If there is a God, Why does Evil exist?

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Why not? Seems to me that if I knowingly fed babies powerful carcinogens, or watched them consume carcinogens and didn't interfere though I easily might, it would be fair to call me evil. The cancer that results is not itself evil, but it's the product of an evil will: my action or inaction. It would not have come about if I had been more benevolent.

God's creation of obstacles and trials was both moral and benevolent.

A life of invulnerable, eternal, irresponsibility would not do a person any good. There must be risks to overcome, there must be trials to face. This is how we excersize our humanity, how we grow and develop ourselves as moral, benevolent people. To deprive of us of such an opportunity would be immoral and malevolent, and therefore evil.

Does he face those trials? Apart from maybe one day in Jerusalem, entirely voluntary and comforted by the knowledge that he'd go right back to being omnipotent afterwards.

Seems like some rich man at his castle, poor man at his gate BS to me. Why couldn't he let everything enjoy the existence he does?

[Neutraligon]

Well technically, since God is omnipotent, he could've made us invulnerable, eternal, AND responsible. Or at least made us invulnerable, eternal, and happy.

You say there HAS to be risks to overcome, but that's just not true. He easily could've crafted a universe in which you learn lessons without pain.

And those hurdles you you think we should be thankful we have to hop over are hardly effective at helping us grow. If they were, the path to heaven would be the "wide road" and the path to damnation would be the "narrow road", which is the opposite of the bible says.

He could have donenthosenthings, at the expense of our autonomy. Which is more evil than any illness.

I will ask again, does free will exist in heaven?

[Deamonopolis]

Without evil, God would be impossible to make himself known. With the distinction between right and wrong, good and evil, human beings can distinguish between life choices. If there were no evil, we'd be in heaven or a pre-natural Garden of Eden circumstance: that is not life in the true sense. The real question should be: why did God allow Eve to eat the apple knowing what horrors it would unleash?

[Neutraligon]

Without evil, God would be impossible to make himself known.

Why do you say that?

With the distinction between right and wrong, good and evil, human beings can distinguish between life choices.

Why is good and evil necessary to distinguish between life choices? Why is a choice between good and good not possible? Why not a choice between good and neutral?

If there were no evil, we'd be in heaven or a pre-natural Garden of Eden circumstance: that is not life in the true sense.

This is a problem why? Also, I thought adam and Eve where in a perfect environment in the garden of eden, and they where most certainly alive.

The real question should be: why did God allow Eve to eat the apple knowing what horrors it would unleash?

There are a ton of real questions in that story that does not match with many of the descriptors current Christians claim about god. Why did god create the snake as it was, why did god allow the snake into the Garden, why did god make the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, why did god make this tree easily accessible and good to eat, why did god make it so that adam and eve could fall to temptation, these are just a few of the questions that can be asked?

[Washington Resistance Army]

There are a ton of real questions in that story that does not match with many of the descriptors current Christians claim about god. Why did god create the snake as it was, why did god allow the snake into the Garden, why did god make the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, why did god make this tree easily accessible and good to eat, why did god make it so that adam and eve could fall to temptation, these are just a few of the questions that can be asked?

Maybe the Gnostics had it right all along and the Garden was created by the Demiurge and the snake was God liberating humanity.

[Neutraligon]

There are a ton of real questions in that story that does not match with many of the descriptors current Christians claim about god. Why did god create the snake as it was, why did god allow the snake into the Garden, why did god make the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, why did god make this tree easily accessible and good to eat, why did god make it so that adam and eve could fall to temptation, these are just a few of the questions that can be asked?

Maybe the Gnostics had it right all along and the Garden was created by the Demiurge and the snake was God liberating humanity.

In which case the idea of original sin makes no sense.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Maybe the Gnostics had it right all along and the Garden was created by the Demiurge and the snake was God liberating humanity.

In which case the idea of original sin makes no sense.

I don't think the Gnostics believed in original sin as we understand it.

Shame all of them except the Mandaeans have died out and they don't really accept converts yet.

[Jerzylvania]

Evil exists because here in Bizzaro World evil is live spelled backwards.

[Genivaria]

In which case the idea of original sin makes no sense.

I don't think the Gnostics believed in original sin as we understand it.

Shame all of them except the Mandaeans have died out and they don't really accept converts yet.

What do you mean yet?

[Greater Victora]

Depends which "God". My God, the Catholic God, does not exist in the traditional sense (at least in my interpretation). My view is that in the Bible, God is the personification of the Universe/Existence itself. Long-story-short, "God" is incapable of stopping evil.

[Neanderthaland]

Depends which "God". My God, the Catholic God, does not exist in the traditional sense (at least in my interpretation). My view is that in the Bible, God is the personification of the Universe/Existence itself. Long-story-short, "God" is incapable of stopping evil.

Not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure your interpretation is heresy.

[Greater Victora]

Depends which "God". My God, the Catholic God, does not exist in the traditional sense (at least in my interpretation). My view is that in the Bible, God is the personification of the Universe/Existence itself. Long-story-short, "God" is incapable of stopping evil.

Not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure your interpretation is heresy.

At least that's what I was taught in my Catholic Theology class.

[Neanderthaland]

Not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure your interpretation is heresy.

At least that's what I was taught in my Catholic Theology class.

They taught you Pantheism is Catholic in Theology class?

[Genivaria]

Depends which "God". My God, the Catholic God, does not exist in the traditional sense (at least in my interpretation). My view is that in the Bible, God is the personification of the Universe/Existence itself. Long-story-short, "God" is incapable of stopping evil.

That does not sound like Catholicism.

[The Foxes Swamp]

all the crazy shit we have done and you want to blame what?

Those kids didn't do anything to anyone. Defending someone who tortures them to death is arguably the worst of the "crazy shit we have done."

bit of a stretch to think that a genetic mutation is evil and that my post is defending anything.

[Neanderthaland]

Those kids didn't do anything to anyone. Defending someone who tortures them to death is arguably the worst of the "crazy shit we have done."

bit of a stretch to think that a genetic mutation is evil and that my post is defending anything.

A genetic mutation is neutral. An omnipotent creator who causes said mutation knowing the suffering that will follow is evil.

[The Foxes Swamp]

bit of a stretch to think that a genetic mutation is evil and that my post is defending anything.

A genetic mutation is neutral. An omnipotent creator who causes said mutation knowing the suffering that will follow is evil.

thats a possibility but if there is god maybe it has its reasons or maybe it was all good until we started messing with shit or maybe something else entirely.

[Neanderthaland]

A genetic mutation is neutral. An omnipotent creator who causes said mutation knowing the suffering that will follow is evil.

thats a possibility but if there is god maybe it has its reasons or maybe it was all good until we started messing with shit or maybe something else entirely.

No, you're just bending over backwards for it.

A God which could do no better then the existence we have is either not an omnipotent God, or not a benevolent one.

[The Foxes Swamp]

thats a possibility but if there is god maybe it has its reasons or maybe it was all good until we started messing with shit or maybe something else entirely.

No, you're just bending over backwards for it.

A God which could do no better then the existence we have is either not an omnipotent God, or not a benevolent one.

your to funny what do you think i believe?

thats kinda off subject so if you don't want to be wrong here you can always send me a telegram.

[Neanderthaland]

No, you're just bending over backwards for it.

A God which could do no better then the existence we have is either not an omnipotent God, or not a benevolent one.

your to funny what do you think i believe?

thats kinda off subject so if you don't want to be wrong here you can always send me a telegram.

I surely don't care what you believe.

My view that you're bending over backwards is entirely based on how you, presented with a child being tortured to death, immediately went to, "well, maybe the torturer has a good reason."

[The Foxes Swamp]

your to funny what do you think i believe?

thats kinda off subject so if you don't want to be wrong here you can always send me a telegram.

I surely don't care what you believe.

My view that you're bending over backwards is entirely based on how you, presented with a child being tortured to death, immediately went to, "well, maybe the torturer has a good reason."

everything is perspective i mean you say cancer is evil, i say that cancer is nasty, terrible etc but cancer is alive so that makes it something that has a purpose.


and if there is a god wtf do any of us think we know about it.

[Connori Pilgrims]

bit of a stretch to think that a genetic mutation is evil and that my post is defending anything.

A genetic mutation is neutral. An omnipotent creator who causes said mutation knowing the suffering that will follow is evil.

Who says that God has to "cause" genetic mutations? Mutations are what they are, specific things that inevitably pop up as life continues to exist and move on, made possible by the tendency of life's genetic codes to come up with all kinds of shit. God could hardly "cause" them anymore than he "causes" people to go to war (inb4 religious wars), or carnivores to eat people.

The problem with how the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths relate to God is that they just assume that he just *has* to intervene in every little bit of their lives, as if we're naturally special snowflakes worthy of his attention. Consequently, when bad shit happens to us, you'll either have questions like what you've posed (why would God do/let this happen to meee.... I made my mistakes.... got nowhere to run), or turn to blind faith (its OK, its your will, whatever).

Perhaps it is a consequence of the obvious anthropocentric nature of the Abrahamic faiths - although pagan and other faiths are also guilty of such, being adhered to by human beings after all. It doesn't help that ultimately most people also assume God has motivations that we can readily understand. Even if that were generally true that he does care for us somehow, why would people expect God to "love" us the way humans "love"? Such a being, even if it did "love" us, is so far removed from human experience that quite frankly its love for us could well be Lovecraftian to some...

[Neanderthaland]

I surely don't care what you believe.

My view that you're bending over backwards is entirely based on how you, presented with a child being tortured to death, immediately went to, "well, maybe the torturer has a good reason."

everything is perspective i mean you say cancer is evil, i say that cancer is nasty, terrible etc but cancer is alive so that makes it something that has a purpose.

No it doesn't.

and if there is a god wtf do any of us think we know about it.

I'm not the one who came up with gods, and gave them all these traits. But since people invent gods and give them traits like "omnipotence," I can explore what the implications of that would be. If your god isn't omnipotent, or omniscient, or omnibenevolent, or a creator, well then obviously I'm not talking about your god.

But then, it's no mystery why evil might exist under that kind of god. The problem of evil only happens because people attribute to God characteristics that don't conform to observation.

[Neanderthaland]

A genetic mutation is neutral. An omnipotent creator who causes said mutation knowing the suffering that will follow is evil.

Who says that God has to "cause" genetic mutations? Mutations are what they are, specific things that inevitably pop up as life continues to exist and move on, made possible by the tendency of life's genetic codes to come up with all kinds of shit. God could hardly "cause" them anymore than he "causes" people to go to war (inb4 religious wars), or carnivores to eat people.

The problem with how the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths relate to God is that they just assume that he just *has* to intervene in every little bit of their lives, as if we're naturally special snowflakes worthy of his attention. Consequently, when bad shit happens to us, you'll either have questions like what you've posed (why would God do/let this happen to meee.... I made my mistakes.... got nowhere to run), or turn to blind faith (its OK, its your will, whatever).

Perhaps it is a consequence of the obvious anthropocentric nature of the Abrahamic faiths - although pagan and other faiths are also guilty of such, being adhered to by human beings after all. It doesn't help that ultimately most people also assume God has motivations that we can readily understand. Even if that were generally true that he does care for us somehow, why would people expect God to "love" us the way humans "love"? Such a being, even if it did "love" us, is so far removed from human experience that quite frankly its love for us could well be Lovecraftian to some...

If there is an omnipotent, omniscient, creator, then there is no way to argue that they didn't "cause" genetic mutations. Being omniscient, they would have known that they would happen. Being omnipotent, they could have changed them.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

thats a possibility but if there is god maybe it has its reasons or maybe it was all good until we started messing with shit or maybe something else entirely.

No, you're just bending over backwards for it.

A God which could do no better then the existence we have is either not an omnipotent God, or not a benevolent one.

Gnostics would actually agree with you, making the distinction between the true transcendental, unknowable and supreme divine and Demiurge, an inferior creator deity, the imperfect god of the material universe.

The Gnostic Demiurge is itself a created being, the flawed creation of Sophia, itself an aspect of the Pleroma, or Divine Absolute. Being created without the approval of the Divine, the Demiurge was hidden away by it's creator in a reality of it's own, never witnessing it's creator or other aspects of the Divine and the higher reality. Consequently, it would conclude it was the supreme being itself and proceeded to create the material universe itself. Needless to say, being an inferior and imperfect being, the Demiurge could only produce even more inferior and flawed creations - despite having an unconscious knowledge of the forms of existence in the higher levels of reality, Demiurge could only reproduce them to the same effect a man born blind could paint based on verbal instructions.

Long story short, Gnostic philosophy solves the problem of evil by accepting that the being we call God is not benevolent. As far as the material universe is concerned, the Demiurge is indeed omnipotent within it, the universe being the product of his will. However, being a created being itself, the Demiurge and all of its creation are themselves imperfect.

So according to Gnostics, the existence of evil is the result of these imperfections, further aggravated by the schemes of Demiurge and his lieutenants the Archons to deny Mankind an escape from materiality by binding them to it and all the imperfection and inferiority that it entails. Demiurge and the Archons lack the soul that humans possess, and are profoundly envious of it. They are keen to keep souls trapped within their material universe forever, preferably have them remain ignorant of the supreme reality entirely.