Should Felons be Allowed to Vote? Florida to Have Referendum

[Zarahosh]

I don't think they should be allowed to as a blanket restoration. I'm fine with them being able to have their rights restored if they've demonstrated that have been and want to continue to make changes in their lives, but this should be done on a case-by-case basis as in Virginia.

More importantly, we need criminal reform to stop felon-izing "petty" criminals and to end mandatory minimums. These (and other) steps would ensure a much reduced pool of felons trying to reclaim their rights anyway

[Infected Mushroom]

http://www.inpraiseofchina.com/is-the-c ... t-popular/

The Chinese government is popular with the Chinese, despite not being able to vote. And it shouldn't surprise anyone since their economy is doing so well and the perception is that there is a lot of economic progress.

You don't need to be able to vote for the people to support your government, you just have to do a good job. Also, you don't have a population of "terrorists" just because there isn't a right to vote.

Why should I trust the sight you linked? Also, there are elections in China, you are aware of that right (also in Russia)? And I note once again there are multiple groups actively trying to fight the government one was linked earlier in this very thread. You have shifted your claim which was that China and Russia do not have terrorists.

both are effectively single-party states (and the population understands as much)

[Neutraligon]

Why should I trust the sight you linked? Also, there are elections in China, you are aware of that right (also in Russia)? And I note once again there are multiple groups actively trying to fight the government one was linked earlier in this very thread. You have shifted your claim which was that China and Russia do not have terrorists.

both are effectively single-party states (and the population understands as much)

In China there are factions within the party. People vote for these factions.

Funny since I have accidentally committed a crime. Namely I used to study in a book store after school during high school. Once I finished I would read in their cafe. Once I forgot that I had a book with me when I put it with a pile of my own books, and walked out the store with it. I committed the crime of shoplifting accidentally (I realized I had the book 3-4 blocks away and went back to pay for it, but until I returned to pay for it I had committed a crime).

If you're not a convicted felon, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (and so should the system).

Irrelevant toy point, which was that it is possible to accidentally (ie not by choice) commit a crime.

[Zarahosh]

Crime is not a mistake, its a choice.

Funny since I have accidentally committed a crime. Namely I used to study in a book store after school during high school. Once I finished I would read in their cafe. Once I forgot that I had a book with me when I put it with a pile of my own books, and walked out the store with it. I committed the crime of shoplifting accidentally (I realized I had the book 3-4 blocks away and went back to pay for it, but until I returned to pay for it I had committed a crime).

If you don't live in the US, this may or may not be true, but...according to my law professor this semester, you cannot accidentally commit a crime, as crime requires intent. So, for example, forgetting you have a book that you did not purchase would not be a crime. The store owner might accuse you of committing a crime; police may charge you with committing a crime; but unless you purposefully sought to take the book without paying for it, it's not a crime. And, in court, the prosecutor would need to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that you did intend to take the book without paying for it in order for you to be convicted of a crime.

[Neutraligon]

Funny since I have accidentally committed a crime. Namely I used to study in a book store after school during high school. Once I finished I would read in their cafe. Once I forgot that I had a book with me when I put it with a pile of my own books, and walked out the store with it. I committed the crime of shoplifting accidentally (I realized I had the book 3-4 blocks away and went back to pay for it, but until I returned to pay for it I had committed a crime).

If you don't live in the US, this may or may not be true, but...according to my law professor this semester, you cannot accidentally commit a crime, as crime requires intent. So, for example, forgetting you have a book that you did not purchase would not be a crime. The store owner might accuse you of committing a crime; police may charge you with committing a crime; but unless you purposefully sought to take the book without paying for it, it's not a crime. And, in court, the prosecutor would need to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that you did intend to take the book without paying for it in order for you to be convicted of a crime.

I have another example, where I made the choice to take a stuffed animal from a table selling them for 50c...I most certainly chose to steal the animal, when I was 2. And I would not trust this system to take intent into consideration since there is no way for this system to determine intent. Would this system care about the age of the perpetrator?
As to shoplifting, I am pretty sure a log of people claim it is an accident.

[Infected Mushroom]

both are effectively single-party states (and the population understands as much)

In China there are factions within the party. People vote for these factions.

If you're not a convicted felon, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (and so should the system).

Irrelevant toy point, which was that it is possible to accidentally (ie not by choice) commit a crime.

They don't vote for the factions. Its top party members jockeying for power through internal "votes" only. People in China don't show up at ballot boxes with the understanding that they are effectively voting for competing parties within the CCP as part of a democratic process. Its understood as symbolic deference (heck Im not even sure THERE IS a ballot box in most cities in China). Whatever effective "voting" happens behind closed doors at the very top and we have no idea how it really works other than once every 4-5 years we can draw inference about which CCP person has more power based on they show up at a Communist gathering and how they are lined up.

I don't care about accidental committing of crimes, and I don't care about minor crimes. I only care about convicted felons with a demonstrated record for criminal activity.

[West Leas Oros]

http://www.inpraiseofchina.com/is-the-c ... t-popular/

The Chinese government is popular with the Chinese, despite not being able to vote. And it shouldn't surprise anyone since their economy is doing so well and the perception is that there is a lot of economic progress.

You don't need to be able to vote for the people to support your government, you just have to do a good job. Also, you don't have a population of "terrorists" just because there isn't a right to vote.

You've still yet to explain why you think this referendum should be voted down. I support the notion of prisoners not being allowed to vote but why should someone whose served their time and not gone back to prison be barred from elected office or voting?

Well if they are serious about becoming law abiding citizens, then sure. Otherwise it's too risky.

[San Lumen]

You've still yet to explain why you think this referendum should be voted down. I support the notion of prisoners not being allowed to vote but why should someone whose served their time and not gone back to prison be barred from elected office or voting?

Well if they are serious about becoming law abiding citizens, then sure. Otherwise it's too risky.

And how do you determine if they are serious?

[West Leas Oros]

Well if they are serious about becoming law abiding citizens, then sure. Otherwise it's too risky.

And how do you determine if they are serious?

Good question. Background Checks? Psychological Evaluation? Not sure.

[Al-Ismailiyya]

And how do you determine if they are serious?

Good question. Background Checks? Psychological Evaluation? Not sure.

You mean, something like a parole board?

[West Leas Oros]

Good question. Background Checks? Psychological Evaluation? Not sure.

You mean, something like a parole board?

Maybe.

[Bakery Hill]

And how do you determine if they are serious?

Good question. Background Checks? Psychological Evaluation? Not sure.

A lot of other people have committed crimes and haven't been caught, maybe we should perform those checks on them too?

[West Leas Oros]

Good question. Background Checks? Psychological Evaluation? Not sure.

A lot of other people have committed crimes and haven't been caught, maybe we should perform those checks on them too?

\(-_-)/ I dunno

[Ifreann]

Good question. Background Checks? Psychological Evaluation? Not sure.

A lot of other people have committed crimes and haven't been caught, maybe we should perform those checks on them too?

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

[San Lumen]

You mean, something like a parole board?

Maybe.

We already have that. Then after they are released on parole they can't vote.

[West Leas Oros]

Maybe.

We already have that. Then after they are released on parole they can't vote.

Well that's dumb.

[San Lumen]

We already have that. Then after they are released on parole they can't vote.

Well that's dumb.

Why is it dumb? Many states allow felons to vote after they released from prison

[Infected Mushroom]

Well that's dumb.

Why is it dumb? Many states allow felons to vote after they released from prison

its a sign of weakness from the government

[The South Falls]

Alright. I know I'm late, lemme state my opinion:
Felons should be allowed to vote. These felons, while they have committed crimes, unless they committed any kind of voter fraud, then they should be allowed to vote. What is the problem with letting Felons vote? They've already spent years in a cage, so why continue to punish them, especially for minor crimes like drug offenses. They are not going to undermine our civic process, so there should be no restriction on felons voting. Their citizens, and so they have that unalienable, indissoluble right to vote.

Tear it apart as much as you want.

[San Lumen]

Alright. I know I'm late, lemme state my opinion:
Felons should be allowed to vote. These felons, while they have committed crimes, unless they committed any kind of voter fraud, then they should be allowed to vote. What is the problem with letting Felons vote? They've already spent years in a cage, so why continue to punish them, especially for minor crimes like drug offenses. They are not going to undermine our civic process, so there should be no restriction on felons voting. Their citizens, and so they have that unalienable, indissoluble right to vote.

Tear it apart as much as you want.

I agree with you completely

[West Leas Oros]

Well that's dumb.

Why is it dumb? Many states allow felons to vote after they released from prison

Well good on those states.

[San Lumen]

Why is it dumb? Many states allow felons to vote after they released from prison

its a sign of weakness from the government

How is it a sign of weakness?

[Infected Mushroom]

its a sign of weakness from the government

How is it a sign of weakness?

Criminals thrive on the indulgences of society. If criminals are allowed to vote, then it means the government isn't stern enough.

[Ifreann]

How is it a sign of weakness?

Criminals thrive on the indulgences of society. If criminals are allowed to vote, then it means the government isn't stern enough.

No it doesn't.

[Canstan II]

How is it a sign of weakness?

Criminals thrive on the indulgences of society. If criminals are allowed to vote, then it means the government isn't stern enough.

*Ex-criminals. If they return to a life of crime, then they can be tried again and sent back. If they are considered too dangerous to no longer have their rights, then quite frankly they shouldn't be released to begin with. If one is deemed punished or preferably rehabilitated enough to reenter society, you should get your rights back.

And even like to see a system in place where, after a few years of good behavior, one can have their name hidden from most background checks unless it's a sensitive position/area one is seeking employment in.