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Why isn't Socialism/Communism as frowned upon as Fascism?

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Kavagrad
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Postby Kavagrad » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:57 am

Telconi wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Last summer I went on holiday to Normandy. Quite a few Americans were violent against nazis there, and that was an extremely good thing.


Those Nazis weren't Americans...

Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:06 am

Kavagrad wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Those Nazis weren't Americans...

Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.


Tbqh we should go back to the good ol days when we crushed both extremes.
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Oil exporting People
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Postby Oil exporting People » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:14 am

Kavagrad wrote:Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.


Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.
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Halfblakistan
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Postby Halfblakistan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:16 am

Because socialism is awesome, and fascism is the opposite.
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:41 am

Probably because fascism had more of a direct cause to the deadliest conflict in human history than socialism and communism.
Last edited by The Greater Ohio Valley on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:10 am

Claorica wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:You, regarding the question in the title. In a country where our government won't even condemn violence committed by neo-Nazis, fascism is not receiving nearly as much opposition as communism.


You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.


Oh hey gonna need sauce for that.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:16 am

Vassenor wrote:
Claorica wrote:
You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.


Oh hey gonna need sauce for that.

You genuinely need a source to say that a group of violent terrorists would not have caused violence if they had not been present?
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:17 am

Purpelia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Oh hey gonna need sauce for that.

You genuinely need a source to say that a group of violent terrorists would not have caused violence if they had not been present?


For the accusation that it started when the counter-protesters struck first, yes.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:35 am

Vassenor wrote:
Purpelia wrote:You genuinely need a source to say that a group of violent terrorists would not have caused violence if they had not been present?


For the accusation that it started when the counter-protesters struck first, yes.

A counter protest from a registered violent terrorist organization is in its own right a threat of violence. And last time I checked in america you can respond with force legitimately to ward off a threat of direct violence. E.G. if someone points a gun at you than you don't have to wait for him to fire in order for it to count as self defense.
Last edited by Purpelia on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Mattopilos II
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Postby Mattopilos II » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:38 am

I can think of a few reasons, but I would say their ideas are more easily accepted by a liberal ideology than fascists, their systems manage to last longer than fascists, and they like to at least attempt more of an overarching theory to their intents and ends compared to fascists.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:40 am

Purpelia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
For the accusation that it started when the counter-protesters struck first, yes.

A counter protest from a registered violent terrorist organization is in its own right a threat of violence. And last time I checked in america you can respond with force legitimately to ward off a threat of direct violence. E.G. if someone points a gun at you than you don't have to wait for him to fire in order for it to count as self defense.


And can you prove that said "registered violent terrorist organization" (whatever the hell that means) was even present?

Especially when we have evidence that the neo-nazis were planning to start violence no matter what.

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/data-release-unite-right-planning-chats-demonstrate-violent-intent/

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/data-release-discord-chats-planned-armed-neo-nazi-militia-operations-charlottesville/

And video of them starting shit.

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/white-supremacist-mob-carrying-torches-attacks-anti-racist-protesters-charlottesville/
Last edited by Vassenor on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kavagrad
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Postby Kavagrad » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:07 am

Oil exporting People wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.


Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

When libertarian socialists start advocating or carrying out the killing of entire racial groups, you'll have a valid point.
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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:16 am

Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence that the neo-nazis were planning to start violence no matter what.


Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence


Vassenor wrote:evidence




You never fail to crack me up.

Kavagrad wrote:
Oil exporting People wrote:
Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

When libertarian socialists start advocating or carrying out the killing of entire racial groups, you'll have a valid point.


You're advocating the killing of entire ideological groups and nationalities, what is your point?
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:20 am

Trumptonium wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence that the neo-nazis were planning to start violence no matter what.


Vassenor wrote:Especially when we have evidence


Vassenor wrote:evidence




You never fail to crack me up.


Was there an actual point you were trying to make or were you just desperately searching for a cheap gotcha?
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:29 am

You'll find very few left-wingers (who are not ardent supporters of authoritarian 'socialist' regimes) who deny that events like the purges, mass imprisonment, suspension of rights and Holodomor or other famines/failures are atrocities.

But laying them at the feet of "socialism/communism" is like saying the Great Depression was the result of fascist policy because the American industrialists of that time all looked up to Hitler. Yes, they were right-leaning, pro-corporate capitalist models of governance but were fundamentally dissimilar. Much like the USSR is fundamentally different to libertarian socialism or social democracy (which are also fundamentally different to each other) though all 3 are left-leaning, pro-worker 'socialist' models of governance (there are various arguments that neither social democracy nor the USSR attain meaningful qualifiers to be considered 'socialist').
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:30 am

Trumptonium wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:When libertarian socialists start advocating or carrying out the killing of entire racial groups, you'll have a valid point.


You're advocating the killing of entire ideological groups and nationalities, what is your point?

What nationalities is advocated to be slaughtered in "Nazis should not be allowed to exist", exactly?
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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Catalonya
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Postby Catalonya » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:53 am

Oil exporting People wrote:Follow the event chain and see the question that started it off. Further, reflect upon what you said about stomping it out and then consider what exactly that entails to your own beliefs.

Stomping them out leads to war crimes that give moral victory to their cause, and only emboldens them to fight even more fanatically
So in whose advantage is that strategy?

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:59 am

Claorica wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:You, regarding the question in the title. In a country where our government won't even condemn violence committed by neo-Nazis, fascism is not receiving nearly as much opposition as communism.


You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

"The car guy" has been pretty widely supported.

Crowdfunding websites have had to continually remove campaigns intended to provide financial support to his legal defence. Various alt-right figures have tweeted direct or implicit support, while others made token denouncements.
Not to mention the zillion alt-right falsehoods that Fields was actually an anti-Trump leftist; a false-flag attacker; or misidentifying him as the car's previous owner and claiming that person was an anti-Trump leftist.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:01 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Claorica wrote:
You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

"The car guy" has been pretty widely supported.

Crowdfunding websites have had to continually remove campaigns intended to provide financial support to his legal defence. Various alt-right figures have tweeted direct or implicit support, while others made token denouncements.
Not to mention the zillion alt-right falsehoods that Fields was actually an anti-Trump leftist; a false-flag attacker; or misidentifying him as the car's previous owner and claiming that person was an anti-Trump leftist.


Or insisting that he was fleeing a violent mob that was beating his car with bats despite it being completely undamaged in the video.
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Postby Community Values » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:05 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Claorica wrote:
You know those neonazis were attacked by leftists, right? No one's supported the car guy, but the violence at the rally wouldn't have happened if the antifa fascists hadn't been there.

"The car guy" has been pretty widely supported.

Crowdfunding websites have had to continually remove campaigns intended to provide financial support to his legal defence. Various alt-right figures have tweeted direct or implicit support, while others made token denouncements.
Not to mention the zillion alt-right falsehoods that Fields was actually an anti-Trump leftist; a false-flag attacker; or misidentifying him as the car's previous owner and claiming that person was an anti-Trump leftist.

wow, a violent minority supports a violent person.
Is this what counts as "pretty widely supported" these days?
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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:24 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Trumptonium wrote:
You're advocating the killing of entire ideological groups and nationalities, what is your point?

What nationalities is advocated to be slaughtered in "Nazis should not be allowed to exist", exactly?


Nationalities that happen to support nazism at the time of his slaughtering, I suppose.

He'd have wiped out over 20 million Germans in 1940, more than the Allies managed times five, or he could go all-out if he didn't want to do some Nazi-vetting, I guess. However that would go. How would that go for anyone, anyway?
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Claorica
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Postby Claorica » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:45 am

Kavagrad wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Those Nazis weren't Americans...

Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Yeah no. Fuck you and your Antifa "we should kill nazis wherever we find them" bullshit.

It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal, Because it really is self defense when "It's ok to punch/kill nazis/fascists no matter what" and then "if you don't agree with me you are a fascist" are both said by the same leftists.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:45 am

Claorica wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:Since when was that relevant? Nazis are Nazis, and their hateful ideology should be stomped out wherever it is found.

Yeah no. Fuck you and your Antifa "we should kill nazis wherever we find them" bullshit.

It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal, Because it really is self defense when "It's ok to punch/kill nazis/fascists no matter what" and then "if you don't agree with me you are a fascist" are both said by the same leftists.


Where does that post say anything about killing?
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Claorica
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Postby Claorica » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:47 am

Vassenor wrote:
Claorica wrote:Yeah no. Fuck you and your Antifa "we should kill nazis wherever we find them" bullshit.

It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal, Because it really is self defense when "It's ok to punch/kill nazis/fascists no matter what" and then "if you don't agree with me you are a fascist" are both said by the same leftists.


Where does that post say anything about killing?


The only way you will ever stomp out every Nazi is by wiping them out. That's how the Commies did it, that's how pretty much every other far-left regime did it.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 am

Claorica wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Where does that post say anything about killing?


The only way you will ever stomp out every Nazi is by wiping them out. That's how the Commies did it, that's how pretty much every other far-left regime did it.


I dunno, Germany managed to do it quite well without killing people.
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