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What even is diversity?

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Trumptonium
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What even is diversity?

Postby Trumptonium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:28 pm

We often see this word swung around. But what is it?

Some claim that 'diversity' (in the context of 'equality') is merely giving people representation and acknowledging their existence and participation in society. However, increasingly as we achieve this 'equality' and beyond, it seems clear that 'diversity' doesn't stop at representation. Diversity simply means less and less people of a 'traditional' background, or in plain English, less white people.

For example, the Guardian this week launched a tirade against British Prime Minister Theresa May as her cabinet reshuffle has failed to represent modern Britain, as the cabinet is 92% white. One group that has been missing out on representation is black people, described as "just one."

However, there are 28 cabinet ministers (22 officially, but 28 attend cabinet). Of those, one person is black. This gives us a cabinet that is 3.5% black.
According to the census of 2011, black people composed 3% of the UK. So at the moment, black people are overrepresented in the UK Cabinet. However, many liberals consider the black community perspective to be disregarded and them not being represented. (Yes, white people are overrepresented, but merely by 1 cabinet member (UK: 87% white) so hardly cause for outrage.)

Let's look at the US Supreme Court, an institution often derided as being completely out of touch with modern America.

Currently in the United States, Protestants make up 53% of the United States as per the census, or 48% of the United States as per the most recent Gallup survey. [*] Non-hispanic whites also make up 62% of the United States [*], while non-Jewish non-Hispanic whites (ethnic Europeans by descent) make up 59% of the United States.

However in the current Supreme Court, the number of people belonging to the majority religion of the United States is zero, while the number of people who are non-hispanic non-Jewish whites is 4 out of 9 judges or 44%. So the largest group in the United States, the one most often derided .... is underrepresented.

Silly addition to the thread, but let's look at how EA crusaded against it's fanbase (looking at youtube comments and likes/dislikes anyway) by including black people in the British side of the game for the sake of what they called diversity. For what we know, there were 15 000 black volunteers serving with or within British Forces during WW1. [*] I will very generously add all 61 000 South African troops as 'black', although that is highly unlikely to be even half true. We are thus left at 76 000 black troops at some point during WW1. There were however 8.69 million men in the British Forces between 1914 and 1918, a rate of 0.87%. In 64 player servers (in the assumption all 64 were British, impossible), just one black person would shift representation of black people in the British Forces to twice as large as it was in reality.

TL;DR
Black people are overrepresented in the British cabinet
White (European-American) people are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court
Protestants are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court

In what way can you look at these statistics without reaching the conclusion that some 'underprivileged/underrepresented' groups are actually overrepresented, and that those who are offended by the lack of supposed diversity are actually mathematically inept?

So ... what is diversity?

My view is that for a large part of the liberal left, 'diversity' is no longer a word with a quantifiable definition, but simply the state of ever decreasing representation of the original population.
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Abraxim
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Postby Abraxim » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:31 pm

Easy. It's a liberal buzzword used to justify a globalist agenda without borders
Last edited by Abraxim on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:34 pm

I suppose, just from an objective definition, it means "a mix of different things." Now, it means different things in different contexts obviously, and we see it most with race, gender, religion etc. I don't think diversity in regards to race, culture, religion, whatever is a bad thing, it can be a very good thing in most all cases. Y'know, I live in a diverse country, and I'm glad that I do. What bothers me is when people try to push diversity, as in say, within a company or university, where they push for it so much that it becomes stupid and meaningless.

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:36 pm

White (European-American) people are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court


You heard it here folks, Jews are not white europeans.

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Postby NERVUN » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Yes, yes, there, there. I know the idea that other people might have something to contribute comes as something of a shock.

And yes, I know, seeing faces that aren't yours in power scares you.

You're begging the question. We all know the point of this thread. You're not fooling anyone, so why not actually be honest with us and yourself?
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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Trumptonium wrote:TL;DR
Black people are overrepresented in the British cabinet
White (European-American) people are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court
Protestants are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court


Women are underrepresented. They are ~50% of the population but none are supreme court judges. But yeah, the real issue is European Americans.
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Herzegovenia
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Postby Herzegovenia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Mister Trumptoniom, you are very, very much correct. What the new “left” calls “diversity” is, indeed, overrepresentation.

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Erythrean Thebes
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Postby Erythrean Thebes » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:41 pm

I think many of these groups (I guess implicitly) do not believe that power should be meritocratic today, it should be proportional. And why do they think so? Because they think there is no reason why white people should not have to suffer that as a consequence of having disregarded fair assessment and meritocratic principles in all of previous human history
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The Widening Gyre
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Postby The Widening Gyre » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:41 pm

Trumptonium wrote:For example, the Guardian this week launched a tirade against British Prime Minister Theresa May as her cabinet reshuffle has failed to represent modern Britain, as the cabinet is 92% white. One group that has been missing out on representation is black people, described as "just one."


You clearly didn't read that article.
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Herzegovenia
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Postby Herzegovenia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:42 pm

NERVUN wrote:Yes, yes, there, there. I know the idea that other people might have something to contribute comes as something of a shock.

And yes, I know, seeing faces that aren't yours in power scares you.

You're begging the question. We all know the point of this thread. You're not fooling anyone, so why not actually be honest with us and yourself?

Sorry, what do you mean?
I cannot see any sort of hidden meaning in this article. What do you think he actually meant? And why?
You got me curious now.
Last edited by Herzegovenia on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Earth Industries LLC
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Postby Earth Industries LLC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:45 pm

Representation shouldn't be based on race, and diversity shouldn't refer to race either.
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Abraxim
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Postby Abraxim » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:45 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:
Trumptonium wrote:TL;DR
Black people are overrepresented in the British cabinet
White (European-American) people are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court
Protestants are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court


Women are underrepresented. They are ~50% of the population but none are supreme court judges. But yeah, the real issue is European Americans.


Your liberal victomhood blinds you. There are 3 Supreme Court Justices who (without assuming their gender, yet haven't said to me what their preferred pronoun is) are women.
Last edited by Abraxim on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:47 pm

In this video, The Daily Conversation (a heavily liberal outlet) shows America's "Sources of Immigration" by state for every year.

In 1920, we see there being 11 nationalities being the 'largest' in at least one state. Among them: Germany (1.6 million immigrants), Italy (1.6 million immigrants), Russia (1.6 million immigrants), Poland (1.2 million immigrants), Canada(1.2 million immigrants), Bahamas (number unknown - plurality in Florida), Sweden (number unknown - plurality in Minnesota), Norway (number unknown - plurality in North & South Dakota, Alaska), Hawaii (number unknown - plurality in Hawaii), United Kingdom (number unknown - Virginia/Alabama/Utah/Idaho/Wyoming) and Mexico (number unknown - plurality in New Mexico, Arizona and Texas)

So 11.

All in all, no nationality dominates the United States, as the largest is Germany which has a plurality of its ethnic immigrants in 12 states out of 50.

When we reach 1990, the narrator said "America began to look like the diverse country we live in today"

When in reality, Mexico at the time of that census sent 4.3 million immigrants (no other country sent more than 1 million) and it represented the largest single migration recorded in a census. They were the plurality in 18 states. (Remember, when in 1920 it the largest was Germany at 12 states, it wasn't diverse)

In 2010 ... Mexicans made up the plurality of immigrants in 32 states.

How is that diversity, and not simply colonisation?

Find the part where the US is most diverse
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=behsmaHh2bg
Last edited by Trumptonium on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:49 pm

Abraxim wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:
Women are underrepresented. They are ~50% of the population but none are supreme court judges. But yeah, the real issue is European Americans.


Your liberal victomhood blinds you. There are 3 Supreme Court Justices.


Correction 3 Supreme court Justices. Also victimhood??? We can also move to the next issue of why in a democratic society women are underrepresented even though they constitute 50% of the population.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:50 pm

Trumptonium wrote:How is that diversity, and not simply colonization?

Because words have meanings.

Find the part where the US is most diverse

I don't know, the only type of diversity this map shows is diversity of largest first-gen immigrant group by state, which isn't really much of a measurement.

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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:51 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
White (European-American) people are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court


You heard it here folks, Jews are not white europeans.


You're questioning this?

Your amazement boggles me. For one, Jews are Semites from the Middle East, not Europe.

For two, I was referring to European Americans in the context of European ethnic groups, rather than race. Jews are not a European ethnic group, in all four of their types.

NERVUN wrote:Yes, yes, there, there. I know the idea that other people might have something to contribute comes as something of a shock.

And yes, I know, seeing faces that aren't yours in power scares you.


You're begging the question. We all know the point of this thread. You're not fooling anyone, so why not actually be honest with us and yourself?


Doesn't this qualify as breaking the gloating rule?

;)

The Conez Imperium wrote:
Trumptonium wrote:TL;DR
Black people are overrepresented in the British cabinet
White (European-American) people are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court
Protestants are underrepresented in the US Supreme Court


Women are underrepresented. They are ~50% of the population but none are supreme court judges. But yeah, the real issue is European Americans.


There's three women. Underrepresented yes, but I gave other examples. Either women or men will always be underrepresented statistically anyway, a 50/50 split is obviously impossible in SCOTUS.
Last edited by Trumptonium on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Trumptonium wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:
You heard it here folks, Jews are not white europeans.


You're questioning this?

Your amazement boggles me. For one, Jews are Semites from the Middle East, not Europe.

For two, I was referring to European Americans in the context of European ethnic groups, rather than race. Jews are not a European ethnic group, in all four of their types.

Pretty much all Jews in America are white and european. Part of the population in Israel is middle eastern but all other notable jewish populations are European. Please take your nazi garbage and throw it in the trash.

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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:Question op:
Do you think non-white people shouldn't be allowed in government?


No.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:54 pm

So if I - a white person - move to the UK, I automatically get to be part of the original population?

Neat-o.

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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:
Correction 3 Supreme court Justices. Also victimhood??? We can also move to the next issue of why in a democratic society women are underrepresented even though they constitute 50% of the population.

Because people don't vote for them.
Are you going to force people to vote for women?


Well to be fair, the judicial system is a different beast in that it's not a democracy open to the society it serves.

In the case of democracy - parliament, the US senate doesn't it make you wonder why women are largely absent from politics. Note there is a difference between acknowledging that women are underrepresented and the methods to fix said under representation.
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Abraxim
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Postby Abraxim » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:
Abraxim wrote:
Your liberal victomhood blinds you. There are 3 Supreme Court Justices.


Correction 3 Supreme court Justices. Also victimhood??? We can also move to the next issue of why in a democratic society women are underrepresented even though they constitute 50% of the population.


Well, first, we are a Republican society. Second, because presidents haven't chose as many women for whatever the case, either they feel that another person is better qualified, supports the presidents agenda more, or otherwise because there is less of a pool of women to chose from historically and currently. Those could be very possible answers without resorting to a claim of sexiam.

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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:59 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Trumptonium wrote:
You're questioning this?

Your amazement boggles me. For one, Jews are Semites from the Middle East, not Europe.

For two, I was referring to European Americans in the context of European ethnic groups, rather than race. Jews are not a European ethnic group, in all four of their types.

Pretty much all Jews in America are white and european. Part of the population in Israel is middle eastern but all other notable jewish populations are European. Please take your nazi garbage and throw it in the trash.


You are incredibly ignorant.

Ashkenazis are European-settled Jews, Sephardim are Iberian-settled Jews and Mizrahis are Eastern-settled Jews, all three groups of whom are a Semitic people who originate from the Middle East, along with Beta people who are Ethopian-settled, the origins of whom are unknown.

Nobody with a brain has ever disputed the fact that Jews, of all types, are not ethnic Europeans (lest they converted, in which case they're not ethnic Jews which form 90%+ of Jews, by matrilineal line)

Take your fact-aversion garbage out of here
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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:00 pm

Esternial wrote:So if I - a white person - move to the UK, I automatically get to be part of the original population?

Neat-o.


No, you get to be a part of the immigrant population of wherever you came from.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Trumptonium wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Pretty much all Jews in America are white and european. Part of the population in Israel is middle eastern but all other notable jewish populations are European. Please take your nazi garbage and throw it in the trash.


You are incredibly ignorant.

Ashkenazis are European-settled Jews, Sephardim are Iberian-settled Jews and Mizrahis are Eastern-settled Jews, all three groups of whom are a Semitic people who originate from the Middle East, along with Beta people who are Ethopian-settled, the origins of whom are unknown.

Nobody with a brain has ever disputed the fact that Jews, of all types, are not ethnic Europeans (lest they converted, in which case they're not ethnic Jews which form 90%+ of Jews, by matrilineal line)

Take your fact-aversion garbage out of here

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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Trumptonium wrote:
Esternial wrote:So if I - a white person - move to the UK, I automatically get to be part of the original population?

Neat-o.


No, you get to be a part of the immigrant population of wherever you came from.

So are you basing your figures (e.g. 3% black) on UK-born citizens only or does that also include immigrants?

Because most of your OP is about people's skin color and religion and then at the very end you start talking about "original population".

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