Anti Capitalist Discussion Thread I: Seize the toothbrushes!

[Dagashi Shoujo]

Idk about that, now.

It's certainly debateable, which is why I didn't add it in the POLL. I'm willing to grant Distributionism, but Corporatism just seems like hyper Capitalism with class collaboration and a fat state.

Corporatism has been around a lot longer than capitalism; and is an inherent component to distributism.

[Dagashi Shoujo]

though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism),

"Might."

Literally all strains of Fascism have their origins in socialism and anti-capitalism.

[Nova Anglicana]

I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?

I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.

So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.

[Dejanic]

It's certainly debateable, which is why I didn't add it in the POLL. I'm willing to grant Distributionism, but Corporatism just seems like hyper Capitalism with class collaboration and a fat state.

Corporatism has been around a lot longer than capitalism; and is an inherent component to distributism.

It's a component, but it's also a component of Capitalism. Which is why I'm not convinced it's a separate means of production or economic system. Capitalist relations still exist under Corporatism.

You are right however that Corporatism did exist pre-Capitalism (Plato, Absolutist Corporatism), but it's fair to distinguish such pre Corporatist ideologies from post Capitalist Corporatism which is almost wholly Fascistic. I don't think I've ever met a Corporatist who believed in such pre-Capitalist Corporatism?

Fascistic Corporatism is inherently based around Capitalist structures, and around class collaboration. Socialism is based around class abolition. Many Fascist Corporatists were former Socialists, but the ideology in theory and practise doesn't look to end the Capitalist mode of production, merely evolve it and warp it.

[Dejanic]

I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?

I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.

So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.

I suggest you keep on reading and see where your thoughts lead you. Have you ever read Marx or any other Socialist Literature?

[Al-Ismailiyya]

>Marxist-Leninist-Obamaism

Is this actually a thing or are you just meming?

[Dejanic]

>Marxist-Leninist-Obamaism

Is this actually a thing or are you just meming?

Meming.

[Al-Ismailiyya]

>Marxist-Leninist-Obamaism

Is this actually a thing or are you just meming?

Meming.

You had me concerned there for a sec. Poe's Law applies way too often on this forum.

[Aillyria]

though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism),

"Might."

Literally all strains of Fascism have their origins in socialism and anti-capitalism.

Fascism originated from socially conservative or anti-liberal revolutionary syndicalism, namely Sorelian syndicalism (the branch of syndicalism I come closest to). I'd say fascism plays lip service to socialist rhetoric, but it's social theory isn't compatible with socialism in practice.

[Nova Anglicana]

I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?

I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.

So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.

I suggest you keep on reading and see where your thoughts lead you. Have you ever read Marx or any other Socialist Literature?

My friend is a Marxist (of sorts) and a democratic socialist (in the actual sense, not in the Bernie Sanders actually a New Deal Democrat sort of sense), my thesis advisor was a Marxist, and I am a politics/ideology junkie. While I haven't read Capital, I understand the teleology of Marxist thought and I know the basics of socialism, etc. I'm just not a big believer in the "history of society is the history of class struggle". I'm a Keynesian. I know that makes me a dirty sellout/capitalist here.

[Thermodolia]

While I’m not purely against capitalism I do support and have a few syndicalist leanings

[Thermodolia]

What about far right like National Socialism and Fascism? And it's not only these two, there more than a dozen of Far right ideologies that despise Communism, where are they?

Nazism is not anti-capitalist, and though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism), being against communism is usually good indicator that something is not anti-capitalist

But being against communism doesn’t mean that you are for capitalism. It’s not an either or thing

[Dejanic]

Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?

[The Grene Knyght]

Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?

W-what? B-b-but I thought Socialism was having high taxes, capitalism was owning guns, and fascism was when the NS mods ban you for spamming white supremacist talking points...

Is everything I know a lie..?

[Italios]

I suggest you keep on reading and see where your thoughts lead you. Have you ever read Marx or any other Socialist Literature?

My friend is a Marxist (of sorts) and a democratic socialist (in the actual sense, not in the Bernie Sanders actually a New Deal Democrat sort of sense), my thesis advisor was a Marxist, and I am a politics/ideology junkie. While I haven't read Capital, I understand the teleology of Marxist thought and I know the basics of socialism, etc. I'm just not a big believer in the "history of society is the history of class struggle". I'm a Keynesian. I know that makes me a dirty sellout/capitalist here.

marxist =/= democratic socialist

Nazism is not anti-capitalist, and though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism), being against communism is usually good indicator that something is not anti-capitalist

But being against communism doesn’t mean that you are for capitalism. It’s not an either or thing

yes, but in the case of nazis, being against communists doesn't mean they support a socialist alternative.

Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?

A result of a reflection of the liberal values we were founded upon (namely property rights) and the Cold War and the Red Scares (the 1920s and 1950s-1960s), which have basically come together to form an ideological hegemony that obviously supports the system in which this country exists.

edit: the school thing depends were you go and who your teachers are. in public grade school, you're not allowed to be fed pure ideology™ by a teacher, but you end up getting a lot of misinformation from the curriculum itself. college experiences differ vastly, as do the way people respond to them.

[Dejanic]

Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?

W-what? B-b-but I thought Socialism was having high taxes, capitalism was owning guns, and fascism was when the NS mods ban you for spamming white supremacist talking points...

Is everything I know a lie..?

basicaly

socialism=Sweden, its basikaly a society with more equal stuff and free healthcare. remember usa is technicaly socialist cos of government military
communism=dicktatorship, where government runs everything and kils people in gulag. communism is right wing and an enemie of liberalism
fascism=communism 4 bigots. fare right and left r same, horsepoo theory
anarkhizm=chaos and the sex pistols

[Major-Tom]

I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?

I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.

So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.

I agree wholeheartedly with this gent. Basically said what I was too fatigued to say.

[MERIZoC]

(Image)

This man comes up and slaps yo girls ass. WYD?

this man spends his life advancing the rights of albanian women, who, until his rise to power, were equal to a sack of flour under traditional albanian law, and you think he would objectify a woman like that? sickening.

You are right, comrade.

[MERIZoC]

I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?

You should look into degrowth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth

[Taihei Tengoku]

I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?

You should look into degrowth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth

I hope you all live to ripe old age in good health so you can demand economic growth to pay for your pensions

[MERIZoC]

You should look into degrowth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth

I hope you all live to ripe old age in good health so you can demand economic growth to pay for your pensions

coolio

[Being Very Gay]

Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?

Mostly comes from Scandinavia-esque Social Democracy often being mistakenly called socialism. I believe the reason for this was the guy responsible for many of Sweden's economic reforms (Olof Palme) being a reformist socialist.

[Collatis]

I've essentially become a supporter of market socialism, in the manner that John Stuart Mill described and advocated for: “The form of association, however, which if mankind continue to improve, must be expected in the end to predominate, is not that which can exist between a capitalist as chief, and work-people without a voice in the management, but the association of the labourers themselves on terms of equality, collectively owning the capital with which they carry on their operations, and working under managers elected and removable by themselves.”

socialism=Sweden, its basikaly a society with more equal stuff and free healthcare. remember usa is technicaly socialist cos of government military
communism=dicktatorship, where government runs everything and kils people in gulag. communism is right wing and an enemie of liberalism
fascism=communism 4 bigots. fare right and left r same, horsepoo theory
anarkhizm=chaos and the sex pistols

Sounds about right.

[Bakery Hill]

I've essentially become a supporter of market socialism, in the manner that John Stuart Mill described and advocated for: “The form of association, however, which if mankind continue to improve, must be expected in the end to predominate, is not that which can exist between a capitalist as chief, and work-people without a voice in the management, but the association of the labourers themselves on terms of equality, collectively owning the capital with which they carry on their operations, and working under managers elected and removable by themselves.”

socialism=Sweden, its basikaly a society with more equal stuff and free healthcare. remember usa is technicaly socialist cos of government military
communism=dicktatorship, where government runs everything and kils people in gulag. communism is right wing and an enemie of liberalism
fascism=communism 4 bigots. fare right and left r same, horsepoo theory
anarkhizm=chaos and the sex pistols

Sounds about right.

Now all you need to do is shed that bizarre and disastrous foreign policy.

[Collatis]

Now all you need to do is shed that bizarre and disastrous foreign policy.