Iran Protests

[Republic of the Cristo]

I'm not one for imperialism... but I do agree that America should act as the world's police. We have done some truly awful things in the name of protecting American interests - but consider how worse things would be had we chosen to take a step back. What if we just never chose not to assist in the campaign against ISIS? What if we just suddenly stopped supporting the Afghan government? What if we just pulled all our military units out of S korea and Japan? The same goes for Europe. Imagine if we just left Israel to their own devices, how extreme they would suddenly become after being left to fend for themselves.

America has made some truly terrible mistakes across the world - but the tapestry has been knit, and if we leave it now it could run the risk of completely unraveling into chaos... or worse, someone takes our place. Could you imagine china or Russia being the world's police?

America must remain at the top and involved in world affairs, but we must be more humble and considerate in doing so in the future.

There's a difference between combating a rouge terrorist organisation that is not officially recognised like a country, and interfering in a countries internal affairs because they're not democratic/having no western liberal values.

Sure blow up the terrorist but don't think that ISIS and the Islamic government are somehow the same thing. This is a similar line of thinking that led to the disintegration of various governments in the middle east thanks to American intervention.

Well, the Iranian government has expressed a desire in the past to destroy the United States, currently supports numerous terrorist groups around the world, and, until recently, was attempting to create nuclear weapons - I would say that America has a vested interest in what these guys are doing.

[The Conez Imperium]

There's a difference between combating a rouge terrorist organisation that is not officially recognised like a country, and interfering in a countries internal affairs because they're not democratic/having no western liberal values.

Sure blow up the terrorist but don't think that ISIS and the Islamic government are somehow the same thing. This is a similar line of thinking that led to the disintegration of various governments in the middle east thanks to American intervention.

Well, the Iranian government has expressed a desire in the past to destroy the United States, currently supports numerous terrorist groups around the world, and, until recently, was attempting to create nuclear weapons - I would say that America has a vested interest in what these guys are doing.

How exactly can you be world police when you "topple a regime" that has a grudge against 1 specific country. I can't recall the last time the general assembly said Iran was the world's number 1 enemy. Let's not delude ourselves, if police in America can walk away scot free from shooting civilians then no one can stop America since "might = right".

[Senkaku]

Syrian Civil War 2.0, now with more refugees!

"cart, meet horse- you'll be going in front, and horse will be following along behind you"
"oh also should we count those eggs before we go"
"you mean those chickens?"

[Costa Fierro]

I have a pretty optimistic view about this one.

Why?

the last time something of this caliber happened in Iran it was the 2011 elections, and that was just the upper-lower and middle class talking.

A bunch of people died and nothing changed. I don't see anything changing here.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Well, the Iranian government has expressed a desire in the past to destroy the United States, currently supports numerous terrorist groups around the world, and, until recently, was attempting to create nuclear weapons - I would say that America has a vested interest in what these guys are doing.

How exactly can you be world police when you topple a regime that has a grudge against 1 specific country. I can't recall the last time the general assembly said Iran was the world's number 1 enemy. Let's not delude ourselves, if police in America can walk away scot free from shooting civilians then no one can stop America since "might = right".

... I'm sorry, when did I say topple a regime? You seem to believe that is the only action which prescribed to the role of world police. It's not. America can do plenty of things to neutralize Iran's many threatening capabilities. The sanctions a few years back did well to cripple Iran's economic power and would later lead them to the negotiating table. Providing Israel the Iron Dome would protect them from rockets fired by Iranian backed Hamas and various Shia Lebanese militant groups.

There are plenty of non-aggressive actions which the United States can ( and has ) taken to mitigate the dangers of hostile regimes.

[The Conez Imperium]

How exactly can you be world police when you topple a regime that has a grudge against 1 specific country. I can't recall the last time the general assembly said Iran was the world's number 1 enemy. Let's not delude ourselves, if police in America can walk away scot free from shooting civilians then no one can stop America since "might = right".

... I'm sorry, when did I say topple a regime? You seem to believe that is the only action which prescribed to the role of world police. It's not. America can do plenty of things to neutralize Iran's many threatening capabilities. The sanctions a few years back did well to cripple Iran's economic power and would later lead them to the negotiating table. Providing Israel the Iron Dome would protect them from rockets fired by Iranian backed Hamas and various Shia Lebanese militant groups.

There are plenty of non-aggressive actions which the United States can ( and has ) taken to mitigate the dangers of hostile regimes.

TBH, I was thinking of editing my response to make it less hyperbolic. Anyway I got the impression of military action since you listed exclusively military operations the US has done in the name of "world police".

Honestly this world police concept is such a farce. Police in real life are moderated by judges and the laws of the country, if you really want to be world police co-operate more closely with the security council and the UN. But let's no blur the line between world police and national interests.

[Kramania]

I have a pretty optimistic view about this one.

Why?

the last time something of this caliber happened in Iran it was the 2011 elections, and that was just the upper-lower and middle class talking.

A bunch of people died and nothing changed. I don't see anything changing here.

Because we didn't support them. As I recall Obama directed the CIA not to send aid to the protestors.

[Republic of the Cristo]

... I'm sorry, when did I say topple a regime? You seem to believe that is the only action which prescribed to the role of world police. It's not. America can do plenty of things to neutralize Iran's many threatening capabilities. The sanctions a few years back did well to cripple Iran's economic power and would later lead them to the negotiating table. Providing Israel the Iron Dome would protect them from rockets fired by Iranian backed Hamas and various Shia Lebanese militant groups.

There are plenty of non-aggressive actions which the United States can ( and has ) taken to mitigate the dangers of hostile regimes.

TBH, I was thinking of editing my response to make it less hyperbolic. Anyway I got the impression of military action since you listed exclusively military operations the US has done in the name of "world police".

Honestly this world police concept is such a farce. Police in real life are moderated by judges and the laws of the country, if you really want to be world police co-operate more closely with the security council and the UN. But let's no blur the line between world police and national interests.

The UN security council is unreliable, slow, and inefficient. Consider for a moment the constant conflict between the the US, France, and the UK with Russia and China. If any decision is not approved by said powers, it does not pass. What is more, often we have the accused nations sitting upon the council. When this is the case any action against them is impossible.

The purpose of the UN was to resolve conflicts, like a judge, but it has shown to be slow and inefficient in actually stopping conflicts. The United States has proven more than capable of exercising the necessary force to support it's authority and decisions. There can be no peace without order, and there cannot be order without the threat of violence ( authority ). The United States currently fills this role, and though it sometimes makes mistakes, the alternative is worse.

Instead of condemning the system itself and throwing it into the abyss to be replaced by a possibly worse option, we should look to reform it's actions. Campaign for closer cooperation with our allies, rethink intelligence and military stratagems, take the first step in repairing relationships with our enemies. Currently, America is the SWAT version of the world police, but through careful rethinking and execution of our role, we can be the Andy Griffith world police.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Why?



A bunch of people died and nothing changed. I don't see anything changing here.

Because we didn't support them. As I recall Obama directed the CIA not to send aid to the protestors.

Good call, the last time we supported the opposition we kinda SYRIA'ed all over the place.

[Major-Tom]

Overthrow the silly Islamic government plz

In a perfect world that would happen, but totally doubtable that it will happen if we are being realistic.

[Kramania]

Because we didn't support them. As I recall Obama directed the CIA not to send aid to the protestors.

Good call, the last time we supported the opposition we kinda SYRIA'ed all over the place.

We didn't start the Syrian Civil War. We just supported the wrong side.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Good call, the last time we supported the opposition we kinda SYRIA'ed all over the place.

We didn't start the Syrian Civil War. We just supported the wrong side.

We thought they were the good guys. Did we really know if those protesters were totally good guys?

[Kramania]

We didn't start the Syrian Civil War. We just supported the wrong side.

We thought they were the good guys. Did we really know if those protesters were totally good guys?

I'll take my chances. Pretty much anything would be better than the Islamonazi government they have. The Iranian people want democracy.

[Republic of the Cristo]

We thought they were the good guys. Did we really know if those protesters were totally good guys?

I'll take my chances. Pretty much anything would be better than the Islamonazi government they have. The Iranian people want democracy.

Islamonazi... what do you actually know about the Iranian government? I could imagine - A LOT WORSE.

[Kramania]

I'll take my chances. Pretty much anything would be better than the Islamonazi government they have. The Iranian people want democracy.

Islamonazi... what do you actually know about the Iranian government? I could imagine - A LOT WORSE.

I know it is vocally and violently antisemitic, and is the world's largest state-sponsor of terrorism.

I'm not really buying into your scaremongering. You haven't given me a logical reason yet to not want regime change other than "it could be worse".

[The Union of Crown Kingdoms]

Down with the islamofascist Iranian regime.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Islamonazi... what do you actually know about the Iranian government? I could imagine - A LOT WORSE.

I know it is vocally and violently antisemitic, and is the world's largest state-sponsor of terrorism.

I'm not really buying into your scaremongering. You haven't given me a logical reason yet to not want regime change other than "it could be worse".

Being antisemitic does not make one a nazi - like, every single country in Europe 150 years ago was antisemitic and you wouldn't call them nazis. National Socialism is an actual political ideology with set and defined doctrines, not just a fun word to slap onto anything or person you don't like.

What is more, the logic of not supporting the toppling of the Iranian regime is present in - LITERALLY THE REST OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND CENTRAL ASIA!


Topple Iraq - ISIS happens
Supports Syrian rebels - Al'qaeda get's free training and supplies to set up strong hold in Syria
Topple Libya - Complete balkanization and endless civil war
Topple Afghanistan - Taliban are about to just take it back over

We have done this song and dance before, and it ALWAYS ends bad. Can you name a single middle eastern dictator whom the US has toppled and it ended well for everyone?

[Trumptonium]

Down with Islamists, bring back Anglo-Persian Oil Company. We have a budget deficit to fix.

Though tbh I do hope they fall. Iran has been royally fucked by losing their monarchy. Not that the monarchy was the cause of Iran's relative lack of woes, but the theocratic government is a clusterfuck. Was much better when it was Soviet influenced than American tbh.

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company was the cause of the entire debacle, as well as the 1979 hostage crisis. Do we really want to have the entire disaster again?

It was fine for the first 60 years.

[The Lone Alliance]

And just when Iran's foreign policy has had such a succesful year...guess that the situation at home will always trump the situation abroad.

That might have been part of the problem, maybe the Iranian people are tired of them spending their money to nation build Syria and Iraq and now that the wars are being declared "Over" they're wanting them to start focusing all that time and effort on their own country again.

I know it is vocally and violently antisemitic, and is the world's largest state-sponsor of terrorism.

Not exactly they hate everything that has to do with Israel, except when Israel passively supports them like during the Iran\Iraq war, they're even one of the few nations in the middle east outside of Israel that allows a Jewish Minority to exist and hold political power. (As long as they don't disagree with hating Israel) as for the latter title it basically means "This nation is crazy enough to actually admit to giving money to terror groups", I'm sure if it came down to people who were secretly funding terror groups Iran isn't the worst culprit.

[Trumptonium]

We thought they were the good guys. Did we really know if those protesters were totally good guys?

I'll take my chances. Pretty much anything would be better than the Islamonazi government they have. The Iranian people want democracy.

Hypothetically, if a country voted in every election to impose autocracy, would you support an invasion every year to organise a return to democracy?

The good old American misguided policy of world-policism.

Both France and Poland have a liberty-around-the-world national ethos. Take our example: it doesn't work when you go gun blazing to enforce it.

It just makes people hate you. A lot.

Which, in America's case, is now far more than half the world.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Islamonazi

Islamonazi? Really?

[Pilarcraft]

Islamonazi

Islamonazi? Really?

I mean you can't deny that Iran's Islamic Republic isn't exactly the best example for "Le utopian Islamic caliphate"

[What R Ye Doin in Muh Swaomp]

Islamonazi is my new favourite insult now.

[Dahon]

Overthrow the silly Islamic government plz

In a perfect world that would happen, but totally doubtable that it will happen if we are being realistic.

And even if that gift horse comes to trot, what are the chances of a peaceful and stable aftermath?

I must say, though -- Trumpists and alt-rightists have been quick to seize on this and urge the protesters on. Mostly as a stick to prod the shitlibs with, but still.

[New Greater Netherlands]

I support the anti-government protestors