legitimate mental states that said tiny fraction is irrelevant to the populace as a whole.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Which changes nothing. The legitimacy of a social construct is not predicated by the sheer number of societies which embrace it. It's not a popularity contest.


None of what you said challenges the legitimacy of third genders.

There is no legitimacy of a third gender in the scientific world. If it's part of your culture, then that's fine, but it isn't backed by science. Also, I never implied that it was a popularity contest. All that i'm saying is that third genders would be much more prevalent in civilizations if it was just a social construct.

Even if gender was a social construct, there is no good reason to make it any more than a two-way system. A tiny fraction of a percent of people legitimately identify as some sort of special gender, and nobody's saying they can't, but the two extremes of this spectrum are so much more prevalent in society as legitimate mental states that said tiny fraction is irrelevant to the populace as a whole.

You're an essentialist, pretty much. You pretty much think that men and women belong to fundamentally different categories that have some inherent basis (some "essence"), such that the categories have sharp and immutable boundaries, and such that members of the same category share many important similarities with each other. The (mostly mistaken) belief that men's and women's stereotypical characteristics do, in fact, come down to some immutable feature of one's biology.

[Neutraligon]

Except there aren't only two sexes and two genders.

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

Except that people who are different genders are not claiming to not be human, in fact given this is about gender, it seems to me to be very much about the fact that we are human. There is nothing particularly "special" about being agender, at least no more "special" then being a man or woman.

Agender is a pretty extraordinary concept, actually. What basis is there in nature, as in human biology, for an individual being neither gender?

The same thing that makes gender dysphoria exist at all.

[Hediacrana]

Also, the reason there isn't a lot of medical data regarding agender people is that there hasn't been a lot of research devoted to it. However, that is changing. This article from Psychology Today abounds into the topic and may be enlightening to those who have a enchant for calling non-binary/agender/genderqueer people ''special snowflakes''.

That's actually quite a nice article, thanks for bringing it to attention.

[Ifreann]

^This pretty much. Plus, agender people aren't special snowflakes. I think it's rather assholish to call them that just because OP doesn't agree with it.

Also, the reason there isn't a lot of medical data regarding agender people is that there hasn't been a lot of research devoted to it. However, that is changing. This article from Psychology Today abounds into the topic and may be enlightening to those who have a enchant for calling non-binary/agender/genderqueer people ''special snowflakes''.

Never understood why the term special snowflake came into existence. Anyway, nice to know someone thinks my gender (or lack thereof) makes me a special snowflake.

Some people were really, really into the Fight Club movie.

---

Except there aren't only two sexes and two genders.

There is zero proof of that, especially for the former. And no, obscure genetic conditions don't count.

It's easy to be right when you decide that anything that contradicts you doesn't count.

[Soyouso]

The whole nonbinary thing is bullshit and really has nothing to do with actual transsexualism other than that nonbinaries seem to want so badly to be transsexual. Gender is not a social construct because it is purely physiological, and plus you can't make up 1000 genders because it's "fake" and then get upset when anyone questions the validity of said fake gender, while also going on about how gender roles are bad, when all that these fake genders are based on, is how much one complies to said gender roles.

Sex dysphoria is a psychological disorder that causes much suffering for ones afflicted by it, there may be mostly only theories on how it actually arises, but the only thing that has ever proven to be effective at all is HRT. The main thing I noticed is that transsexuals generally seem like anyone else... but with nonbinaries and fake transsexuals such as trans activists perhaps, you could say, they always seem to be "that kind" of person.

Now, a "real" nonbinary person? As in, someone who experiences atypical dysphoria(meaning possessing either set of sex characteristics causes the individual dysphoria)? I still don't think that's possible, because it doesnt make sense biologically. If I were them, I would start wondering what were the causes of this atypical dysphoria, perhaps just body issues, insecurity, some sort of dissociation, or something trauma related as dysphoria-like symptoms can absolutely arise from these things, but the individual is not transsexual. (whereas in a transsexual individual, the dysphoria itself might cause such an experience, but never the other way around.)

Intersex people are always being used as an excuse, but hell, nobody acknowledges that those are medical conditions which are almost always harmful to the people who have them, each of those disorders can always ultimately be sorted under male or female, and I bet very, very few of them call themselves "nonbinary" or what have you.

So I'm not trans because you, a person who is not capable of entering my head and seeing what my dysphoria does, don't think so and would rather dismiss it as some other thing? This is just fucking insulting.