Why isn't Socialism/Communism as frowned upon as Fascism?

[Manokan Republic]

It seems like he's saying that normal jews are awesome and that their mistreatment will lead to problems. That they're being stripped of their jewish faith and having it replaced, which is the problem at hand.


My problem is that you are unintentionally blending the two. Based on modern definitions, it is not the case; but if we're going by modern definitions, than Churchill was not right-wing, and neither were the KKK which were Democrats. Take a definition and stick to it, rather than blending them together when they shouldn't be.

The problem is that you conflate rightwing with capitalism, historical conservatism was opposed to the advent of capitalism and actively worked to suppress it. Metternich is a good example of that.

No I'm not, I'm sticking to the same definition, which is the modern definition. The problem is that you guys are unintentionally conflating the two while thinking you are not.

[Oil exporting People]

The Night of the Long Knives was a purge of the working-class elements of the SA, so that pretty much was a service to the German business elite, yes.

The post-July 20th purges were carried out after... well, after July 20th 1944, in the last year of the regime, as everything was falling apart, and as a result of the growing paranoia after the failed assassination attempt against Hitler.

The S.A. and part of the Strasser duo were taken out, along with a large amount of Pre-War conservatives and such; Kurt von Schleicher being the first to leap to mind. On the whole though, the point still stands that one should not confuse Hitler's use of National Capitalism as being beholden to their interests or some such; that's fallacy.

[Aillyria]

The problem is that you conflate rightwing with capitalism, historical conservatism was opposed to the advent of capitalism and actively worked to suppress it. Metternich is a good example of that.

No I'm not, I'm sticking to the same definition, which is the modern definition. The problem is that you guys are unintentionally conflating the two while thinking you are not.

I'm not conflating anything, actually. Capitalists can be socially either right of left, so can socialists.

[Wallenburg]

Everyone knows that statement is hollow and means nothing, given the president's initial comments on the terror attack.

He condemned both sides, both of which were violent. Even CNN, a left-leaning liberal news outlet, admitted this as their journalists were attacked by left wing activists at the event. How does condemning both sides mean that you support one of the sides? I'm honestly curious how you can seriously think such a thing.

If I say "Both communists and fascists are bad!", do you believe I must be pro fascist? How does that work exactly?

I already told you, his initial statements betray his true beliefs. He does not honestly condemn the fascist terrorists.

He was more than happy to condemn the people the fascists murdered, so...

It was a single guy and a single death, so it was one person, not people, and he wasn't condemning the person who was murdered, he was condemning the other violent left-wing individuals at the event, of which there were many. You'd be ridiculous to conflate the two.

You are right. he was more than happy to condemn the people the fascists attacked, and one of them that one of the fascists murdered.

1) Trump Jr. isn't Jewish.
2) Some of my best friends are black!

Jared Kushner is jewish, his son in law?

Jared Kushner is not Trump's son. That should be blindingly obvious.

Also, why would he advocate for the eradication of jews if his children are jewish? That makes no sense, on top of his support for Israel.

I didn't say he advocates for the eradication of Jews. Argue with me, not your strawman.

Pro-Israel =/= pro-Jewish. And it certainly doesn't equal anti-fascism.

*Considering* that Israel is a predomiantely jewish country and that Nazis hate the country, it wouldn't make sense for him to like and encourage the biggest jewish country in the world, but somehow hate jews.

Pro-Israel =/= pro-Jewish.

It very specifically means he's not a fascist. Or go ahead and fine me a single pro-Israel Nazi out there.

I didn't claim there are pro-Israel Nazis. Argue with me, not your strawman.

Trump doesn't display other fascists tenancies etheir, being for gun rights, freedom of speech, and lowering taxes.

Well, Nazi Germany loosened gun regulations for those who they considered "ordinary" Germans, Trump has repeatedly sued people for saying things he doesn't like and has called free press the enemy of the people, and Trump's administration plans to raise taxes on the majority of Americans, while the Nazi regime had very low taxes, choosing to collect funds instead through the repeated plunder of Jewish households and families. That's 0 for 3, I'm afraid.

Last time I checked, fascists don't give the population guns so they can fight the government,

The US government is giving away guns? Damn, I need to get on that right now!

allow them to say whatever is on their mind that is anti government,

LOL.

and reduce their own power over the people.

Absolutely. That is, if you consider warrentless search and seizure, prosecution of the use of recreational drugs, de facto abortion bans, and so on to be "reducing power over the people".

He's more of an Anarchist, a libertarian, which is literally the opposite of Authoritarian governments like fascism.

There is no way that you can be serious. Anarchists don't try to ban people with skin two shades too dark from entering the country.

I didn't call Trump a Nazi. Read my post next time.

I did read your post, you merely insinuated it.

Argue with me, not your strawman.

[Constantinopolis]

Stop quoting from wikipedia. On some topics wikipedia is a useful source. This is not one of those topics. Practically every article related to Nazi Germany is a battleground between people with various ideologies to push that are all trying to prove the Nazis were the precise opposite of whatever ideology they support. The result is a ton of selective and deceptive quoting from sources that often say the opposite of what the article makes them appear to say.

If you want to learn about the Nazi economy, here's a good book.

"Adam Tooze's controversial new book challenges the conventional economic interpretations of that period to explore how Hitler's surprisingly prescient vision- ultimately hindered by Germany's limited resources and his own racial ideology-was to create a German super-state to dominate Europe and compete with what he saw as America's overwhelming power in a soon-to- be globalized world."- He goes against the grain of conventional historians, which is exactly my point. This is self-admitted revisionist history by a small number of select people, with virtually everyone else disagreeing on the methods you're describing.

*facepalm*

Yes, Tooze challenges some conventional interpretations, but not on the issues we were talking about. He challenges conventional interpretations in that, basically, he argues that the Nazis had a well-constructed plan to create a German super-state in Europe - like the review you quoted says - as opposed to the conventional interpretation, which holds that the Nazis were making things up as they went along and had only vague dreams of conquest and colonization as opposed to any carefully-designed vision. Tooze essentially argues that the Nazis were better organized and had more internal consistency than they are usually given credit for.

None of that is relevant to what we were talking about.

If you had actually scrolled down to the endorsements, you would have noticed that Tooze's work is praised by none other than Niall Ferguson, one of the leading conservative historians of our time.

But I only picked Tooze's book to recommend to you because it's one of the rare few scholarly works that focus specifically on the Nazi economy, instead of looking at the broader picture of the Nazi society and government (with the economy being only part of the story). If you want the most conventional work there is, have at it: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Or pick any major work on Nazi Germany by an established historian, and you will see that it confirms what I told you: The Nazi economy, while certainly not free-market by any stretch of the imagination, was basically just an ultra-militarized and racialized version of the type of economy that had always been advocated by German conservatives and right-wingers, going all the way back to Otto von Bismarck. The idea was to have a close relationship between state and business, for mutual benefit and for national glory.

Also the nazi party awarded anyone who would help their cause, because they were corrupt.

No, that wasn't corruption, that was part of standard German right-wing ideology going back to the 19th century. It's what Otto von Bismarck, the founding father of German conservatism, did. The idea was that state and business should work together for the advancement of the power and prestige of the German nation.

Remember, Germany did not exist as a single country before 1871. Germany was created in the 19th century by a militaristic kingdom (Prussia) gradually conquering its neighbors. German conservatives - i.e. those people who supported this gradual conquest and the formation of a united German state - feared anything that might cause division and encourage Germany to fragment into several countries again. So they were generally against market competition. The liberals were those who were pro-free-market, and conservatives often viewed them as potential traitors seeking to undermine the unity of the German state. Meanwhile the socialists, of course, advocated working class revolution, and the conservatives viewed them as definitely traitors - Jewish traitors, to be precise - who were definitely trying to undermine the unity of the German state. Bismarck passed a number of censorship laws intended to have socialism banned, hoping to destroy the SDP (the main socialist party in Germany at the time). He failed.

And by the way, it was the same Otto von Bismarck who created the first social security system in the world, and the first version of publicly-funded health insurance. These were explicitly intended to reduce the popularity of socialism and to combat the idea of working-class revolution, by improving the living standards of the working class. So the modern welfare state explicitly began as an anti-socialist measure. The welfare state was originally a conservative idea to make full-blown socialism less popular.

And it has been a German conservative tradition to support the welfare state on that basis, ever since. The present-day German conservatives - the CDU (Christian Democratic Union) party of Angela Merkel - support an idea they call the "social market economy". in keeping with this tradition. In Germany, it is the liberals (currently organized as the FDP - the Free Democratic Party) who support free markets. They are usually the third-largest force in German politics, behind the conservatives and the social democrats.

You need to know German history and the German political spectrum if you want to understand the Nazis.

But socialists also award capitalists business that help their cause.

...???

Our cause is the overthrow of capitalism and the abolition of private property over the means of production. The only way capitalists could help our cause would be by voluntarily giving up ownership of their businesses and handing them over to the workers. So far, none of them have ever done that. Go figure.

I'm starting to think that you really don't know what socialists want.

[Constantinopolis]

These conservatives weren't:

(Image)

Neither are these conservatives:

(Image)

Again, your problem is that you think that "right-wing" and "conservatism" mean "the politics of the 21st century Republican Party in the United States".

My problem is that you are unintentionally blending the two. Based on modern definitions, it is not the case; but if we're going by modern definitions, than Churchill was not right-wing, and neither were the KKK which were Democrats. Take a definition and stick to it, rather than blending them together when they shouldn't be.

You're not just using the modern definition, you're using specifically the modern American definition. And trying to apply it to a political party that was neither modern nor American - it was a German political party founded almost 100 years ago and which ceased to exist over 70 years ago.

To put things into perspective: At this point, the country of Germany has existed for a longer period of time after the Nazis (1945-2018) than it existed before the Nazis (1871-1933). Yeah. The Nazis are old. We're not used to thinking them as being so far back in history because everyone talks about them all the time. But they are very far removed from the present-day political context.

And that is even more true if you're talking about the present-day American political context, in which "conservatism" or "right-wing" means this:

When conservatives are for free markets, freedom of speech, are for gun rights and so on, you don't get the problems of socialist governments which take away guns and freedom of speech and so on.

This is not what "conservatism" or "right-wing" means in Germany today, let alone in Germany 70-100 years ago.

The German right-wing was never in favour of free markets. German conservatives going back to Otto von Bismarck (and actually earlier, too, before Germany was formed) have always been in favour of a partnership between the state and business leaders, and a limited paternalistic welfare state to keep the workers content and take away the appeal of full socialism.

The German right-wing was never in favour of (full) freedom of speech. Bismarck passed the anti-socialist censorship laws that I talked about in my previous post, then the Nazis... - well you know what they did - and the present-day German conservatives fully support the "Office for the Protection of the Constitution" whose explicit task is to spy on, disrupt, and if necessarily arrest, members of political groups that are deemed to go against Germany's current political order.

(yes, present-day democratic Germany has an internal political police; if you didn't know that before, you do now)

And finally, outside of the United States, "gun rights" are rarely supported by anyone at all - let alone the conservative right, which was traditionally always afraid of revolution and definitely did not want the workers to be armed.

To give you an idea of just how alone and weird the United States is when it comes to "gun rights": Americans hold between 35% and 50% of all the civilian-owned guns in the world. American society is unbelievably heavily-armed by normal standards.

[Mutz]

[...]
And by the way, it was the same Otto von Bismarck who created the first social security system in the world, and the first version of publicly-funded health insurance. These were explicitly intended to reduce the popularity of socialism and to combat the idea of working-class revolution, by improving the living standards of the working class. So the modern welfare state explicitly began as an anti-socialist measure. The welfare state was originally a conservative idea to make full-blown socialism less popular.

And it has been a German conservative tradition to support the welfare state on that basis, ever since. The present-day German conservatives - the CDU (Christian Democratic Union) party of Angela Merkel - support an idea they call the "social market economy". in keeping with this tradition. In Germany, it is the liberals (currently organized as the FDP - the Free Democratic Party) who support free markets. They are usually the third-largest force in German politics, behind the conservatives and the social democrats..[...]

Well, there's quite a number of modern German conservatives, which would love to tear down the social safety net even further. But your main point certainly still stands!

Anyway, there's really no debate in historical circles that the "S" in NSDAP was anything but half-hearted propaganda. I've certainly never stumbled upon it, at least.
Pretty much only Röhm could be argued to have had some socialist tendencies, but only in order to benefit a very narrowly defined Volksgemeinschaft, which was antithetical to mainstream socialist thought, which was internationalist and universal in it's nature. It was never a big influence on the main Nazi ideology and fell completely by the wayside after his murder.¨

What hasn't been mentioned so far, IIRC, is the fact that the Nazis forbade all unions shortly after they gained power, the widespread use of slave labour and that the victims of the first phase of the concentration camps were socialists and communists. Which only made sense, since they were the declared main political enemy of the Nazis and were seen as a part of their imagined global jewish conspiracy.
It's true that they also talked about a capitalist arm of this conspiracy, but that was confined to the realm of finance and most often served only to cast German industrialists as poor victims of sinister jewish manipulators. Which is in no way a socialist argumentation.

How one get's from all that Nazis=Socialist, I have no idea.

[The Parkus Empire]

Um. I actually read the snippet of that article and it doesn't seem anti-semitic at all?

"Some people like the jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world. "The lord deals with the nations as the nations deal with the jews." Certainly when we look at the miserable state of Russia, where of all countries in the world the jews were the most cruelly teated, and contrast it with the fortunes of our own country, which seems to have been so providentially preserved amid the awful perils of these times, we must admit that nothing has since happened in the history of the world has falsified the truth of Disraeli's confident assertion". Basically this is Churchill saying that mistreatment of jews will cause God to destroy the country if you aren't careful.

"We owe to the jews in the Christian revelation a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all other wisdom and learning put together."- This seems like a man who is pleading to get people to like the jews, not hate them.

I wasn't saying he hated Jews, I was saying he believed that communism was a Jewish conspiracy. From the same article:

"In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish efforts rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemburg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide revolutionary conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing."

When conservatives are for free markets, freedom of speech, are for gun rights and so on,

These conservatives weren't:



Neither are these conservatives:



Again, your problem is that you think that "right-wing" and "conservatism" mean "the politics of the 21st century Republican Party in the United States".

Louis XVI was not conservative except in the most anachronistic sense. If you're looking for hardline continental conservatism, Franco and Dollfuss are sounder examples.

[Catalonya]

There are many nazis who support zionism. They want jews out of all countries and into Israel, where angry muslims can nuke them
It's all part of a eugenics plan, this is a rumor i heard, that antisemites invented israel to kick jewish followers out of their christian territories
There are many conservative jews who support this and want a nation for their own religion, and don't consider it nazi or care that it's supported by right-wing extremists.
The original kingdom of Jerusalem was christian crusader who needed the trade routes there safely out of muslim hands. Because Saracens were very wealthy, and wanted to drive europe's richest out of business. It was all commercial and reasonable, but not so much now.
We can trade with anyone now, regardless of religious delusions. Arabs are no longer in the dark ages where they relied on trade to survive in harsh desert conditions, and had to become raiders and pirates to make a living.

We can all prosper in peace, and have a healthy economic competitiveness in modern tolerant days. Without having to kill each other. Most wars of the religious past were started for trade & it's resources. This is what land brought, resources and opportunities for foreign trade and survival. In the modern century, we no longer have those poor living conditions of near-death, except within our own countries.

Instead of religious fight for existence there is a class warfare for existence.

Fascism is dead because religion is almost dead. The Ottoman empire was kinda fascist, and very antisemitic but now they are almost communist in some social blankets and very capitalist and liberal in others. Conservatism is a cultural survival reflex, that hopefully will blossom into liberal capitalism instead of degenerate into theocracy and nationalistic slavery.

Profit like never before, from trade and production revolutions, is pacifying people and drawing them away from fascistic religions and rigid nationalism. They can be patriots who love being citizens of a place, for the benefits, and culture and social heritage of rights and freedoms, but nationalism is at times just a front for fanatic theocracy. Worship of a deity or saint who founded their mythical kingdom country is primitive and a bit childish. The worst kind of tribal

Conservatism is fine in private views or public policies when it doesn't damage individual freedom, rights of the population, force religion or faith down people's throats, dictate values that are too unpopular to survive unless imposed.

At this point extreme liberalism that is cancerous and socially corruptive of individuals is the only thing keeping conservatism reflex alive. White cells need cancer to stimulate erratic growth in response to the source of fear.

Almost as if liberalism is a scarecrow invented by far right totalitarians to scare the crowds into submission for fear of the radical change that disobeying their government appears to promise. Serve the state, kiss the cross and crescent or demons will turn your son gay and embarass you in front of the public. Pay your taxes, sometimes vote, to legitimize our carrot-stick system of mass control.

Democracy should not be this cheap charade out of a lion-tamer's fantasy

My country, the EU, supports Palestine not because we don't recognize Israel. But because we built humanitarian aid shelter for poor palestinian families whose homes were destroyed by the Israeli (some say fascist regime in power at a time) state, who relocated natives by force in an apartheid fashion. Penelope Cruz, a major Hollywood actress drew attention to this crisis, that a state is subjecting the natives of a foreign state to. And we sanction Israel because they demolish those humanitarian shelters bought for and built by our euros. Built for needy palestinians whose habitation was destroyed for neoimperialistic non-corporate greed.

Muslims sometimes say jews dont belong in Israel because they are white europeans. There are perhaps more white europeans in muslim lands who are born in muslim communities than in all of jewish communities. So muslims belong there even if they have more european blood. Those people forget that islam is not a race, and whites deserve to have their own native countries there, even if the majority dominant religion at the time happens to be islam. For all we know, islam was created by white europeans, for what eventually included other converted peoples.

But religion is no longer necessary for tribal dominance of trade for survival of isolated communities in harsh unwelcoming environments. This is why with religion dying out, muslims seeing Allah doesn't exist because Ottoman Empire lost WW1 and crumbled to western capitalist atheist nationalist republicanism and conversion to european style alphabet and cultural modernization.
Christianity saw God brings only death in both world wars upon their fanatic heads, killing their children in a horrible blood bath that puts the Black Plague to shame, and all of history's wars to the toy department in form of casualties.

Communism and socialism was a natural stepping stone of people and tribes waking up from the fascist delusion of conservative theocracy, to the modern materialistic age of industry, profit and new war-peace dynamic of the shifting paradigm of power vs. religion vs. individuals.

Communism was defeated as it's fascist foe it defeated, to fall in it's turn to personal profit values like Individualism and healthy selfishness culture. People began seeing they matter more than an unknown rambling dictator on some speaker form behind a desk, and the new era of anti-establishmentarianism is brought to light. That sees Individualism triumph over Authoritarian WW2 generation of political structures with outdated ideologies that stopped fooling the increasingly more educated masses that begin thinking and judging for themselves or at least with each other as groups, instead of obeying or blindly believing the faith-like regime. Despite the massive dumbing down cultural policies the old regimes try constantly to inject the younger generations with.

The TV is a prime example of fascists trying to maintain control through conservatism. When that failed, it was time to dumb them down with radical liberalism, to scare them into submitting to the leading structures. That fascist dying culture that used to be mainstream is falling as hard as it's communist scapegoat and the liberal scarecrow. To the new age of anti-political Populism.

Look at two major western countries. France and the US. Massive support in electing anti-establishment apolitical candidates, because fascism and it's helping shadow of socialism-communism are vanishing like a nightmare fades when waking up from it.
All ideologies are frowned upon by the new voting trends. Soon, NationStates will be a thing of the past or seen as a cultural relic of the funny times when people worshiped the false gods of politheist politics.

Democracy is paving the way for Messianic Movements. Only one individual is allowed by laws to lead and save the people from a failing corrupt system around them. The New Monarch is anointed by the modern citizen to punish the treasonous functionary, and avenge the disenfranchised majority that rightfully feels exploited.

Even if Axis or Soviets survived to this day, they would still have died like this Allied winning regime from entropy of it's popularity
Ideology is dying, whether it veils it's theocracy behind pseudomodern nationalism or republicanism or science, or even liberalism.
Politics is a ghost of the hellenic past
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCxgqHqakXc

Populism is the New Rome. It is marching trimphantly to crush the values and gods of the old millenium with the apathy to politics and desire for radical mass change that is the lowest common denominator.
No matter how much tolerance or acceptance the pandering fascist regime will dunk it's democratic-apparent image in, the masses know the corrupt officials were never on their side, they are just duping them as ever.

The vote is the most powerful weapon of the modern age. Not the weapon, or even nuclear weaponry. Even those are slaves to whoever the people choose as their savior next. the people indirectly have the nuclear option, let that sink in for awhile...

[Claorica]

There are many nazis who support zionism. They want jews out of all countries and into Israel, where angry muslims can nuke them
It's all part of a eugenics plan, this is a rumor i heard, that antisemites invented israel to kick jewish followers out of their christian territories
There are many conservative jews who support this and want a nation for their own religion, and don't consider it nazi or care that it's supported by right-wing extremists.
The original kingdom of Jerusalem was christian crusader who needed the trade routes there safely out of muslim hands. Because Saracens were very wealthy, and wanted to drive europe's richest out of business. It was all commercial and reasonable, but not so much now.
We can trade with anyone now, regardless of religious delusions. Arabs are no longer in the dark ages where they relied on trade to survive in harsh desert conditions, and had to become raiders and pirates to make a living.

We can all prosper in peace, and have a healthy economic competitiveness in modern tolerant days. Without having to kill each other. Most wars of the religious past were started for trade & it's resources. This is what land brought, resources and opportunities for foreign trade and survival. In the modern century, we no longer have those poor living conditions of near-death, except within our own countries.

Instead of religious fight for existence there is a class warfare for existence.

Fascism is dead because religion is almost dead. The Ottoman empire was kinda fascist, and very antisemitic but now they are almost communist in some social blankets and very capitalist and liberal in others. Conservatism is a cultural survival reflex, that hopefully will blossom into liberal capitalism instead of degenerate into theocracy and nationalistic slavery.

Profit like never before, from trade and production revolutions, is pacifying people and drawing them away from fascistic religions and rigid nationalism. They can be patriots who love being citizens of a place, for the benefits, and culture and social heritage of rights and freedoms, but nationalism is at times just a front for fanatic theocracy. Worship of a deity or saint who founded their mythical kingdom country is primitive and a bit childish. The worst kind of tribal

Conservatism is fine in private views or public policies when it doesn't damage individual freedom, rights of the population, force religion or faith down people's throats, dictate values that are too unpopular to survive unless imposed.

At this point extreme liberalism that is cancerous and socially corruptive of individuals is the only thing keeping conservatism reflex alive. White cells need cancer to stimulate erratic growth in response to the source of fear.

Almost as if liberalism is a scarecrow invented by far right totalitarians to scare the crowds into submission for fear of the radical change that disobeying their government appears to promise. Serve the state, kiss the cross and crescent or demons will turn your son gay and embarass you in front of the public. Pay your taxes, sometimes vote, to legitimize our carrot-stick system of mass control.

Democracy should not be this cheap charade out of a lion-tamer's fantasy

My country, the EU, supports Palestine not because we don't recognize Israel. But because we built humanitarian aid shelter for poor palestinian families whose homes were destroyed by the Israeli (some say fascist regime in power at a time) state, who relocated natives by force in an apartheid fashion. Penelope Cruz, a major Hollywood actress drew attention to this crisis, that a state is subjecting the natives of a foreign state to. And we sanction Israel because they demolish those humanitarian shelters bought for and built by our euros. Built for needy palestinians whose habitation was destroyed for neoimperialistic non-corporate greed.

Muslims sometimes say jews dont belong in Israel because they are white europeans. There are perhaps more white europeans in muslim lands who are born in muslim communities than in all of jewish communities. So muslims belong there even if they have more european blood. Those people forget that islam is not a race, and whites deserve to have their own native countries there, even if the majority dominant religion at the time happens to be islam. For all we know, islam was created by white europeans, for what eventually included other converted peoples.

But religion is no longer necessary for tribal dominance of trade for survival of isolated communities in harsh unwelcoming environments. This is why with religion dying out, muslims seeing Allah doesn't exist because Ottoman Empire lost WW1 and crumbled to western capitalist atheist nationalist republicanism and conversion to european style alphabet and cultural modernization.
Christianity saw God brings only death in both world wars upon their fanatic heads, killing their children in a horrible blood bath that puts the Black Plague to shame, and all of history's wars to the toy department in form of casualties.

Communism and socialism was a natural stepping stone of people and tribes waking up from the fascist delusion of conservative theocracy, to the modern materialistic age of industry, profit and new war-peace dynamic of the shifting paradigm of power vs. religion vs. individuals.

Communism was defeated as it's fascist foe it defeated, to fall in it's turn to personal profit values like Individualism and healthy selfishness culture. People began seeing they matter more than an unknown rambling dictator on some speaker form behind a desk, and the new era of anti-establishmentarianism is brought to light. That sees Individualism triumph over Authoritarian WW2 generation of political structures with outdated ideologies that stopped fooling the increasingly more educated masses that begin thinking and judging for themselves or at least with each other as groups, instead of obeying or blindly believing the faith-like regime. Despite the massive dumbing down cultural policies the old regimes try constantly to inject the younger generations with.

The TV is a prime example of fascists trying to maintain control through conservatism. When that failed, it was time to dumb them down with radical liberalism, to scare them into submitting to the leading structures. That fascist dying culture that used to be mainstream is falling as hard as it's communist scapegoat and the liberal scarecrow. To the new age of anti-political Populism.

Look at two major western countries. France and the US. Massive support in electing anti-establishment apolitical candidates, because fascism and it's helping shadow of socialism-communism are vanishing like a nightmare fades when waking up from it.
All ideologies are frowned upon by the new voting trends. Soon, NationStates will be a thing of the past or seen as a cultural relic of the funny times when people worshiped the false gods of politheist politics.

Democracy is paving the way for Messianic Movements. Only one individual is allowed by laws to lead and save the people from a failing corrupt system around them. The New Monarch is anointed by the modern citizen to punish the treasonous functionary, and avenge the disenfranchised majority that rightfully feels exploited.

Even if Axis or Soviets survived to this day, they would still have died like this Allied winning regime from entropy of it's popularity
Ideology is dying, whether it veils it's theocracy behind pseudomodern nationalism or republicanism or science, or even liberalism.
Politics is a ghost of the hellenic past
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCxgqHqakXc

Populism is the New Rome. It is marching trimphantly to crush the values and gods of the old millenium with the apathy to politics and desire for radical mass change that is the lowest common denominator.
No matter how much tolerance or acceptance the pandering fascist regime will dunk it's democratic-apparent image in, the masses know the corrupt officials were never on their side, they are just duping them as ever.

The vote is the most powerful weapon of the modern age. Not the weapon, or even nuclear weaponry. Even those are slaves to whoever the people choose as their savior next. the people indirectly have the nuclear option, let that sink in for awhile...

All the more reason for a Monarchy with the leader chosen from among a group of high-ranking nobles like in the HRE where an electoral college unbeholden to the vote of the mob exists to stop the demagogues and the radicals from ever reaching power. We can bring back the religion of the good old Germanic Monarchies, where the kings were expected to be moral and good Kings, like Christian IV of Denmark, the Hapsburgs, le bon roi Henri, Claudius and Trajan, Nerva and Hadrian, Antoninus and Aurelius.

[Kubumba Tribe]

The Ottoman empire was kinda fascis

How?

and very antisemitic

How?

Profit like never before, from trade and production revolutions, is pacifying people

That depends

My country, the EU, supports Palestine not because we don't recognize Israel. But because we built humanitarian aid shelter for poor palestinian families whose homes were destroyed by the Israeli (some say fascist regime in power at a time) state, who relocated natives by force in an apartheid fashion. Penelope Cruz, a major Hollywood actress drew attention to this crisis, that a state is subjecting the natives of a foreign state to. And we sanction Israel because they demolish those humanitarian shelters bought for and built by our euros. Built for needy palestinians whose habitation was destroyed for neoimperialistic non-corporate greed.

The Zionist state has no right to exist at all.

For all we know, islam was created by white europeans

Which is false

But religion is no longer necessary for tribal dominance of trade for survival of isolated communities in harsh unwelcoming environments.

It almost never was

muslims seeing Allah doesn't exist

False. Al-Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

Communism was defeated as it's fascist foe it defeated, to fall in it's turn to personal profit values like Individualism and healthy selfishness culture. People began seeing they matter more than an unknown rambling dictator on some speaker form behind a desk, and the new era of anti-establishmentarianism is brought to light. That sees Individualism triumph over Authoritarian WW2 generation of political structures with outdated ideologies that stopped fooling the increasingly more educated masses that begin thinking and judging for themselves or at least with each other as groups, instead of obeying or blindly believing the faith-like regime. Despite the massive dumbing down cultural policies the old regimes try constantly to inject the younger generations with.

No, many people would still blindly follow whoever they like

The TV is a prime example of fascists trying to maintain control through conservatism. When that failed, it was time to dumb them down with radical liberalism, to scare them into submitting to the leading structures. That fascist dying culture that used to be mainstream is falling as hard as it's communist scapegoat and the liberal scarecrow. To the new age of anti-political Populism.

Look at two major western countries. France and the US. Massive support in electing anti-establishment apolitical candidates, because fascism and it's helping shadow of socialism-communism are vanishing like a nightmare fades when waking up from it.
All ideologies are frowned upon by the new voting trends. Soon, NationStates will be a thing of the past or seen as a cultural relic of the funny times when people worshiped the false gods of politheist politics.

What are you talking about here?

Democracy is paving the way for Messianic Movements. Only one individual is allowed by laws to lead and save the people from a failing corrupt system around them. The New Monarch is anointed by the modern citizen to punish the treasonous functionary, and avenge the disenfranchised majority that rightfully feels exploited.

Again, what are you talking about?

Politics is a ghost of the hellenic past

No it's not, politics is still very alive today

Populism is the New Rome. It is marching trimphantly to crush the values and gods of the old millenium with the apathy to politics and desire for radical mass change that is the lowest common denominator.
No matter how much tolerance or acceptance the pandering fascist regime will dunk it's democratic-apparent image in, the masses know the corrupt officials were never on their side, they are just duping them as ever.

Again, what are you talking about?

The vote is the most powerful weapon of the modern age. Not the weapon, or even nuclear weaponry. Even those are slaves to whoever the people choose as their savior next. the people indirectly have the nuclear option, let that sink in for awhile...

Pretty sure weapons are still the most powerful

[Catalonya]

Monarchy is an easy ideal to seek shelter in for the nostalgic themed lifestyle.

Reality check: it will always be re-replaced by modern revolutionary through bloody cruel violence and chaos, to reach a lower center of chaos-gravity.

This is not to say i am discouraging your opinions or turning them down. I welcome this completion as it is an honest call to values dignity and culture.

However, the Neo-Messianic Savior culture that Democracy enables is not evil by default. What you call mob rule, is the most raw honest pure form of Individualism and personal freedoms. It is the most beautiful form of mass heresy.

We do not need an old-school dynasty that claims to be the Savior simply because they descend from some deity or were anointed by The Church

Populism is pure, it is chaotic and difficult to predict. The Savior-Monarch needs to earn their popularity, by gaining that support organically from their supporters. It's the most honest form of leadership. Cossacks chose their Hetman each year, and they were the most elite order of knights in all of Europe's traditional cavalries.

Though anyone may agree with your viewpoint, i personally admire "mob rule" as you put it ever so delectably
It's vibrant, it's colorful.. it's culturally enriching

[Kubumba Tribe]

Arabs are no longer in the dark ages where they relied on trade to survive in harsh desert conditions, and had to become raiders and pirates to make a living.

You should read up on Islamic history.
Arabs haven't been in the Dark Ages for a long time, they started a golden age before Europeans, who got help from the Arab and North African Muslims to get out of the Dark Ages.

[Claorica]

Monarchy is an easy ideal to seek shelter in for the nostalgic themed lifestyle.

Reality check: it will always be re-replaced by modern revolutionary through bloody cruel violence and chaos, to reach a lower center of chaos-gravity.

This is not to say i am discouraging your opinions or turning them down. I welcome this completion as it is an honest call to values dignity and culture.

However, the Neo-Messianic Savior culture that Democracy enables is not evil by default. What you call mob rule, is the most raw honest pure form of Individualism and personal freedoms. It is the most beautiful form of mass heresy.

We do not need an old-school dynasty that claims to be the Savior simply because they descend from some deity or were anointed by The Church

Populism is pure, it is chaotic and difficult to predict. The Savior-Monarch needs to earn their popularity, by gaining that support organically from their supporters. It's the most honest form of leadership. Cossacks chose their Hetman each year, and they were the most elite order of knights in all of Europe's traditional cavalries.

Though anyone may agree with your viewpoint, i personally admire "mob rule" as you put it ever so delectably
It's vibrant, it's colorful.. it's culturally enriching

Except when leaders are terrible, generally the society is brought down to their level. A la JFK and William Clinton with their philandering, Trump with his aptitude for being a total ahole and bring out the absolute worst in his enemies. Ultimately the people who "earn" popularity are those whom are the best entertainers, and a great entertainer does not always make a great leader.

“Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.”

― C.S. Lewis, Present Concerns

Arabs are no longer in the dark ages where they relied on trade to survive in harsh desert conditions, and had to become raiders and pirates to make a living.

You should read up on Islamic history.
Arabs haven't been in the Dark Ages for a long time, they started a golden age before Europeans, who got help from the Arab and North African Muslims to get out of the Dark Ages.

The Dark Ages didn't really exist, if you ask most historians. Classical Education cemented itself, Charlemagne started his own renaissance, the Gothic Architecture we all know and love in many Western European Churches started to take its place, and Agriculture was in a waxing phase.

[Catalonya]

The Ottoman empire was kinda fascis

How?

and very antisemitic

How?

Profit like never before, from trade and production revolutions, is pacifying people

That depends

My country, the EU, supports Palestine not because we don't recognize Israel. But because we built humanitarian aid shelter for poor palestinian families whose homes were destroyed by the Israeli (some say fascist regime in power at a time) state, who relocated natives by force in an apartheid fashion. Penelope Cruz, a major Hollywood actress drew attention to this crisis, that a state is subjecting the natives of a foreign state to. And we sanction Israel because they demolish those humanitarian shelters bought for and built by our euros. Built for needy palestinians whose habitation was destroyed for neoimperialistic non-corporate greed.

The Zionist state has no right to exist at all.

For all we know, islam was created by white europeans

Which is false

But religion is no longer necessary for tribal dominance of trade for survival of isolated communities in harsh unwelcoming environments.

It almost never was

muslims seeing Allah doesn't exist

False. Al-Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

Communism was defeated as it's fascist foe it defeated, to fall in it's turn to personal profit values like Individualism and healthy selfishness culture. People began seeing they matter more than an unknown rambling dictator on some speaker form behind a desk, and the new era of anti-establishmentarianism is brought to light. That sees Individualism triumph over Authoritarian WW2 generation of political structures with outdated ideologies that stopped fooling the increasingly more educated masses that begin thinking and judging for themselves or at least with each other as groups, instead of obeying or blindly believing the faith-like regime. Despite the massive dumbing down cultural policies the old regimes try constantly to inject the younger generations with.

No, many people would still blindly follow whoever they like

The TV is a prime example of fascists trying to maintain control through conservatism. When that failed, it was time to dumb them down with radical liberalism, to scare them into submitting to the leading structures. That fascist dying culture that used to be mainstream is falling as hard as it's communist scapegoat and the liberal scarecrow. To the new age of anti-political Populism.

Look at two major western countries. France and the US. Massive support in electing anti-establishment apolitical candidates, because fascism and it's helping shadow of socialism-communism are vanishing like a nightmare fades when waking up from it.
All ideologies are frowned upon by the new voting trends. Soon, NationStates will be a thing of the past or seen as a cultural relic of the funny times when people worshiped the false gods of politheist politics.

What are you talking about here?

Democracy is paving the way for Messianic Movements. Only one individual is allowed by laws to lead and save the people from a failing corrupt system around them. The New Monarch is anointed by the modern citizen to punish the treasonous functionary, and avenge the disenfranchised majority that rightfully feels exploited.

Again, what are you talking about?

Politics is a ghost of the hellenic past

No it's not, politics is still very alive today

Populism is the New Rome. It is marching trimphantly to crush the values and gods of the old millenium with the apathy to politics and desire for radical mass change that is the lowest common denominator.
No matter how much tolerance or acceptance the pandering fascist regime will dunk it's democratic-apparent image in, the masses know the corrupt officials were never on their side, they are just duping them as ever.

Again, what are you talking about?

The vote is the most powerful weapon of the modern age. Not the weapon, or even nuclear weaponry. Even those are slaves to whoever the people choose as their savior next. the people indirectly have the nuclear option, let that sink in for awhile...

Pretty sure weapons are still the most powerful

I don't debate theocrats. Your gods have been replaced by the will of secular modern people and our votes. You are in denial of your fascist way of life decaying around you.
I never said a zionist state has any rights, it is a theocracy just like yours that is crumbling with it's tribal roots dying out.
Social media is infinitely stronger than "Allah". it converted you to speak english, did it not? You serve western civilization and so does Allah whose name is now written in western letters and language to beg for new converts.
If you lived in the West, you'd have known the popular discontent everyone who isn't privileged by some party has with the regime's pets.
Sanctions against Russia nuke the kremlin economy worse than any atomic bombs would have.
Ottomans had a dynasty, several over time beginning with persian then turkic proto-fascist capitalist elites that dominated the trade, culture, military and religion of the population. Fascism never worked in the West because it is too oriental in form, the idea of people working together eliminates the natural competitive meritocracy, us westerners are traditionally drawn to.

Islam is not very popular in the West. We have most of the world's economy, since china is an atheistic bubble ready to burst, in islam's face, not wings. The ISIS brand of terror is not really earning many fans of the religion. Since ISIS is extremely conservative, much like fascism, making it unpopular in a western modern civilization which had two world wars against so called fascism, defeating it every time.
Islam lost in the First world war, when it did with the Ottoman Empire.

Fascism relied on the Imperial Cult. The Religion of a Universal Capital.
Rome's Catholicism died when the Vatican no longer ruled the latin speaking world
Constantinople's Orthodoxy died when Crusaders and Muslims conquered Byzantium
Islam died when Ottoman Empire, the empire of it's imperial capital cult lost it's dominion in WW1

You are living in a fascist like bubble much like the Romans did when they thought their worldview was invincible. Enter Hannibal, Spartacus & Allarex

Soon you will be feeding your american speaking children with dollars earned from the convenience store you work for, or own if lucky. That is the life of submission to Allah your religion promised you.

Our cultures are all converging from neo-syncretism. We are all being culturally assimilated into the post-modern world. You cannot resist, no matter how much you try, conservatism like yours is a relict of a distant and long forgotten past.
There are more atheists in the world than muslims. The absence of god is why fascism lost and is frowned upon modernly, because people woke up to secularism. And it's undeniable absolute truth.

God is nothing more than a sad excuse to get people to kill other people to grab their resources, wives, daughters, land and moral or prestigious victory status of socially winning to gain more followers and popular support.

Choose life. Choose a career. Choose crusading against Islam as a keyboard warrior-for-hire sellsword who makes their ancestors proud in resisting fascism, not because it's antisemitic and antisecular and antimodern, but because it's the best use of your free time online, when engaging in debates.

Still, i don't debate theocrats. They've been brain baked in the sun too long to ever hope to out-debate me.

Also religion is nothing more than a poor culture, by now. A historical event of mass fetishism.
Forget fascism, fetishism is the New IN trend!

PS: You're welcome for this wake up call. Most muslim women are closeted lesbians anyway. Have you browsed social media lately>?
That's why they come to the west, islam is too fascist and oppresses their sexual personal freedoms, just like western fascist did and failed to, achieving the contrasting effect in the end leading to the "degenerate west" you now bow down to, by speaking our language and absorbing our cultures.

ISIS is a dying reactionary conservative crypto-fascist beacon that is the last breath of the Ghost of Islam

[Constantinopolis]

The Dark Ages didn't really exist, if you ask most historians. Classical Education cemented itself, Charlemagne started his own renaissance, the Gothic Architecture we all know and love in many Western European Churches started to take its place, and Agriculture was in a waxing phase.

Not to mention that the Roman Empire was doing just fine in the East, and included...

[Novowarsawianka]

The Dark Ages didn't really exist, if you ask most historians. Classical Education cemented itself, Charlemagne started his own renaissance, the Gothic Architecture we all know and love in many Western European Churches started to take its place, and Agriculture was in a waxing phase.

Not to mention that the Roman Empire was doing just fine in the East, and included...

You might have taken the wrong link, that picture looks nothing like Rome.

But petty squabbles aside, the Dark Ages did happen.
They might have not been the great anti-intellectual mess that some picture it to be, but an anti-civilizational one to be sure. Unceasing brutal anti-semitism, barbaric religious oppression, religious wars, acts against free ideas in science, and one of the most absurd acts of all: going against bathing. Yes, the church of the Dark Ages was set against bathing, which was rather common before then. It first went against public baths, then against bathing in general (to my recollection, the church did not want people to even have sex while naked). This lack of washing resulted most likely in things like the plague spreading even faster.

Classical education did take it's roots at this time, Charlemagne did make his tiny renaissance yes, and art still continued to evolve, but it does not make this time any less Dark.

[Claorica]

china is an atheistic bubble

not quite, my friend. China is far from a monolith, and it is very quickly changing from an Atheistic culture with a sizable Buddhist minority to an Atheistic Culture with sizable Christian and Buddhist Minorities. It is on track to become the world's largest Christian Nation in the next decade, and that's not likely to slow down whatsoever.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I don't debate theocrats.

Then why did you make this long post?

Your gods

I'm monotheistic, not polytheistic

have been replaced by the will of secular modern people and our votes.

Debateable

You are in denial of your fascist way of life decaying around you.

I'm not a fascist.

a theocracy just like yours.

I don't live in a theocracy

Social media is infinitely stronger than "Allah".

it converted you to speak english, did it not?

Nope. I was born and raised in the USA.

You serve western civilization

Not really

and so does Allah

False

whose name is now written in western letters and language

It's also written in Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, Amazigh languages, Urdu, Farsi, Dari, etc. Not sure what your argument here is

to beg for new converts.

No one's begging for converts. Converts come willingly in large numbers, that's why Al-Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

If you lived in the West

Lived in it all my life

you'd have known the popular discontent everyone who isn't privileged by some party has with the regime's pets.

What are you talking about?

Ottomans had a dynasty, several over time beginning with persian then turkic proto-fascist capitalist elites that dominated the trade, culture, military and religion of the population.

1: The Ottoman Empire was founded by Turks, not Persians
2: The Empire was multicultural and multireligious

Fascism never worked in the West because it is too oriental in form

It worked in Italy and Nazi Germany for a while

the idea of people working together eliminates the natural competitive meritocracy, us westerners are traditionally drawn to.

The idea of people working together, if you mean "owning the means of production, working for the common man" comes from socialism and communism, not fascism

Islam is not very popular in the West.

I know

We have most of the world's economy, since china is an atheistic bubble ready to burst, in islam's face, not wings.

It's not gonna burst in Al-Islam's face, where'd you get that from?

The ISIS brand of terror is not really earning many fans of the religion.

Is that why Al-Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? And what do they have to do with Al-Islam anyway?

Since ISIS is extremely conservative, much like fascism, making it unpopular in a western modern civilization which had two world wars against so called fascism, defeating it every time.

Yes, ISIS is bad, almost everyone knows this

Islam lost in the First world war, when it did with the Ottoman Empire.

...what?

Fascism relied on the Imperial Cult. The Religion of a Universal Capital.

Now what are you talking about?

Islam died when Ottoman Empire, the empire of it's imperial capital cult lost it's dominion in WW1

Yeah, this is plum false. Religions are not tied to nations

You are living in a fascist like bubble

Not a fascist.

Soon you will be feeding your american speaking children with dollars earned from the convenience store you work for, or own if lucky.

Actually, I want to be an Islamic theologian and a historian/professor in African, African-American and Islamic history

in That is the life of submission to Allah your religion promised you.

Someone doesn't know Al-Islam

Our cultures are all converging from neo-syncretism. We are all being culturally assimilated into the post-modern world.

Depends on location

You cannot resist, no matter how much you try, conservatism like yours is a relict of a distant and long forgotten past.

Not really

There are more atheists in the world than muslims.

Blatantly false: "According to sociologist Phil Zuckerman, broad estimates of those who have an absence of belief in a God range from 500 to 750 million people worldwide. Other estimates state that there are 200 million to 240 million self-identified atheists worldwide"
There are 1.6 billion Muslims and counting.

The absence of god is why fascism lost and is frowned upon modernly, because people woke up to secularism. And it's undeniable absolute truth.

That's not true either. Fascism is not a religious concept.

God is nothing more than a sad excuse to get people to kill other people to grab their resources, wives, daughters, land and moral or prestigious victory status of socially winning to gain more followers and popular support.

Lol ok

Still, i don't debate theocrats.

Then why did you dedicate a this long of a post, let alone even reply to me, if you don't debate with theocrats?

PS: You're welcome for this wake up call. Most muslim women are closeted lesbians anyway. Have you browsed social media lately>?

You have a problem with making claims if the best proof you have is social media

That's why they come to the west, islam is too fascist

False

leading to the "degenerate west" you now bow down to

I don't bow down to the West

ISIS is a dying reactionary conservative crypto-fascist beacon that is the last breath of the Ghost of Islam

ISIS has nothing to do with Al-Islam

You should really read up on what Al-Islam is. There's a thread to talk about Al-Islam actually, you should go there.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Actually, Catalonya, we should go there, because this discussion about Al-Islam should be in that thread I linked to you. I'll be there insha-Allah, I hope you will too.

[Catalonya]

I only know enough about that dead religion to bash it.

In poorer under-educated regions of the world, which are so because islam and it's 'golden age' revolution that happened in the dark ages, though they mostly live in conditions that are worse than those dark ages, modernly... it is customary for the dominant religion to force the masses to submit to the political regime through religious and theocratic (proto-fascist ideological) dogma

islam exists only to destroy the cultural development of a society, which is why muslim nations have less developed or educated citizens than normal, who are easily bullied by government radicals and terrorist regimes to act like sheep, solely to discourage Individualism

Individualism is a source of cultural progress and fast development of freedom in the West. Islam is a contraceptive method to that Individualism

Force people through religion to act like everyone else, and no one will dare acting or speaking or thinking too far outside the box. This is why ISIS exists. Because Islam is fundamentally opposed to the basic freedoms we decadent westics enjoy and publicly bathe in.

I personally revel in performing every halal act that Allah and Her muslims frown upon. Also Allah is known in the west as Artemis, the moon goddess. Selene. Lilith, the Whore of Babylon. Isis, the Queen of Heaven. But somehow, also Aphrodite-Venus the prostitute goddess
Sister and former lover and mother of Lucifer, Apollo, Christ, Serapis, Osiris-Horus.
Former lover to Iblis, Satan, Seth, the Devil.

Islam is matriarchy. The witches who are concubines in the harem fought for dominance and whoever won the court intrigues placed her son as the new Sultan. To rule as a regent for her, as a puppet.

Also the Invisible Imam is Iblis. Satan. Paganism uses the pentagram as a symbol of lilith and islam. The moon crescent is not decorative seal of the moon cult, it is the seal of Lilith the Mother of Demons. The Pentagram is seal of Venus-Morningstar and worshiped by wicca/pagan witches.
Christianity is the cult that worships Lucifer Morningstar (known in pagan pre-christian west as Arthur the Sun, brother of Morgan le Fay the Moon)
Satanism is the cult that worships Satan, his brother
Catholicism worships Lilith, just like Islam

Because Roman Catholicism is almost completely pagan from the old roman pre-christian age, it lends the most from islam that also has pre-christian pagan roots as it appeared before christianity, in the same age when paganism dominated most of the known world, especially Eurasia.

Basically if you're a muslim, you worship the Virgin Mary. Isis of the Egyptians.

All historic religions are a hoax. Cults worshiping technologically advanced "aliens" who are demons from another dimension.
But this discussion has no place in this thread, so i will no longer entertain this line of thought.
I was explaining to you why i will remain here and avoid the thread, because i already know all there is to possibly know about this boring subject that is ancient history in this modern predominantly secular world

Desu Vult

[Kubumba Tribe]

I only know enough about that dead religion to bash it.

In other words, you know almost nothing about it.

Everything you said about Al-Islam is complete hogwash, and it's laughable that you say we've done almost nothing for the world. It's also laughable that you call a religion with a rich history, vibrant culture, divine ethics, and 1.6 billion+ followers 'dead'.

Again, you are in dire need of learning about Al-Islam. Read the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, go to a masjid near you, and go here.

[Catalonya]

Stop ordering me around, this petulant insolence is revolting. You're censoring all my facts with repetitive spam.

Anime is worshiped & followed by more people who watch it than your moon cult. And it's not even a religion

[Kubumba Tribe]

Stop ordering me around, this petulant insolence is revolting.

And you lying about my religion isn't?
Well, tbh, I'm not too offended by it because it's blatant falsehood
And what's wrong with me trying to help you?

You're censoring all my facts with repetitive spam.

I'm not a mod, I can't censor anything
Besides, the same could be said about you lying about Al-Islam
Also, countering an argument isn't spam. If that was the case, this whole General subforum would be shut down.

Anime is worshiped & followed by more people who watch it than your moon cult.

I'm not in a moon cult, so idk how this comparison relates to me

And it's not even a religion

https://www.google.com/search?q=religio ... e&ie=UTF-8, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
Al-Islam fits the definition of a religion.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Also, this is a threadjack, we should be going here