Please point me to socialism that works.

[Novowarsawianka]

What countries in particular?

I dunno, I'm not an economics person. Sweden, France, Germany? I'm just saying to my knowledge, it works when you mix it with capitalism

And all of those are capitalist with a strong welfare system, nothing more.

Social Democracy is socially left leaning, but economically, it remains capitalist. Socialism and anything left of it would entail the nationalization of the means of production and so forth. Neither of those countries even considers it, in fact, with backing pro-free market treaties like the TTIP (a treaty which is openly set to limit the ability of a country to nationalize corporations and make privatization easier), those countries show that they are, and will remain, capitalist.

[Ostroeuropa]

I dunno, I'm not an economics person. Sweden, France, Germany? I'm just saying to my knowledge, it works when you mix it with capitalism

And all of those are capitalist with a strong welfare system, nothing more.

Social Democracy is socially left leaning, but economically, it remains capitalist. Socialism and anything left of it would entail the nationalization of the means of production and so forth. Neither of those countries even considers it, in fact, with backing pro-free market treaties like the TTIP (a treaty which is openly set to limit the ability of a country to nationalize corporations and make privatization easier), those countries show that they are, and will remain, capitalist.

Nationalization is not strictly necessary, and some on the far-left would argue is counterproductive.

[Kavagrad]

I mean, to be fair, the graph for Russian GDP per capita 1800-1990 is identical to what is happening there.

Also GDP per capita is not exactly a totally accurate measurement of the wellbeing of the populace. It's better to be an average person in the Czech Republic than the UAE, financially speaking.

Oh my, look at that drop in the 1990s. What could have possibly happened?

[Novowarsawianka]

Oh my, look at that drop in the 1990s. What could have possibly happened?

A total collapse of a collapsing state?
Look at the economy of any other former Soviet republic or puppet. Poland's economy for instance only kept growing after the fall of Soviet tyranny.

[Kavagrad]

Oh my, look at that drop in the 1990s. What could have possibly happened?

A total collapse of a collapsing state?
Look at the economy of any other former Soviet republic or puppet. Poland's economy for instance only kept growing after the fall of Soviet tyranny.

Poland? A country that hasn't hit 4.5% growth since before the collapse of the USSR, despite having that that mark multiple times over the preceding 30 years?

If you say so, pal.

[Novowarsawianka]

A total collapse of a collapsing state?
Look at the economy of any other former Soviet republic or puppet. Poland's economy for instance only kept growing after the fall of Soviet tyranny.

Poland? A country that hasn't hit 4.5% growth since before the collapse of the USSR, despite having that that mark multiple times over the preceding 30 years?

If you say so, pal.

The fiscal years of 2004, 2006, 2011 and 2007 saw a growth of well over 4.5%. Growth rates are not that relevant as the actual growth of the GDP, what is important is the growth of the GDP by five times of the one it had under socialism. Iraq currently has the largest growth rate in the world for instance.
And of course a country devastated by war would have a massive growth rate. You know, the war, the one where the Soviets and their Nazi allies occupied Poland?

[West Leas Oros]

Poland? A country that hasn't hit 4.5% growth since before the collapse of the USSR, despite having that that mark multiple times over the preceding 30 years?

If you say so, pal.

The fiscal years of 2004, 2006, 2011 and 2007 saw a growth of well over 4.5%. Growth rates are not that relevant as the actual growth of the GDP, what is important is the growth of the GDP by five times of the one it had under socialism. Iraq currently has the largest growth rate in the world for instance.
And of course a country devastated by war would have a massive growth rate. You know, the war, the one where the Soviets and their Nazi allies occupied Poland?

"the soviets and their nazi allies." that's rich.

[Kavagrad]

Poland? A country that hasn't hit 4.5% growth since before the collapse of the USSR, despite having that that mark multiple times over the preceding 30 years?

If you say so, pal.

The fiscal years of 2004, 2006, 2011 and 2007 saw a growth of well over 4.5%. Growth rates are not that relevant as the actual growth of the GDP, what is important is the growth of the GDP by five times of the one it had under socialism. Iraq currently has the largest growth rate in the world for instance.
And of course a country devastated by war would have a massive growth rate. You know, the war, the one where the Soviets and their Nazi allies occupied Poland?

I'll concede on that. Misread the source I was using.

[Novowarsawianka]

The fiscal years of 2004, 2006, 2011 and 2007 saw a growth of well over 4.5%. Growth rates are not that relevant as the actual growth of the GDP, what is important is the growth of the GDP by five times of the one it had under socialism. Iraq currently has the largest growth rate in the world for instance.
And of course a country devastated by war would have a massive growth rate. You know, the war, the one where the Soviets and their Nazi allies occupied Poland?

"the soviets and their nazi allies." that's rich.

Invading an independent country together, holding parades together, making non aggression treaties, sending Germany resources for their war in the West,... That is surely what bitter enemies do.

[West Leas Oros]

"the soviets and their nazi allies." that's rich.

Invading an independent country together, holding parades together, making non aggression treaties, sending Germany resources for their war in the West,... That is surely what bitter enemies do.

Right... Because you would invade your allies and denounce their system of government. WWII, it happened.

[Novowarsawianka]

Invading an independent country together, holding parades together, making non aggression treaties, sending Germany resources for their war in the West,... That is surely what bitter enemies do.

Right... Because you would invade your allies and denounce their system of government. WWII, it happened.

Alliances change. Had Hitler not invaded, Stalin wouldn't have either.

Also, let us not forget how Stalin thanked all the anti-Nazi pro-western fighters in Poland, Czechia and so on, by sending them to prison or their death.

[West Leas Oros]

Right... Because you would invade your allies and denounce their system of government. WWII, it happened.

Alliances change. Had Hitler not invaded, Stalin wouldn't have either.

Also, let us not forget how Stalin thanked all the anti-Nazi pro-western fighters in Poland, Czechia and so on, by sending them to prison or their death.

"Alliances change" you just contradicted your own arguement by moving the goalpost.

[Trumptonium]

A total collapse of a collapsing state?
Look at the economy of any other former Soviet republic or puppet. Poland's economy for instance only kept growing after the fall of Soviet tyranny.

Poland? A country that hasn't hit 4.5% growth since before the collapse of the USSR, despite having that that mark multiple times over the preceding 30 years?

If you say so, pal.

The fuck are you on about? It has hit 5%+ growth multiple times

In fucking fact, it's at 5% right now.

[Novowarsawianka]

Alliances change. Had Hitler not invaded, Stalin wouldn't have either.

Also, let us not forget how Stalin thanked all the anti-Nazi pro-western fighters in Poland, Czechia and so on, by sending them to prison or their death.

"Alliances change" you just contradicted your own arguement by moving the goalpost.

I said that they were their allies when they invaded Poland, which they were. What happened later is another topic.

[Taihei Tengoku]

(Image)

I mean, to be fair, the graph for Russian GDP per capita 1800-1990 is identical to what is happening there.

Also GDP per capita is not exactly a totally accurate measurement of the wellbeing of the populace. It's better to be an average person in the Czech Republic than the UAE, financially speaking.

The log distance between the Czech and Emiraiti is smaller than the one between the Czech and the Czech of 100 years ago.

[Kavagrad]

Poland? A country that hasn't hit 4.5% growth since before the collapse of the USSR, despite having that that mark multiple times over the preceding 30 years?

If you say so, pal.

The fuck are you on about? It has hit 5%+ growth multiple times

In fucking fact, it's at 5% right now.

Already stated that I misread the source I got that from. Pay attention.

[Kasynatia]

National Socialism actually works

[West Leas Oros]

National Socialism actually works

you mean nazism?

[Community Values]

National Socialism actually works

you mean nazism?

also known as national socialism.

[West Leas Oros]

you mean nazism?

also known as national socialism.

i know.

[Autumns]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works, which one will work for America. I ask this question because I understand that American socialists probably will be a lot more generous on religion, unions, minority issues, lgbtq+ issues, and immigration. I am asking will this work? If not, what needs to be adjusted to make American socialism work? My proposal would be a more liberal version of Titoism, with more rights given to unions, the religious, and lgbtq+ folk.

Somebody's probably said it already, but socialism does work

[West Leas Oros]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works, which one will work for America. I ask this question because I understand that American socialists probably will be a lot more generous on religion, unions, minority issues, lgbtq+ issues, and immigration. I am asking will this work? If not, what needs to be adjusted to make American socialism work? My proposal would be a more liberal version of Titoism, with more rights given to unions, the religious, and lgbtq+ folk.

Somebody's probably said it already, but socialism does work

add Norway and etc to that list.

[Community Values]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works, which one will work for America. I ask this question because I understand that American socialists probably will be a lot more generous on religion, unions, minority issues, lgbtq+ issues, and immigration. I am asking will this work? If not, what needs to be adjusted to make American socialism work? My proposal would be a more liberal version of Titoism, with more rights given to unions, the religious, and lgbtq+ folk.

Somebody's probably said it already, but socialism does work

daily reminder that social democrats killed Rosa Luxemburg, an advocate of actual socialist revolution.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Somebody's probably said it already, but socialism does work

add Norway and etc to that list.

Norway is Kuwait with white people and Swedes do better in the United States

Somebody's probably said it already, but socialism does work

daily reminder that social democrats killed Rosa Luxemburg, an advocate of actual socialist revolution.

daily reminder that Ebert and Stresemann did nothing wrong

[The Democratic Marxists]

Somebody's probably said it already, but socialism does work

daily reminder that social democrats killed Rosa Luxemburg, an advocate of actual socialist revolution.

Um... no. Comrade Rosa Luxemburg was killed by Freikorps militants, precursors to the Nazi movement. Not our social democratic brothers and sisters.