Why isn't Socialism/Communism as frowned upon as Fascism?

[Ceannairceach]

It's just "Antifa." It's not an acronym. And of course it is: Antifa draw heavily from socialists and anarchists, and thus have similar ideas regarding self defense. For what it's worth, I don't support Antifa because their image is too tainted to save, though I am sympathetic to their cause and goals. Anyone who punches fascists and doesn't apologize for it is A-OK in my book.

meh, there law breaking scum whom hurt innocent people who first off are not even remotely fascist, and the fascists they do fight are most likley a few National Socialists(as for the tiny KKK, they are not in the same group, they are just racist's who also belief in constitutional republic)

Name a few people they've hurt who aren't fascists or allies to fascists.

[Kash Island]

meh, there law breaking scum whom hurt innocent people who first off are not even remotely fascist, and the fascists they do fight are most likley a few National Socialists(as for the tiny KKK, they are not in the same group, they are just racist's who also belief in constitutional republic)

Name a few people they've hurt who aren't fascists or allies to fascists.

see and that's how they justify it.

that Trump rally that was attacked? yeah, there just Fascist sympathizers!

when everything looks like a nail they start bringing out hammers.

[Ceannairceach]

If the limit of your argument is "but evil men can take advantage," how can you possibly support any system in which people have choices in the matter?

My argument is that communism is pretty easy to take advantage of. I am aware that is true of any system, but communism in particular has had its fair share of nasty characters. It's like the piece of shit that flies keep going to over and over again.

Also, about the Antifa thing, at what point does it stop becoming self-defense against oppressors?

Literally no more dictators than have been produced by capitalism.

When the oppressors are unable to oppress. If Antifa was targeting rich kids, or if the revolution was over and the former wealthy were still being executed in droves, such would leave the territory of self defense.

[Ceannairceach]

Name a few people they've hurt who aren't fascists or allies to fascists.

see and that's how they justify it.

that Trump rally that was attacked? yeah, there just Fascist sympathizers!

when everything looks like a nail they start bringing out hammers.

In my own defense, I consider many Trump supporters to be crypto-fascists. But you still didn't answer my question. Want to try again?

[Kash Island]

My argument is that communism is pretty easy to take advantage of. I am aware that is true of any system, but communism in particular has had its fair share of nasty characters. It's like the piece of shit that flies keep going to over and over again.

Also, about the Antifa thing, at what point does it stop becoming self-defense against oppressors?

Literally no more dictators than have been produced by capitalism.

When the oppressors are unable to oppress. If Antifa was targeting rich kids, or if the revolution was over and the former wealthy were still being executed in droves, such would leave the territory of self defense.

jesus christ

[Kash Island]

see and that's how they justify it.

that Trump rally that was attacked? yeah, there just Fascist sympathizers!

when everything looks like a nail they start bringing out hammers.

In my own defense, I consider many Trump supporters to be crypto-fascists. But you still didn't answer my question. Want to try again?

There are many instances of this

what about that poor man hit with a bike lock at a Trump rally? what about the assaults of the free speech proponents in boston where Antifa members were arressted for assault?

[Ceannairceach]

Oh, of course. Violence against people is great as long as it's for communism and to "free" people.

Nah, gonna nope out of that one.

you know what's funny, at least Fascists know what they want, Empire, Strength, Unity, Class collaboration, Roman Style Spirit.

they don't lie about there intentions.

What an absolute joke. Fascists absolutely lie about their intentions. And what lies have I told, pray tell?

[Kash Island]

you know what's funny, at least Fascists know what they want, Empire, Strength, Unity, Class collaboration, Roman Style Spirit.

they don't lie about there intentions.

What an absolute joke. Fascists absolutely lie about their intentions. And what lies have I told, pray tell?

The intentions of left-wing revolutionary's is anything but peaceful, they have to be violent to achieve there goals because it is a vain attempt to destroy human individuality.

[Ceannairceach]

In my own defense, I consider many Trump supporters to be crypto-fascists. But you still didn't answer my question. Want to try again?

There are many instances of this

what about that poor man hit with a bike lock at a Trump rally? what about the assaults of the free speech proponents in boston where Antifa members were arressted for assault?

So we've got a single person hitting one other person. Hardly representative of Antifa being a violent organization, unless you think the Trump supporter who murdered a woman is representative of all his supporters, wouldn't you agree? As for Antifa at Boston, so far as I know, they have yet to be convicted, and many were acquitted.

[Kash Island]

There are many instances of this

what about that poor man hit with a bike lock at a Trump rally? what about the assaults of the free speech proponents in boston where Antifa members were arressted for assault?

So we've got a single person hitting one other person. Hardly representative of Antifa being a violent organization, unless you think the Trump supporter who murdered a woman is representative of all his supporters, wouldn't you agree? As for Antifa at Boston, so far as I know, they have yet to be convicted, and many were acquitted.

You already consider many trump supporters crypto fascists so your already starting out from a completely biased point of view.

tell me, what "tainted" Antifa for you?

and no, the actions of one don't determine that, but Antifa constantly uses the excuse of "self-defense" and constantly goes on about "punching nazis is okay, regardless of the law"

covering your face in masks and carrying weapons dosn't help there image either.

[Ceannairceach]

What an absolute joke. Fascists absolutely lie about their intentions. And what lies have I told, pray tell?

The intentions of left-wing revolutionary's is anything but peaceful, they have to be violent to achieve there goals because it is a vain attempt to destroy human individuality.

So you don't know what you're talking about and are just spouting off, then. Great to know.

Revolutionaries don't pretend to be peaceful, nor do they pretend that violence is not a necessary part of their beliefs, so there's no lying there, merely disagreement over if that violence is justified. As for human individuality, I'm glad you can come up with such interesting buzzwords on the fly, but that is meaningless here: many revolutionary and insurrectionist groups are anarchistic or libertarian, and value human individuality moreso than you do, I imagine.

[Kash Island]

The intentions of left-wing revolutionary's is anything but peaceful, they have to be violent to achieve there goals because it is a vain attempt to destroy human individuality.

So you don't know what you're talking about and are just spouting off, then. Great to know.

Revolutionaries don't pretend to be peaceful, nor do they pretend that violence is not a necessary part of their beliefs, so there's no lying there, merely disagreement over if that violence is justified. As for human individuality, I'm glad you can come up with such interesting buzzwords on the fly, but that is meaningless here: many revolutionary and insurrectionist groups are anarchistic or libertarian, and value human individuality moreso than you do, I imagine.

Libertarians are not in the streets with bats and masks, that much is sure.

[Ceannairceach]

So we've got a single person hitting one other person. Hardly representative of Antifa being a violent organization, unless you think the Trump supporter who murdered a woman is representative of all his supporters, wouldn't you agree? As for Antifa at Boston, so far as I know, they have yet to be convicted, and many were acquitted.

You already consider many trump supporters crypto fascists so your already starting out from a completely biased point of view.

tell me, what "tainted" Antifa for you?

and no, the actions of one don't determine that, but Antifa constantly uses the excuse of "self-defense" and constantly goes on about "punching nazis is okay, regardless of the law"

covering your face in masks and carrying weapons dosn't help there image either.

The masks and weapons are exactly what I'm talking about when I say they're tainted. Antifa, being decentralized and beholden to absolutely no one but the individuals who make up the cells, has an image problem that cannot be resolved, as people see them as little more than window smashers and riot-starters. An anarchist movement needs to be about more than just violent reaction if it is going to get off the ground, and while Antifa was good as a starting point to get a message out in the wake of Trump's victory, IMO, it has lost its usefulness, and should be abandoned in favor of a fresh slate.

[Kash Island]

You already consider many trump supporters crypto fascists so your already starting out from a completely biased point of view.

tell me, what "tainted" Antifa for you?

and no, the actions of one don't determine that, but Antifa constantly uses the excuse of "self-defense" and constantly goes on about "punching nazis is okay, regardless of the law"

covering your face in masks and carrying weapons dosn't help there image either.

The masks and weapons are exactly what I'm talking about when I say they're tainted. Antifa, being decentralized and beholden to absolutely no one but the individuals who make up the cells, has an image problem that cannot be resolved, as people see them as little more than window smashers and riot-starters. An anarchist movement needs to be about more than just violent reaction if it is going to get off the ground, and while Antifa was good as a starting point to get a message out in the wake of Trump's victory, IMO, it has lost its usefulness, and should be abandoned in favor of a fresh slate.

what would that fresh slate be then?

[Ceannairceach]

So you don't know what you're talking about and are just spouting off, then. Great to know.

Revolutionaries don't pretend to be peaceful, nor do they pretend that violence is not a necessary part of their beliefs, so there's no lying there, merely disagreement over if that violence is justified. As for human individuality, I'm glad you can come up with such interesting buzzwords on the fly, but that is meaningless here: many revolutionary and insurrectionist groups are anarchistic or libertarian, and value human individuality moreso than you do, I imagine.

Libertarians are not in the streets with bats and masks, that much is sure.

Libertarian socialists absolutely are, seeing as they're another major contributor to Antifa.

[Risottia]

I already adjusted the stance and acknowledged that you are instead of a Nazi bs apologist an Italian Fascist bs apologist.
Now are you going to cry about the mistake (a easy mistake to make as not many would be caught dead defending Mussolini's incompetence) or will you actually defend a position?

an easy mistake? didn't know calling people nazi sympathizers was an "easy mistake" especially considering I already claimed to be on Italys side of the conversation.

not to mention, if you were educated on the subject, you would know Italy and Germany had very strained relations(such as the issue of Races), even during the war, where Italy eventually became German's puppet after it's military failures. Italy , before WW2, wasn't seen as all that bad by the United States.

It was a revolutionary idea for it's time, much like Marxism was during it's time, it valued national revival of spirit and strength, it was(for Italian purposes) a rebirth of Roman honor and glory. The purpose of Fascism is to reignite national strength and to discard the problems of corrupt democracy(at the time) or Marxism which was seen as a violation of the human spirit and of empire hence why it's known as "Third Position".

These days there is a lot of blending between National Socialism and Fascism, which has created "neo-fascism" or "neo-nazism"

Meno cazzate, per favore.
The fascists were atthe beginning a tool of the agrarian and industrial owners against the socialist uprisings. Then they went on to be the tools of a king who betrayed his predecessors and their word by forfeiting the Statute. Then they turned traitors themselves and sold the country to the Germans.

Honour has never been an interest of the fascists.

[Uxupox]

You already consider many trump supporters crypto fascists so your already starting out from a completely biased point of view.

tell me, what "tainted" Antifa for you?

and no, the actions of one don't determine that, but Antifa constantly uses the excuse of "self-defense" and constantly goes on about "punching nazis is okay, regardless of the law"

covering your face in masks and carrying weapons dosn't help there image either.

The masks and weapons are exactly what I'm talking about when I say they're tainted. Antifa, being decentralized and beholden to absolutely no one but the individuals who make up the cells, has an image problem that cannot be resolved, as people see them as little more than window smashers and riot-starters. An anarchist movement needs to be about more than just violent reaction if it is going to get off the ground, and while Antifa was good as a starting point to get a message out in the wake of Trump's victory, IMO, it has lost its usefulness, and should be abandoned in favor of a fresh slate.

It was only useful for destroying property and innocent trash cans that's really it.

[Kash Island]

Libertarians are not in the streets with bats and masks, that much is sure.

Libertarian socialists absolutely are, seeing as they're another major contributor to Antifa.

Libertarian Socialism...a minority of a minority...they absolutley do not make up the bulk of Antifa and they are not in anyway related to groups that support ideas like those of the Libertarian Party.

[Ceannairceach]

The masks and weapons are exactly what I'm talking about when I say they're tainted. Antifa, being decentralized and beholden to absolutely no one but the individuals who make up the cells, has an image problem that cannot be resolved, as people see them as little more than window smashers and riot-starters. An anarchist movement needs to be about more than just violent reaction if it is going to get off the ground, and while Antifa was good as a starting point to get a message out in the wake of Trump's victory, IMO, it has lost its usefulness, and should be abandoned in favor of a fresh slate.

what would that fresh slate be then?

Ditch the Antifa imagery. Hell, I agree with ContraPoints (leftie YouTuber) that the left needs a facelift in general: throw out the hammer and sickle, the stars, the red and black and start anew. I think their organization strategy - diverse and interconnected but independent cells beholden only to themselves - is a good one, but one that needs further refinement before it can be the face of the American hard left. Antifa has a different look in Europe, for example, where it is more established, and not immediately hated because people value their contributions to the anti-fascist movement. They also participate in mass gatherings against things like the G7 and G20 events, which IMO can be harmful if not severely well organized and prepared for.

[Kash Island]

what would that fresh slate be then?

Ditch the Antifa imagery. Hell, I agree with ContraPoints (leftie YouTuber) that the left needs a facelift in general: throw out the hammer and sickle, the stars, the red and black and start anew. I think their organization strategy - diverse and interconnected but independent cells beholden only to themselves - is a good one, but one that needs further refinement before it can be the face of the American hard left. Antifa has a different look in Europe, for example, where it is more established, and not immediately hated because people value their contributions to the anti-fascist movement. They also participate in mass gatherings against things like the G7 and G20 events, which IMO can be harmful if not severely well organized and prepared for.

so your a hardcore leftist who wants an image change.

[Kavagrad]

Libertarian socialists absolutely are, seeing as they're another major contributor to Antifa.

Libertarian Socialism...a minority of a minority...they absolutley do not make up the bulk of Antifa and they are not in anyway related to groups that support ideas like those of the Libertarian Party.

The Libertarian Party is not even close to representing all libertarians. It's essentially a group of economically far-right anarchists in suits.

[Claorica]

what would that fresh slate be then?

Ditch the Antifa imagery. Hell, I agree with ContraPoints (leftie YouTuber) that the left needs a facelift in general: throw out the hammer and sickle, the stars, the red and black and start anew. I think their organization strategy - diverse and interconnected but independent cells beholden only to themselves - is a good one, but one that needs further refinement before it can be the face of the American hard left. Antifa has a different look in Europe, for example, where it is more established, and not immediately hated because people value their contributions to the anti-fascist movement. They also participate in mass gatherings against things like the G7 and G20 events, which IMO can be harmful if not severely well organized and prepared for.

Because in Europe they actually started out as actually fighting fascism instead of applying the term fascism to anyone who is right of Sanders.

[Ceannairceach]

Libertarian socialists absolutely are, seeing as they're another major contributor to Antifa.

Libertarian Socialism...a minority of a minority...they absolutley do not make up the bulk of Antifa and they are not in anyway related to groups that support ideas like those of the Libertarian Party.

Libertarian socialists are the majority, actually, so far as "people who identify as libertarian (x)" goes. Another mark against you knowing what you're talking about. Libertarianism predates the American Libertarian Party by at least a century.

[Ceannairceach]

Ditch the Antifa imagery. Hell, I agree with ContraPoints (leftie YouTuber) that the left needs a facelift in general: throw out the hammer and sickle, the stars, the red and black and start anew. I think their organization strategy - diverse and interconnected but independent cells beholden only to themselves - is a good one, but one that needs further refinement before it can be the face of the American hard left. Antifa has a different look in Europe, for example, where it is more established, and not immediately hated because people value their contributions to the anti-fascist movement. They also participate in mass gatherings against things like the G7 and G20 events, which IMO can be harmful if not severely well organized and prepared for.

so your a hardcore leftist who wants an image change.

Is that not abundantly clear?

[Claorica]

Libertarian Socialism...a minority of a minority...they absolutley do not make up the bulk of Antifa and they are not in anyway related to groups that support ideas like those of the Libertarian Party.

Libertarian socialists are the majority, actually, so far as "people who identify as libertarian (x)" goes. Another mark against you knowing what you're talking about. Libertarianism predates the American Libertarian Party by at least a century.

Modern Libertarianism has nothing to do with 19th Century Libertarianism (which was socialism). In fact, back then what we call Libertarianism would instead be called Liberalism, and today is still called Classical Liberalism. Because people who ascribe to the ideals of the LP, for the most part (there are some lefties and some crazies) ascribe to the ideals of the Liberalism that Jefferson, Paine, and Henry would espouse.