Should Felons be Allowed to Vote? Florida to Have Referendum

[Telconi]

I already answered that question, perhaps you could answer mine.

No you didn't. You merely said I said so.

To answer your question the answer is no.

So why is felony disenfranchisement racist if simply disproportionately effecting people doesn't inherently make a law biased?

[San Lumen]

No you didn't. You merely said I said so.

To answer your question the answer is no.

So why is felony disenfranchisement racist if simply disproportionately effecting people doesn't inherently make a law biased?

because it effects non whites more than that of whites by a wide margin. Speeding and voting are not in the same league

Now i would like a valid reason why you would vote for or against this amendment if it was on your ballot in November.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Because they have just re entered society and most likely they spent there time in prison wanting to rejoin society.

And after they have shown themselves capable of being in society they can file a request to have their civil rights restored. The procedure varies by state but it is there.

They have shown that already be being released from prison.

Why buld up red tape when it can just be automatic?

That's part as one punishment and going to AA while paying for a DUI fine doesn't remove human rights.


So the Bill of Rights doesn't exist?

And going to prison and losing franchis is part of one punishment. And losing franchise doesn't remove a human right either.

It does, so does "The Cat in the Hat", and both are completely irrelevant to the existence of human righta.

It does when you can't vote and voting is established as a right in the US's Constitution.

So, the rights guaranteed by the Bill Of Rights have nothing to with human rights in the US.

What?

[Hurtful Thoughts]

So? Males are more likely to receive speeding tickets. Does that make speed limits sexist?

To answer your question the answer is no.

So if it isn't sexist, the speed limit should not be aboloished on the grounds of sexism, right?

Therefore, since felonies aren't racist, felonies should not be abolished or carte-blanche forgiven en-masse.

Any arguement that being convicted by peers for high-crimes is racist, can also be applied to the hypothetical repeal of speed limits for men.

[Uxupox]

if they are going to be still in jail when the elected representative is currently in power then no they shouldn't. If vice-versa is true then they should be allowed.

[San Lumen]

To answer your question the answer is no.

So if it isn't sexist, the speed limit should not be aboloished on the grounds of sexism, right?

Therefore, since felonies aren't racist, felonies should not be abolished or carte-blanche forgiven en-masse.

No one asked for felonies to be forgiven merely to restore voting rights after your sentence is over.

[Greater Kossackia]

This November in Florida the voting rights of 1.5 million people could be restored as their will be vote on a constitutional amendment to restore voting rights to felons. It needs 60 percent of the vote to pass. The amendment will not give those currently serving the right to vote, those on parole or probation or those guilty of crimes such as murder or sexual offenses.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fl ... 07ab01?r1h
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1 ... rom-voting

Florida is not the only state that disenfranchises felons. It occurs in many places and many analysts have said its a form of Jim Crow as is disproportionately affects non whites. I fully support this amendment and hope it passes. One should not be permanently barred from voting just because they've committed a crime. If you've served your time you should be able to vote. It makes no logical sense to bar someone from voted just because they committed a crime.

What's your thoughts NSG?

It also affects white felons, though.

Key word here being convicted felons unanimously found guilty (no dissent or reasonable doubt) in a trial by thirteen of their peers in a crimminal court.

So not "a" crime, but usually a rather serious one like "cold blooded murder in front of the police officer that arrested them, and several other witnesses".

The statisic that this comprises of mostly darker skinned people is merely a coincidence.

Also, would this apply also to repeat offenders?
(Also, statistically, 60% of those felons ARE repeat offenders. So this would essentially be forgiving a million of them of a half dozen serious crimes and re-enstating their ability to legally buy a gun and/or vote)

Except there are things that are felonies in Florida that make no sense. I guy became a felon for air pollution when on Valentine's Day he released 12 balloons instead of giving her roses. That's insane.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

if they are going to be still in jail when the elected representative is currently in power then no they shouldn't. If vice-versa is true then they should be allowed.

Oooh, that'd be fun, giving the right to vote to someone that tried to kill you*.

*by "you" I mean the elected congressman, not the reader.

[San Lumen]

if they are going to be still in jail when the elected representative is currently in power then no they shouldn't. If vice-versa is true then they should be allowed.

again this amendment does not allow those currently incarcerated to vote.

[Telconi]

So why is felony disenfranchisement racist if simply disproportionately effecting people doesn't inherently make a law biased?

because it effects non whites more than that of whites by a wide margin. Speeding and voting are not in the same league

Now i would like a valid reason why you would vote for or against this amendment if it was on your ballot in November.

So what margin makes a law biased? If a demographic is 150% more likely to be cited? 200% 500%?

Also, I have given you the answer on the initial OP, more than once.

[Uxupox]

if they are going to be still in jail when the elected representative is currently in power then no they shouldn't. If vice-versa is true then they should be allowed.

Oooh, that'd be fun, giving the right to vote to someone that tried to kill you.

Not every felon is a murderer but I do agree that restrictions must exist on some certain cases.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

if they are going to be still in jail when the elected representative is currently in power then no they shouldn't. If vice-versa is true then they should be allowed.

again this amendment does not allow those currently incarcerated to vote.

Those out on bail or parole?

Escaped felons?

Felonies are, by and large doing stuff that causes significant bodily or financial harm to another person. Rape, murder, and armed robbery come to mind.

[San Lumen]

again this amendment does not allow those currently incarcerated to vote.

Those out on bail or parole?

Escaped felons?

parole and bail are excluded too and obviously escaped felons.

[VoVoDoCo]

The appeal to racial equality blurs what makes the referendum TRULY a necessity. They should be able to vote, not because most of them are black, but because they're Americans who are guaranteed the right to.

Otherwise, one could say the solution isn't giving felons the right to vote, but taking away the right to vote for more white-centric crimes to equalize the damage. Which is psychotic.

[Oil exporting People]

Florida is not the only state that disenfranchises felons. It occurs in many places and many analysts have said its a form of Jim Crow as is disproportionately affects non whites.

I've always found this claim funny, given what they are tacitly admitting with claiming it.

[San Lumen]

Florida is not the only state that disenfranchises felons. It occurs in many places and many analysts have said its a form of Jim Crow as is disproportionately affects non whites.

I've always found this claim funny, given what they are tacitly admitting with claiming it.

i dont understand.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Oooh, that'd be fun, giving the right to vote to someone that tried to kill you.

Not every felon is a murderer but I do agree that restrictions must exist on some certain cases.

Well, going through a quick-list on what a felony is, and keeping in mind that in America, being convicted of it means 13 of your peers, selected by their defense attorney found you guilty w/o any reservations and may god have mercy on their soul.

Killing people
Trying to kill people
Killing people you didn't plan on
Animal cruelty
Intentionally murdering people with your car
Conning people out of their life savings
Burning shit that isn't yours
Stealing shit that isn't yours
Tax evasion
Identity-theft
Massive drug dealer
Stealing expensive stuff
Blowing up government property
Treason and/or threatening to kill important people
Rape and Child porn
Kidnapping and human tafficking (running a prostitution ring tends to fall here)
Obstruction of justice and Perjury
Violating parole, probation, or recognizance bond

So which ones gonna get pardoned?

[San Lumen]

Not every felon is a murderer but I do agree that restrictions must exist on some certain cases.

Well, going through a quick-list on what a felony is, and keeping in mind that in America, being convicted of it means 13 of your peers, selected by their defense attorney found you guilty w/o any reservations and may god have mercy on their soul.

Killing people
Trying to kill people
Killing people you didn't plan on
Animal cruelty
Intentionally murdering people with your car
Conning people out of their life savings
Burning shit that isn't yours
Stealing shit that isn't yours
Tax evasion
Identity-theft
Massive drug dealer
Stealing expensive stuff
Blowing up government property
Treason and/or threatening to shoot the mayor
Rape and Child porn
Kidnapping
Obstruction of justice and Perjury
Violating parole, probation, or recognizance bond

So which ones gonna get pardoned?

This is not about pardoning people its about giving those who served their time the right to vote.

[Uxupox]

Not every felon is a murderer but I do agree that restrictions must exist on some certain cases.

Well, going through a quick-list on what a felony is, and keeping in mind that in America, being convicted of it means 13 of your peers, selected by their defense attorney found you guilty w/o any reservations and may god have mercy on their soul.

Killing people
Trying to kill people
Killing people you didn't plan on
Animal cruelty
Intentionally murdering people with your car
Conning people out of their life savings
Burning shit that isn't yours
Stealing shit that isn't yours
Tax evasion
Identity-theft
Massive drug dealer
Stealing expensive stuff
Blowing up government property
Treason and/or threatening to shoot the mayor
Rape and Child porn
Kidnapping and human tafficking (running a prostitution ring tends to fall here)
Obstruction of justice and Perjury
Violating parole, probation, or recognizance bond

So which ones gonna get pardoned?

hmmmm.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

I'm sure pushing Florida down the path of being a permanent blue state will be a wonderful idea, and I am sure the rightists in Florida will go along with it.

-but no, felons should not be allowed to vote. It is not only a deterrent, it prevents politicians from pandering to criminals, like promising lesser sentences or rewards in exchange for their loyalty. If the criminal underclass can vote, that means they become a demographic to target. Pandering to criminals hurts society significantly.

Here's an example. While I support the legalization of marijuana for all purposes, it is currently illegal to sell it, so I always obey that law (I would never consume or combust pot myself). If a referendum comes to pass to legalize cannabis, I will exercise my voting power to affirm legalization.

However, if felons could vote, then everyone who has been convicted of marijuana possession- IIRC, it's a felony in Florida -now gets to vote in something where they have a massively vested conflict of interest. They WILL vote for it. The same goes with robbing Peter to pay Paul, and for welfare recipients in general.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

This is not about pardoning people its about giving those who served their time the right to vote.

If the government wanted such people to retain the right to vote, those crimes would've been misdemeanors.

Time served incacerated is only the tip of the iceburg of their punishment.

[Oil exporting People]

This is not about pardoning people its about giving those who served their time the right to vote.

Okay, and from that list who deserves their right to vote? That's the question he's presenting; you can couch in all the rhetoric you like, but you're still proposing individuals of this particular moral character get their right to vote back.

i dont understand.

In that case, I doubt you ever will to be blunt.

[San Lumen]

I'm sure pushing Florida down the path of being a permanent blue state will be a wonderful idea, and I am sure the rightists in Florida will go along with it.

-but no, felons should not be allowed to vote. It is not only a deterrent, it prevents politicians from pandering to criminals, like promising lesser sentences or rewards in exchange for their loyalty. If the criminal underclass can vote, that means they become a demographic to target. Pandering to criminals hurts society significantly.

Here's an example. While I support the legalization of marijuana for all purposes, it is currently illegal to sell it, so I always obey that law (I would never consume or combust pot myself). If a referendum comes to pass to legalize cannabis, I will exercise my voting power to affirm legalization.

However, if felons could vote, then everyone who has been convicted of marijuana possession- IIRC, it's a felony in Florida -now gets to vote in something where they have a massively vested conflict of interest. They WILL vote for it. The same goes with robbing Peter to pay Paul, and for welfare recipients in general.

Your first reason is completely absurd. Its not a deterrent. If your over 18 and a citizen you should have the right to vote. State legislator and other politicians dont sentence people. Judges do.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Florida is not the only state that disenfranchises felons. It occurs in many places and many analysts have said its a form of Jim Crow as is disproportionately affects non whites. I fully support this amendment and hope it passes. One should not be permanently barred from voting just because they've committed a crime. If you've served your time you should be able to vote. It makes no logical sense to bar someone from voted just because they committed a crime.

^
I've always found this claim funny, given what they are tacitly admitting with claiming it.

i dont understand.

Leftists claim there is a conspiracy to incarcerate blacks at a disproportionate rate. It's almost like blacks, who make up thirteen percent of the population, commit a disproportionate amount of crime in relation to their demographic size. Thus, they end up in prison more often. Likewise, there is definitely a conspiracy to put men on Death Row at a disproportionate rate. As it turns out, men commit a disproportionate amount of capital crimes. Thus, they end up on Death Row more often.

If the prison system is racist for imprisoning blacks because of their disproportionate crime rate (relative to their population), then the prison system is also racist for executing more men because of their disproportionate capital crime rate. Furthermore, the system is racist against whites because whites are the most likely to go to prison for white-collar crimes.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

I'm sure pushing Florida down the path of being a permanent blue state will be a wonderful idea, and I am sure the rightists in Florida will go along with it.

-but no, felons should not be allowed to vote. It is not only a deterrent, it prevents politicians from pandering to criminals, like promising lesser sentences or rewards in exchange for their loyalty. If the criminal underclass can vote, that means they become a demographic to target. Pandering to criminals hurts society significantly.

Here's an example. While I support the legalization of marijuana for all purposes, it is currently illegal to sell it, so I always obey that law (I would never consume or combust pot myself). If a referendum comes to pass to legalize cannabis, I will exercise my voting power to affirm legalization.

However, if felons could vote, then everyone who has been convicted of marijuana possession- IIRC, it's a felony in Florida -now gets to vote in something where they have a massively vested conflict of interest. They WILL vote for it. The same goes with robbing Peter to pay Paul, and for welfare recipients in general.

Your first reason is completely absurd. Its not a deterrent. If your over 18 and a citizen you should have the right to vote. State legislator and other politicians dont sentence people. Judges do.

Legislators do determine whether the crime is to be considered a felony or a misdemeanor, and the minumum and maximum admissable sentancing of the crime as a deterant.

Judges only determine where on that sliding scale they belong if found guilty. Determining guilt is via jury.

Executive branch is in charge of enforcing the law. And as such detmine how pleasant your stay at Hanoi Hilton shall be.