NationStates

Telconi wrote:

Hurdergaryp wrote:Last summer I went on holiday to Normandy. Quite a few Americans were violent against nazis there, and that was an extremely good thing.

Those Nazis weren't Americans...

Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Kavagrad wrote:

Telconi wrote:
Those Nazis weren't Americans...

Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Tbqh we should go back to the good ol days when we crushed both extremes.

Kavagrad wrote:Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

Because socialism is awesome, and fascism is the opposite.

Probably because fascism had more of a direct cause to the deadliest conflict in human history than socialism and communism.

Claorica wrote:

Wallenburg wrote:You, regarding the question in the title. In a country where our government won't even condemn violence committed by neo-Nazis, fascism is not receiving nearly as much opposition as communism.

You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

Oh hey gonna need sauce for that.

Vassenor wrote:

Claorica wrote:
You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

Oh hey gonna need sauce for that.

You genuinely need a source to say that a group of violent terrorists would not have caused violence if they had not been present?

Purpelia wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Oh hey gonna need sauce for that.

You genuinely need a source to say that a group of violent terrorists would not have caused violence if they had not been present?

For the accusation that it started when the counter-protesters struck first, yes.

Vassenor wrote:

Purpelia wrote:You genuinely need a source to say that a group of violent terrorists would not have caused violence if they had not been present?

For the accusation that it started when the counter-protesters struck first, yes.

A counter protest from a registered violent terrorist organization is in its own right a threat of violence. And last time I checked in america you can respond with force legitimately to ward off a threat of direct violence. E.G. if someone points a gun at you than you don't have to wait for him to fire in order for it to count as self defense.

I can think of a few reasons, but I would say their ideas are more easily accepted by a liberal ideology than fascists, their systems manage to last longer than fascists, and they like to at least attempt more of an overarching theory to their intents and ends compared to fascists.

Purpelia wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
For the accusation that it started when the counter-protesters struck first, yes.

A counter protest from a registered violent terrorist organization is in its own right a threat of violence. And last time I checked in america you can respond with force legitimately to ward off a threat of direct violence. E.G. if someone points a gun at you than you don't have to wait for him to fire in order for it to count as self defense.

And can you prove that said "registered violent terrorist organization" (whatever the hell that means) was even present?

Especially when we have evidence that the neo-nazis were planning to start violence no matter what.

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/data-release-unite-right-planning-chats-demonstrate-violent-intent/

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/data-release-discord-chats-planned-armed-neo-nazi-militia-operations-charlottesville/

And video of them starting shit.

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/white-supremacist-mob-carrying-torches-attacks-anti-racist-protesters-charlottesville/

Oil exporting People wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

When libertarian socialists start advocating or carrying out the killing of entire racial groups, you'll have a valid point.

Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence that the neo-nazis were planning to start violence no matter what.

Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence

Vassenor wrote:evidence

Vassenor wrote:https://www.unicornriot.ninja/

You never fail to crack me up.

Kavagrad wrote:

Oil exporting People wrote:
Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

When libertarian socialists start advocating or carrying out the killing of entire racial groups, you'll have a valid point.

You're advocating the killing of entire ideological groups and nationalities, what is your point?

Trumptonium wrote:

Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence that the neo-nazis were planning to start violence no matter what.

Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence

Vassenor wrote:evidence

Vassenor wrote:https://www.unicornriot.ninja/

You never fail to crack me up.

Was there an actual point you were trying to make or were you just desperately searching for a cheap gotcha?

You'll find very few left-wingers (who are not ardent supporters of authoritarian 'socialist' regimes) who deny that events like the purges, mass imprisonment, suspension of rights and Holodomor or other famines/failures are atrocities.

But laying them at the feet of "socialism/communism" is like saying the Great Depression was the result of fascist policy because the American industrialists of that time all looked up to Hitler. Yes, they were right-leaning, pro-corporate capitalist models of governance but were fundamentally dissimilar. Much like the USSR is fundamentally different to libertarian socialism or social democracy (which are also fundamentally different to each other) though all 3 are left-leaning, pro-worker 'socialist' models of governance (there are various arguments that neither social democracy nor the USSR attain meaningful qualifiers to be considered 'socialist').

Trumptonium wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:When libertarian socialists start advocating or carrying out the killing of entire racial groups, you'll have a valid point.

You're advocating the killing of entire ideological groups and nationalities, what is your point?

What nationalities is advocated to be slaughtered in "Nazis should not be allowed to exist", exactly?

Oil exporting People wrote:Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

Stomping them out leads to war crimes that give moral victory to their cause, and only emboldens them to fight even more fanatically
So in whose advantage is that strategy?

Claorica wrote:

Wallenburg wrote:You, regarding the question in the title. In a country where our government won't even condemn violence committed by neo-Nazis, fascism is not receiving nearly as much opposition as communism.

You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

"The car guy" has been pretty widely supported.

Crowdfunding websites have had to continually remove campaigns intended to provide financial support to his legal defence. Various alt-right figures have tweeted direct or implicit support, while others made token denouncements.
Not to mention the zillion alt-right falsehoods that Fields was actually an anti-Trump leftist; a false-flag attacker; or misidentifying him as the car's previous owner and claiming that person was an anti-Trump leftist.

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Claorica wrote:
You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

"The car guy" has been pretty widely supported.

Crowdfunding websites have had to continually remove campaigns intended to provide financial support to his legal defence. Various alt-right figures have tweeted direct or implicit support, while others made token denouncements.
Not to mention the zillion alt-right falsehoods that Fields was actually an anti-Trump leftist; a false-flag attacker; or misidentifying him as the car's previous owner and claiming that person was an anti-Trump leftist.

Or insisting that he was fleeing a violent mob that was beating his car with bats despite it being completely undamaged in the video.

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Claorica wrote:
You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

"The car guy" has been pretty widely supported.

Crowdfunding websites have had to continually remove campaigns intended to provide financial support to his legal defence. Various alt-right figures have tweeted direct or implicit support, while others made token denouncements.
Not to mention the zillion alt-right falsehoods that Fields was actually an anti-Trump leftist; a false-flag attacker; or misidentifying him as the car's previous owner and claiming that person was an anti-Trump leftist.

wow, a violent minority supports a violent person.
Is this what counts as "pretty widely supported" these days?

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Trumptonium wrote:
You're advocating the killing of entire ideological groups and nationalities, what is your point?

What nationalities is advocated to be slaughtered in "Nazis should not be allowed to exist", exactly?

Nationalities that happen to support nazism at the time of his slaughtering, I suppose.

He'd have wiped out over 20 million Germans in 1940, more than the Allies managed times five, or he could go all-out if he didn't want to do some Nazi-vetting, I guess. However that would go. How would that go for anyone, anyway?

Kavagrad wrote:

Telconi wrote:
Those Nazis weren't Americans...

Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Yeah no. Fuck you and your Antifa "we should kill nazis wherever we find them" bullshit.

It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal, Because it really is self defense when "It's ok to punch/kill nazis/fascists no matter what" and then "if you don't agree with me you are a fascist" are both said by the same leftists.

Claorica wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Yeah no. Fuck you and your Antifa "we should kill nazis wherever we find them" bullshit.

It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal, Because it really is self defense when "It's ok to punch/kill nazis/fascists no matter what" and then "if you don't agree with me you are a fascist" are both said by the same leftists.

Where does that post say anything about killing?

Vassenor wrote:

Claorica wrote:Yeah no. Fuck you and your Antifa "we should kill nazis wherever we find them" bullshit.

It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal, Because it really is self defense when "It's ok to punch/kill nazis/fascists no matter what" and then "if you don't agree with me you are a fascist" are both said by the same leftists.

Where does that post say anything about killing?

The only way you will ever stomp out every Nazi is by wiping them out. That's how the Commies did it, that's how pretty much every other far-left regime did it.

Claorica wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Where does that post say anything about killing?

The only way you will ever stomp out every Nazi is by wiping them out. That's how the Commies did it, that's how pretty much every other far-left regime did it.

I dunno, Germany managed to do it quite well without killing people.