Should Felons be Allowed to Vote? Florida to Have Referendum

[Oil exporting People]

Your first reason is completely absurd. Its not a deterrent. If your over 18 and a citizen you should have the right to vote. State legislator and other politicians dont sentence people. Judges do.

And politicans get to set voting rights on certain criteria. What's your point?

[Kubumba Tribe]

Good on Florida, this should be across all the US.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Voting is part of the Social Contract. The government rules you so long as you consent to that rule. You can withdraw consent by the ballot or, in extreme and extenuating circumstances, the bullet. The right to cast off an old government and the right to express one's consent to the government are enshrined in American law and in the Declaration of Independence.

What isn't enshrined, though, is the voting rights of those who have broken the Social Contract. If a person refuses to follow the law, he should not have the privilege of deciding who makes the law. Voting is an act to be expressed by upright, law-abiding men. Otherwise, you're more prone to vote on who is more soft on crime. That hurts society.

Enfranchisement can and should be revoked in circumstances such as that, unless you think letting rapists have a choice in governing the country and possibly cancelling out your preferred candidate is a good thing.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Your first reason is completely absurd. Its not a deterrent. If your over 18 and a citizen you should have the right to vote.

I take it that you're still young.
Start rubbing shoulders at the lunch-table with enough ex-convicts, and you'll figure out why they lost their right to vote.

Usually because they committed a felony, and probably aren't very apologetic about it around strangers. Some may even brag about it.

And then you watch them miss work because they got convicted yet again over the weekend.

Kinda like people here on the forums cruising for a perma-ban by spamming nothing but page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page of swastika-spam.

[The Widening Gyre]

What isn't enshrined, though, is the voting rights of those who have broken the Social Contract. If a person refuses to follow the law, he should not have the privilege of deciding who makes the law. Voting is an act to be expressed by upright, law-abiding men. Otherwise, you're more prone to vote on who is more soft on crime. That hurts society.

Great! Lets disenfranchise everyone who has ever gotten a parking ticket. They broke the social contract after all.

[Oil exporting People]

Great! Lets disenfranchise everyone who has ever gotten a parking ticket. They broke the social contract after all.

> TFW a parking ticket is a Felony

[Renoa]

All this nihilistic circular logic nonsense makes me want to beat my head against something hard until I don't feel anything anymore.

THAT SAID, if we are still operating under the pretext that prison time is to be served, at least in part, as a time for rehabilitation for reintroduction into society (This is the case I believe, unless the fact that many prisons are named "correctional institutes" is some sort of cruel joke), I see no reason why felons who have served their sentences should be disenfranchised. If we deem them ready to leave prison, we should be deeming them also worthy to be allowed back into society. If former felons are allowed to become my next door neighbor, buy a fast car and beer and propane tanks and other items that could be dangerous if used improperly, why shouldn't they be allowed to choose the next mayor of my town of a thousand people? Are they simultaneously "enemies of the state" (Dear God, that term sounds fascistic) and also redeemed wayward souls who have served their punishment and have been allowed to carouse in freedom once more?

Of course, we could get all of this frou-frou "rehabilitation" stuff out of the way and just take convicted criminals behind the barn and shoot them, but we haven't quite crossed that hump yet.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Great! Lets disenfranchise everyone who has ever gotten a parking ticket. They broke the social contract after all.

> TFW a parking ticket is a Felony

Only if you intentionally parallel-park your front wheel on top of a pregnant woman crossing the road and post pics on reddit claiming to be the pregnant woman you just ran over on a gofundme.

[Oil exporting People]

Only if you intentionally parallel-park your front wheel on top of a pregnant woman crossing the road and post pics on reddit.

Quick, everyone pull a James Fields.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Only if you intentionally parallel-park your front wheel on top of a pregnant woman crossing the road and post pics on reddit claiming to be the pregnant woman you just ran over on a gofundme..

Quick, everyone pull a James Fields.

Bonus points to your felony-score if the car was stolen at gunpoint.

[The Widening Gyre]

Great! Lets disenfranchise everyone who has ever gotten a parking ticket. They broke the social contract after all.

> TFW a parking ticket is a Felony

They're both breaches of The Social Contract. Surely its the breach that matters, not the nature of the breach.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think its in my blood, my whole family refrains from participating in the voting ritual, goes back generations

Im truly sorry to hear that. Voting isn't a ritual its a right.

except it doesn't do anything, we are ruled by capitalist overlords pulling the strings regardless; and from an individual point of view one vote doesn't do anything

[Greater Germany]

Nobody should have their voting rights restricted (except for anyone under 18) tbh.

Some people should, but a blanket ban due to felonies isn't the answer.

[Oil exporting People]

They're both breaches of The Social Contract. Surely its the breach that matters, not the nature of the breach.

Yes, but the The Social Contract also stipulates varying punishments for various infractions. I get you're trying to go the AnCap angle here by taking this to the logical extreme, but that's simple not what any of the promoters of the theory propagated.

[Fereria]

I somewhat doubt that many politicians would publicly support voting rights for felons. Somehow I doubt they would go out of their way to get the convict vote.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Nobody should have their voting rights restricted (except for anyone under 18) tbh.

Some people should, but a blanket ban due to felonies isn't the answer.

Felonies aren't handed out like gift baskets at the Oprah Winfrey show. Much as handing out a number like 1.5 million sounds like it in a state with a population of 21.00 million.

They actually are pretty selective, and require 13 people who've been lectured at length what a felony is to say "yep, that lad is guilty".

[Greater Germany]

Some people should, but a blanket ban due to felonies isn't the answer.

Felonies aren't handed out like gift baskets at the Oprah Winfrey show.

They actually are pretty selective, and require 13 people who've been lectured at length what a felony is to say "yep, that lad is guilty".

Yes, and... ?

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Felonies aren't handed out like gift baskets at the Oprah Winfrey show.

They actually are pretty selective, and require 13 people who've been lectured at length what a felony is to say "yep, that lad is guilty".

Yes, and... ?

It isn't really a blanket-ban.

Plus, the very matter of the ban was picked as part of the punishment of a felony, and those crimes were catagorized as felonies for that very punishment.

There are lesser crimes than felonies, and those people are still permitted to vote as it is.

Next up: Should perma-banned people from the forum be allowed to post on NSG?

[Greater Kossackia]

Yes, and... ?

It isn't really a blanket-ban.

Plus, the very matter of the ban was picked as part of the punishment of a felony, and those crimes were catagorized as felonies for that very punishment.

There are lesser crimes than felonies, and those people are still permitted to vote as it is.

Next up: Should perma-banned people from the forum be allowed to post on NSG?

So, you're honestly ignoring my post earlier detailing some of the ridiculous shit that are felonies in Florida?

[Greater Germany]

Yes, and... ?

It isn't really a blanket-ban.

Plus, the very matter of the ban was picked as part of the punishment of a felony, and those crimes were catagorized as felonies for that very punishment.

There are lesser crimes than felonies, and those people are still permitted to vote as it is.

If it's just for possessing a felony, it is a blanket-ban. There are things that shouldn't be felonies. Someone flashing their headlights to warn drivers to slow down because there's a speed trap up ahead, or who fakes a sick day, or who (like so many others) forgets to pay taxes on out of state purchases shouldn't be a felon and lose their right to vote over it.
So no.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Oh, you mean this....

Except there are things that are felonies in Florida that make no sense. A guy became a felon for air pollution when on Valentine's Day he released 12 balloons instead of giving her roses. That's insane.

The part you didn't tell, was that the balloons went into a lane of air-traffic in a landing-pattern. Which caused much of a ruckus and delayed/diverted many flights, causing several million dollars worth of damages and lost revenue.

Kinda like that old lady that threw loose change at an airliner engine and caused it to explode.

It isn't really a blanket-ban.

Plus, the very matter of the ban was picked as part of the punishment of a felony, and those crimes were catagorized as felonies for that very punishment.

There are lesser crimes than felonies, and those people are still permitted to vote as it is.

If it's just for possessing a felony, it is a blanket-ban. There are things that shouldn't be felonies. Someone flashing their headlights to warn drivers to slow down because there's a speed trap up ahead, or who fakes a sick day, or who (like so many others) forgets to pay taxes on out of state purchases shouldn't be a felon and lose their right to vote over it.
So no.

Except those aren't felonies.

1. Having your high beams on when facing oncoming traffic, although worthy of being called an asshole at night, is only really a traffic-violation and ticket.

2. Nobody cares about your sick days. It's when you fake a busted spine and claim worker's comp and start running insurance-fraud that gets you off the deep-end.
-Where I work, snow-days are sick-days. Because otherwise you'd never find a way to spend them.

3. At most, likely just an audit and a fine. Go back to work, keep paying taxes, and find a better agency to file your taxes next year.

[Greater Kossackia]

Oh, you mean this....

Except there are things that are felonies in Florida that make no sense. A guy became a felon for air pollution when on Valentine's Day he released 12 balloons instead of giving her roses. That's insane.

The part you didn't tell, was that the balloons went into a lane of air-traffic in a landing-pattern. Which caused much of a ruckus and delayed/diverted many flights, causing several million dollars worth of damages and lost revenue.

Kinda like that old lady that threw loose change at an airliner engine and caused it to explode.

If it's just for possessing a felony, it is a blanket-ban. There are things that shouldn't be felonies. Someone flashing their headlights to warn drivers to slow down because there's a speed trap up ahead, or who fakes a sick day, or who (like so many others) forgets to pay taxes on out of state purchases shouldn't be a felon and lose their right to vote over it.
So no.

Except those aren't felonies.

1. Having your high beams on when facing oncoming traffic, although worthy of being called an asshole at night, is only really a traffic-violation and ticket.

2. Nobody cares about your sick days. It's when you fake a busted spine and claim worker's comp and start running insurance-fraud that gets you off the deep-end.
-Where I work, snow-days are sick-days.

3. At most, likely just an audit and a fine. Go back to work, keep paying taxes, and find a better agency to file your taxes next year.

Actually, it was a conviction for harm to animals. I'm all for keeping animals unharmed, but this is something that should be a misdemeanor. Much like the person convicted of disturbing turtle eggs. It's an over reaction and removing voting rights for it is ridiculous. Streaking, an dumb college prank that should at most net you fine and an embarrassing phone call with your parents, will net you a felony if a child sees you (not to mention the lifetime on a sexual predator database).

[Hurtful Thoughts]

tl;dr: That moment when you post something, thinking it's ridiculous, and one of the most libertarian people posting offers death penalty as the alternative to a felony-charge....

Oh, you mean this....
The part you didn't tell, was that the balloons went into a lane of air-traffic in a landing-pattern. Which caused much of a ruckus and delayed/diverted many flights, causing several million dollars worth of damages and lost revenue.

Kinda like that old lady that threw loose change at an airliner engine and caused it to explode.

Except those aren't felonies.

1. Having your high beams on when facing oncoming traffic, although worthy of being called an asshole at night, is only really a traffic-violation and ticket.

2. Nobody cares about your sick days. It's when you fake a busted spine and claim worker's comp and start running insurance-fraud that gets you off the deep-end.
-Where I work, snow-days are sick-days.

3. At most, likely just an audit and a fine. Go back to work, keep paying taxes, and find a better agency to file your taxes next year.

Actually, it was a conviction for harm to animals. I'm all for keeping animals unharmed, but this is something that should be a misdemeanor. Much like the person convicted of disturbing turtle eggs. It's an over reaction and removing voting rights for it is ridiculous. Streaking, an dumb college prank that should at most net you fine and an embarrassing phone call with your parents, will net you a felony if a child sees you (not to mention the lifetime on a sexual predator database).

Disturbing the nest and nesting habits of an endangered animal is a federal felony, and counts as 1st degree animal cruelty.

And don't even get me started on what's in store if you shoot an albino deer up here, wearing a badge at the time won't save you. You're generally gonna get branded town-asshole of the century. (That deputy had to move-out, as some people were motioning for the death-penalty)
/triggered

As for streaking... when your frat sez they did it, or will do with you... they's lying.

[Greater Germany]

Except those aren't felonies.

They're all things that led to the perpetrators being charged for felonies with. A driver flashing his lights was charged with felony obstruction of justice, a person who faked a sick day was charged with a scheme to defraud their place of employment (a felony), failure to pay state taxes in certain states on out of state purchases can earn you a felony.

Honestly, if you're going to assert all things that are felonies are fine and should earn you your disenfranchisement, you might want to know what all can earn you a felon status.

[NeoOasis]

Im truly sorry to hear that. Voting isn't a ritual its a right.

except it doesn't do anything, we are ruled by capitalist overlords pulling the strings regardless; and from an individual point of view one vote doesn't do anything

It doesn't do anything until an entire group of people decide to vote. Suddenly a Democrat has won what was a deeply conservative state by a fairly small margin. Allowing over a million people to vote will have a substantial impact even if only half decide to vote. Presidental elections have been decided with smaller margins in the past.

I'd say the felony thing shouldn't be an all or nothing thing. Not all felonies are equivalent. Personally I think non-violent felonies should be allowed to vote, and violent offenders should be taken in on a case by case basis. Denying voting rights is a bit unfair considering the criminal has already paid for their crimes with prison time... continuing to punish them after the fact seems a bit weird.