Please point me to socialism that works.

[Liriena]

This is a fake meme and you will be hearing from Toilet Paper USA's diaped-up lawyers

Nothing like leaving yourself wide open to the most glorious trolling to own the libs.

[Liriena]

And Chile and Uruguay's current leaders are both part of left/socialist parties and aren't afraid to experiment with socialist policies. Both of those countries are doing pretty well too.

lol rip

It's amazing how South America sometimes seems to collectively get its shit together, only to then collectively lose its mind again and make the same dumb decision.

[Aillyria]

Pretty much.

I wonder why they aren't so critical of the countless killed by virtueous capitalism......*Scramble for Africa*

That's not capitalism. Capitalism and socialism are just economic practices (You can have isolationist capitalist countries and imperialistic socialist countries), what you're thinking of is Imperialism, Corporatism, etc...

That was kinda the point. Capitalist nations don't exactly have a stellar track record either.

But many capitalists paint socialist thought as a monolithic doctrine.

[Rosengarten]

Burkina Faso, it was quite an oppressive regime, but the French and Ivorians were actively trying to overthrow him.....so...its sort of justified

Burkina Faso did a lot of good in it's short time and downfalls before Thomas Sankara's assassination. He prevented desertification, outlawed female genital mutilation and forced marriages, and set up mass vaccination procedures, including HIV. He became more authoritative as time went on due to counter-revolutionaries unfortunately.

[Kibbutz Unions]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works, which one will work for America. I ask this question because I understand that American socialists probably will be a lot more generous on religion, unions, minority issues, lgbtq+ issues, and immigration. I am asking will this work? If not, what needs to be adjusted to make American socialism work? My proposal would be a more liberal version of Titoism, with more rights given to unions, the religious, and lgbtq+ folk.

Examples of successful Socialism:
-Allende's Chile
-Sankara's Burkina Faso
-Mapai-led Israel
-Pre-Stalin Soviet Union
-Tito's Yugoslavia
-Anarchist Spain
-Norway (Sometimes considered to be a Social-Democracy but I'd regard it as Democratic Socialist)
-Cuba (To an extent)
-Kerala
-Rojava
-Some Post-Soviet/Soviet Model Countries that haven't fully abandoned Socialism like Albania (?)

Unfortunately I don't think Socialism will be implemented in the US- not because of Socialism's faults but because the military establishment (Which is overwhelmingly Right-Wing while also overwhelmingly massive and powerful) and the many armed right-wing militias would attempt a coup the moment Socialist policies will begin. Like, maybe there may be some welfare-related reforms at most but specifically in regards to the US I'm very pessimistic. It can at most become a Social-Democracy or UBI.

About other countries, well, for them the situation's quite different. For example in the West, I can see France moving towards Democratic Socialism in the near-future.

[Neutraligon]

That's not capitalism. Capitalism and socialism are just economic practices (You can have isolationist capitalist countries and imperialistic socialist countries), what you're thinking of is Imperialism, Corporatism, etc...

That was kinda the point. Capitalist nations don't exactly have a stellar track record either.

But many capitalists paint socialist thought as a monolithic doctrine.

Most modern western countries have some form of socialism in their government, even as they also tend to have some form of capitalism. An example would be the healthcare of many countries, or utilities.

[Oil exporting People]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works,

European social democracy tends to produce very favorable results.

which one will work for America.

Look up New Deal era policies. You had functioning socialism and than you tore it down.

Ok first off you need a better OP. This doesn't have your opinion. Next off gulags don't not equal socialism. They are not required for socialism to work, that's something the USSR cooked up

No, they are something that Imperial Russia cooked up. The Soviet Union just inherited the system. In fact, Soviet gulags were on average milder than Imperial ones because they were basically prisons with an actually fixed sentence that tried to keep people alive. Imperial gulags were just a place you sent people to die when you didn't want to be seen executing them.

I see you don't understand the difference between Welfare systems and Socialism, as well as having bought into Soviet revisionism.

[Aillyria]

That was kinda the point. Capitalist nations don't exactly have a stellar track record either.

But many capitalists paint socialist thought as a monolithic doctrine.

Most modern western countries have some form of socialism in their government, even as they also tend to have some form of capitalism. An example would be the healthcare of many countries, or utilities.

Capitalism and Socialism are mutually exclusive, universal healthcare and nationalized utility services are just statist policy.....that has nothing to do with the democratization means of production and hence its not socialism. The systems implemented by modern nations, which is almost invariably some brand of welfare state, is "social democracy" a branch of capitalism.

[The United Solar Dominions]

If Lenin's ideal communist state could pull off, it would be socialism that works. It would be very good however probably pretty prone to manipulation (the soviet union went from pretty chill to like "all hail plank-stalin. all hail stalin."

[Oil exporting People]

Capitalism and Socialism are mutually exclusive, universal healthcare and nationalized utility services are just statist policy.....that has nothing to do with the democratization means of production and hence its not socialism. The systems implemented by modern nations, which is almost invariably some brand of welfare state, is "social democracy" a branch of capitalism.

Most of this thread just consists of Liberals confusing a welfare state with Socialism it seems.

[Verlzonia]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works,

European social democracy tends to produce very favorable results.

Social Democracy isn't socialism.

[The Alma Mater]

The US Marine Corps.

Okok. THat is more communist than socialist.

[Vistulange]

Capitalism and Socialism are mutually exclusive, universal healthcare and nationalized utility services are just statist policy.....that has nothing to do with the democratization means of production and hence its not socialism. The systems implemented by modern nations, which is almost invariably some brand of welfare state, is "social democracy" a branch of capitalism.

Pretty much.
Most of this thread just consists of Liberals confusing a welfare state with Socialism it seems.

[Oil exporting People]

Most of this thread just consists of Liberals confusing a welfare state with Socialism it seems.

Pretty much.

Last page in particular.

[New haven america]

Capitalism and Socialism are mutually exclusive, universal healthcare and nationalized utility services are just statist policy.....that has nothing to do with the democratization means of production and hence its not socialism. The systems implemented by modern nations, which is almost invariably some brand of welfare state, is "social democracy" a branch of capitalism.

Most of this thread just consists of Liberals confusing a welfare state with Socialism it seems.

Actually, most of this thread is Right-wing Conservatives and Right leaning Libertarians confusing Socialism with Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism.

So, it's a typical Thursday on NSG.

[Oil exporting People]

Actually, most of this thread is Right-wing Conservatives and Right leaning Libertarians confusing Socialism with Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism.

> Says the person who believes the Nordics have Socialism

[New haven america]

Actually, most of this thread is Right-wing Conservatives and Right leaning Libertarians confusing Socialism with Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism.

> Says the person who believes the Nordics have Socialism

Social Democracy is a form of socialism as I've already explained above (Literally just a page ago), but you seem to have trouble understanding what I say, so I'm not surprised that you're having trouble with this concept.

[The Alma Mater]

Actually, most of this thread is Right-wing Conservatives and Right leaning Libertarians confusing Socialism with Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism.

> Says the person who believes the Nordics have Socialism

Considering the Nordics themselves also believe that, that is not that odd.

[New haven america]

> Says the person who believes the Nordics have Socialism

Considering the Nordics themselves also believe that, that is not that odd.

And the fact that the Nordic Model is commonly accepted as a set of Socialist practices (As I've stated before, Socialism-lite), so that makes it even less odd.

[Oil exporting People]

Considering the Nordics themselves also believe that, that is not that odd.

Says who?

After seeing his country held up as an example in the US presidential debate, Danish Prime Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen used an address at Harvard to explain the Nordic model to a US audience suddenly very interested in Denmark.
Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.

Social Democracy is a form of socialism as I've already explained above (Literally just a page ago), but you seem to have trouble understanding what I say, so I'm not surprised that you're having trouble with this concept.

I read it, but that doesn't change the fact it's wrong. Your inability to defend it without resorting to sarcasm is also very telling in this regard.

[Kassaran]

Socialists of NationStates, I have one question: What form of socialism works, which one will work for America. I ask this question because I understand that American socialists probably will be a lot more generous on religion, unions, minority issues, lgbtq+ issues, and immigration. I am asking will this work? If not, what needs to be adjusted to make American socialism work? My proposal would be a more liberal version of Titoism, with more rights given to unions, the religious, and lgbtq+ folk.

American Socialists will probably want religion to go away, so not generous there.

Unions will of course dominate as they aim towards the goal of eventually ending up a communist society as is the desired end state of all Socialist governments.

Minority Issues are a non sequitur as Socialism doesn't focus on issues of race or ethnicity, but rather the economy.

LGBTQ+ Issues also are a non sequitur as Socialism doesn't focus on issues of sexuality, but rather on the economy.

Immigration would definitely be more generous under a Socialist Government because Socialism assumes one can control such input and will only profit everyone by adding more to the pool.

Your questions you should be asking is why do you want a 'Socialist' economy to act as the ruling body for your nationstate of residence? Or are you wanting a government with Social Policies? This needs to be more specific.

[The Jewish Republic of North Israel]

All the socialists here saying capitalism has killed more than socialism, you are ignoring the fact that communism has never been the global economic system, if we looked at the risk of death in socialist and communist systems based on the direct effects of communism and socialism, versus the risk of death in capitalist systems based on the direct effects of capitalism, Im sure we'd find the numbers were much more in favour of capitalism.

And anyway, socialism and communism generally doesnt work, you just switch out CEOs for appointed overseers that will be much less liberal to their emplo- sorry "proletariat labourers" than CEOs are.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Considering the Nordics themselves also believe that, that is not that odd.

And the fact that the Nordic Model is commonly accepted as a set of Socialist practices (As I've stated before, Socialism-lite), so that makes it even less odd.

It's only accepted as such by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Socialism refers to ownership of the means of production, nothing more. The Nordic countries refute the notion that they're any form of socialists as well.

Welfare =/= socialism. If anything it equals Imperial German and Bismarck would scream his heart out if it was called socialist.

[New haven america]

Social Democracy is a form of socialism as I've already explained above (Literally just a page ago), but you seem to have trouble understanding what I say, so I'm not surprised that you're having trouble with this concept.

I read it, but that doesn't change the fact it's wrong. Your inability to defend it without resorting to sarcasm is also very telling in this regard.

And you have yet to actually prove me wrong in any capacity. Social Democracy is an accepted form of Socialism and you have yet to provide evidence to the contrary. Seeing as how it's an economic system you do know that there's more than one form of socialism, right?

You're inability to actually understand what I say without pulling out some nonsensical meaning or nonrelevant point just shows me that it would be a fruitless effort. Now, if you actually showed that you understood what I'm talking about and go after those points, that be great, but I have yet to see evidence that you'd do that.

[Kassaran]

So modern welfare-advocates are actually Neo-Prussian?